UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think I must be thinking of a different programme. . I'm sceptical about the GU canal sighting.

Paul Dettman, Crime Guy has the deposition site as the Thames. And why not the Thames? Or the waterworks on the other side of the river? Or the water south of Reading en route to Bristol alongside the M4?

He could've dumped her anywhere, with or without water. Assuming he had transport.

One thing I can't imagine him doing is digging holes in which to bury a body, or lugging suitcases about. Psychological games, yes.

They put frogmen in Thames at various points at time & considered drift over time etc but obvs impossible to totally check. How many bodies are undiscovered in Thames?

 

[WestLondoner]

Paul Dettman, Crime Guy has the deposition site as the Thames. And why not the Thames?

They put frogmen in Thames at various points at time & considered drift over time etc but obvs impossible to totally check. How many bodies are undiscovered in Thames?

Let's not forget how long it took to find the body of Nicola Bulley 3 years ago. In a much smaller stretch of water, heavily searched, it took nearly 3 weeks.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

What's particularly odd about the police essentially dismissing the Brentford canal sighting as a viable deposition site for SL, is that the location of Gallows Bridge is situated south of the lock where the GUC meets the river Brent.

In other words, the section of waterway in which the man claimed to have witnessed JC dumping a suitcase, forms part of the River Brent and not actually the Canal which connects with the river further north.

So, if the case was dumped in the River, then it may have acted differently in terms of currents and depth.

Did the police do a thorough enough job to search for SL in the river Brent?


The river feeds into the Thames further south.

What's also interesting, is that Gallows bridge is easily accessed via the A4 road, which joins the Fulham Palace Road further east.

So it may be possible that after JC took SL to a lock up/empty flat etc..., he then killed her and shoved her into a suitcase, and then drove her north up Fulham Palace road, turned left onto the A4, but instead of joining the M4 motorway, he stayed on the A4, and then took the side road, parked up, and then quickly accessed the river Brent close to the Gallows bridge, by walking along the grand union canal walkway.

He could then run back up to the side road, and then turn directly back onto the A4.

Just a theory of course

Ah, it might have been you who posted this detail before. Thank you! Very helpful.

The problem was this canal data only came to light so much later on & not in JD’s time. It might fit with where BW last saw fiesta heading but not with any Stevenage Rd fight etc (?)

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Let's not forget how long it took to find the body of Nicola Bulley 3 years ago. In a much smaller stretch of water, heavily searched, it took nearly 3 weeks.

That’s a good point, although doesn’t the expert say he saw her body initially? Irrelevant as, as you say took a while AND with much better tech!

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think, if JC, both SB and SL went willingly initially. SB knew of JC so plausible. Also, SB had free run of his sitting room. Her print/s on his (rather alarming) papers. That’s vanishingly unlikely if an abducted prisoner.

I think the call might have been SL to pub in similar way SB called in to work. I think this call might have caused DV to suspect KH (& poss wife) & formed part of his ‘dossier of evidence’. Something doesn’t add up. Happened about 2pm.

The timing of call, before SL escalation/reported missing & greatly troubled police. ‘Uneasy feeling’ AS.

IF it was SL why the pub? And why the call from the ‘policeman’ ‘that wasn’t a policeman’ (as JD said)? Afterwards. A number was given and taken down by KH if we isolate that…(?)

All I can think is SL must have mentioned going to pub to JC. Why not call in to Sturgis if not?

Keeping it very simple maybe SL asking landlord to call Sarah on her number she gave. Maybe if via Sturgis JC spot her ruse.

If SL could she have been trying to get a message to best friend ‘Sarah’ to intervene on her behalf somehow? Easier ways if so.

IF SL to pub, she went off script & JC felt he had to follow up. All details then imperfectly recorded by KH. I would usually dismiss as a total leap…

NB: below from DV’s Finding Suzy.

 

[Konstantin]

Her print/s on his (rather alarming) papers.

Unless she was a captive and he was ranting, here look at this. Look what I had to do. Look what she made me do.

Maybe SL did try to call Sturgis and no one answered. So she thought on her feet and mentioned the pub as a way to try to raise the alarm somehow but failed. But the calls were made before she was reported missing that afternoon, not particularly late afternoon and if her she'd have to have been in a premises with a telephone to make them.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Wasn’t husband deaf (?) will look back..,

He said ‘COW!’ to her when she looked at lights which is very

Let's not forget how long it took to find the body of Nicola Bulley 3 years ago. In a much smaller stretch of water, heavily searched, it took nearly 3 w

That’s a good point, although doesn’t the expert say he saw her body initially? Irrelevant as, as you say took a while AND with much better tech!

...and the police knew what they were looking for; it was just a matter of time before Nicola surfaced. They knew she hadn't left the area. Annoying for the investigation that the "expert" muddied the waters (so to speak) giving hope to the family.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Unless she was a captive and he was ranting, here look at this. Look what I had to do. Look what she made me do.

Maybe SL did try to call Sturgis and no one answered. So she thought on her feet and mentioned the pub as a way to try to raise the alarm somehow but failed. But the calls were made before she was reported missing that afternoon, not particularly late afternoon and if her she'd have to have been in a premises with a telephone to make them.

The row in Stevenage near a phone box potentially - the barrier & the football club & one near Finlay. Another near Langthorne (sp)? I did have a look in past but def by club.

I imagine KR would have been manning phones at Sturgis.

SB would have to have opened his chest in sitting room & I think as knew him points to freedom to roam (?) but you may well be right. If JC directed yes - would SB touch the docs though? Can imagine him ranting over her as you describe. It does point still to a happy lift & social drink gone very wrong IMO.

 

[rvlvr]

Why he would choose NB as to some other site I do not know. I can only assume this tip off they received via the phone call to DL in early Nov 99 was significant enough to to warrant the searches.

The issue is that the tip was a load of nonsense, as established by DV’s research.

There’s too much to copy and paste, but in summation (chapters 46-47) Diana’s tipster was Graham McGredy-Hunt, author of the book Searching for Suzy. In late 1999 he spoke to Diana and “shared his theory … about who he thought had killed Suzy and where he thought Suzy’s body was concealed”. Diana then spoke to police, before courting the media, and claiming that her source was someone from “the prison education system”.

Which all must’ve sounded very interesting at the time, though we now know a few important facts. It’s true that GMH had spent some time “running evening classes for prospective prison staff at the Prison Service College” but despite the implication he’d never had anything to do with actual prisoners. Worse than that though, is that GMH’s theory - his “fanatical belief”, as DV put it - was that Suzy’s killers were Fred West and his younger brother John. West, a brand of tuna… fish… kipper, get it? No, me neither. He thought Fred had once done some building work at Norton Barracks and buried Suzy there. He’d never suggested Cannan had anything to do with Suzy’s disappearance.

GMH apparently showed DV letters he’d received from police thanking him for “agreeing not to speak to the press”. As DV argued (convincingly imo), it’s “hard not to interpret [this] as a deliberate attempt to cover up and play along with Diana in her deliberate attempt to weaponise the press against John Cannan.”

The NB thing is almost certainly a dead end, and more evidence that DL’s interference in Suzy’s case unfortunately did more harm than good.

 

[Konstantin]

The row in Stevenage near a phone box potentially - the barrier & the football club & one near Finlay. Another near Langthorne (sp)? I did have a look in past but def by club.

I imagine KR would have been manning phones at Sturgis.

SB would have to have opened his chest in sitting room & I think as knew him points to freedom to roam (?) but you may well be right. If JC directed yes - would SB touch the docs though? Can imagine him ranting over her as you describe. It does point still to a happy lift & social drink gone very wrong IMO.

I agree re SB. The scenario makes much more sense if she went willingly there. She might have known him to say a few words to and probably knew by sight so why would she fear him?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I agree re SB. The scenario makes much more sense if she went willingly there. She might have known him to say a few words to and probably knew by sight so why would she fear him?

Yes.,There is reasonable evidence. that’s exactly how she knew him & her husband knew him by sight.

 

[Konstantin]

Yes.,There is reasonable evidence. that’s exactly how she knew him & her husband knew him by sight.

It was rather different from his other attacks because he kept her prisoner overnight. How did he keep her quiet and from trying to escape?

If he knew her, maybe got angry with her and "turned" and kept her prisoner, is that what happened with SL? If so where on earth did he take her? Can't have been that far from Stevenage road, surely?

 

[lee sumner]

They put frogmen in Thames at various points at time & considered drift over time etc but obvs impossible to totally check. How many bodies are undiscovered in Thames?

they said if SL had been thrown in the thames, she would wash up in wapping.

 

[lee sumner]

That’s a good point, although doesn’t the expert say he saw her body initially? Irrelevant as, as you say took a while AND with much better tech!

did bulley commit suicide.

 

[Eastend Eagle]

I think, if JC, both SB and SL went willingly initially. SB knew of JC so plausible. Also, SB had free run of his sitting room. Her print/s on his (rather alarming) papers. That’s vanishingly unlikely if an abducted prisoner.

I think the call might have been SL to pub in similar way SB called in to work. I think this call might have caused DV to suspect KH (& poss wife) & formed part of his ‘dossier of evidence’. Something doesn’t add up. Happened about 2pm.

The timing of call, before SL escalation/reported missing & greatly troubled police. ‘Uneasy feeling’ AS.

IF it was SL why the pub? And why the call from the ‘policeman’ ‘that wasn’t a policeman’ (as JD said)? Afterwards. A number was given and taken down by KH if we isolate that…(?)

All I can think is SL must have mentioned going to pub to JC. Why not call in to Sturgis if not?

Keeping it very simple maybe SL asking landlord to call Sarah on her number she gave. Maybe if via Sturgis JC spot her ruse.

If SL could she have been trying to get a message to best friend ‘Sarah’ to intervene on her behalf somehow? Easier ways if so.

IF SL to pub, she went off script & JC felt he had to follow up. All details then imperfectly recorded by KH. I would usually dismiss as a total leap…

NB: below from DV’s Finding Suzy.

Maybe it WAS Sarah who made the call to the pub and maybe she lifted SJL's belongings during the Worthing trip the day before? IMO

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

It was rather different from his other attacks because he kept her prisoner overnight. How did he keep her quiet and from trying to escape?

If he knew her, maybe got angry with her and "turned" and kept her prisoner, is that what happened with SL? If so where on earth did he take her? Can't have been that far from Stevenage road, surely?

IMO it likely started well. NB: Amelia H episode upthread - she seemed to make a run for it on Fri. It might be, hard as it is to say, she stayed willingly even as some problems in marriage apparently despite being newly wed. RB took time to worry & report missing.

A taxi was possibly called. As you say how to restrain etc quietly. He had practice.

An hour approx before Amelia H saw the beating episode in the wood on Fri - ‘I told you what I would do’ - he oddly asked to borrow Val’s vacuum cleaner (upstairs) did SB make a break for it then? Prob not as would have raised alarm more easily.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

It was rather different from his other attacks because he kept her prisoner overnight. How did he keep her quiet and from trying to escape?

If he knew her, maybe got angry with her and "turned" and kept her prisoner, is that what happened with SL? If so where on earth did he take her? Can't have been that far from Stevenage road, surely?

He had enough £ to rent somewhere for a few days or use Taggarts lock up. He had lock up type keys - unidentified - in his possession in 87. Keys too for GP hotel trysts.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

did bulley commit suicide.

Slipped in, supposedly.

 

[kes1972]

Yes - she was going away with a man but she cancelled at last minute - if article I found accurate. At the last minute we have her headed to Wales with her cousins & family instead.

We all know JC’s MO if rejected.

Do you know where in wales?

 

[kes1972]

I think, if JC, both SB and SL went willingly initially. SB knew of JC so plausible. Also, SB had free run of his sitting room. Her print/s on his (rather alarming) papers. That’s vanishingly unlikely if an abducted prisoner.

I think the call might have been SL to pub in similar way SB called in to work. I think this call might have caused DV to suspect KH (& poss wife) & formed part of his ‘dossier of evidence’. Something doesn’t add up. Happened about 2pm.

The timing of call, before SL escalation/reported missing & greatly troubled police. ‘Uneasy feeling’ AS.

IF it was SL why the pub? And why the call from the ‘policeman’ ‘that wasn’t a policeman’ (as JD said)? Afterwards. A number was given and taken down by KH if we isolate that…(?)

All I can think is SL must have mentioned going to pub to JC. Why not call in to Sturgis if not?

Keeping it very simple maybe SL asking landlord to call Sarah on her number she gave. Maybe if via Sturgis JC spot her ruse.

If SL could she have been trying to get a message to best friend ‘Sarah’ to intervene on her behalf somehow? Easier ways if so.

IF SL to pub, she went off script & JC felt he had to follow up. All details then imperfectly recorded by KH. I would usually dismiss as a total leap…

NB: below from DV’s Finding Suzy.

I think if they had met somewhere (some house) then sl may have mentioned having to go to pow, so then jc may have already killed her and placed the call to maybe buy some time, i could imagine sl being in the situation and thought mentioning the expected collection may have got her out of the situation, bit of a stretch but as valid as anything so a house in use with landline available to use fairly close or in fulham