UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[GTB72]

I think this "kipper" explanation makes far more sense than the Kipper Tie one. Sounds plausible, even if Taggart is telling porkies.

The screenshot below is from the original Crimewatch reconstruction helpfully uploaded by Rookie D further up thread.

You will see what looks like a Red Sierra parked across from the Fiesta.

The Police weren't aware until later that JC had access to a Red Sierra so it is a pretty strange co-incidence to have one in the reconstruction.

Or is it?

 

[GTB72]

The screenshot below is from the original Crimewatch reconstruction helpfully uploaded by Rookie D further up thread.

You will see what looks like a Red Sierra parked across from the Fiesta.

The Police weren't aware until later that JC had access to a Red Sierra so it is a pretty strange co-incidence to have one in the reconstruction.

Or is it?

On the Wikipedia page of John Cannan it states that a Pay and Display ticket puts him in Bournemouth on the day Sandra Court was killed.

It also states that two hairs belonging to Court were found in the Red Sierra but a prosecution was never brought.

It goes on to state that DNA of SJL was found in the Red Sierra but the CPS felt they didn't have enough evidence to proceed.

The criminologist who corresponded with Cannan alerted the Police to the Red Sierra in question according to Wiki.

I realise Wikipedia can't be fully trusted as a source since multiple people can edit it but can anyone on here shed light on who the criminologist is and whether they have came across this info from more reliable sources?

 

[lee sumner]

If you read the AS book on SJL towards the end of the book the Detectives give their pet theories on what they suspect happened.

Suzy has met Mr Kipper outside 37.
He has somehow managed to persuade her to let him drive her car.
He duly adjusts the drivers seat and drives to Stevenage Road where he kills her.
He then transfers her into his car and drives away.

i dont believe lamplugh was ever on stevenage rd. i think the car was ditched there later on the 28/july/1986.

 

[lee sumner]

The screenshot below is from the original Crimewatch reconstruction helpfully uploaded by Rookie D further up thread.

You will see what looks like a Red Sierra parked across from the Fiesta.

The Police weren't aware until later that JC had access to a Red Sierra so it is a pretty strange co-incidence to have one in the reconstruction.

Or is it?

sierra cars were everywhere in the 1980s.

 

[lee sumner]

If you read the AS book on SJL towards the end of the book the Detectives give their pet theories on what they suspect happened.

Suzy has met Mr Kipper outside 37.
He has somehow managed to persuade her to let him drive her car.
He duly adjusts the drivers seat and drives to Stevenage Road where he kills her.
He then transfers her into his car and drives away.

there is no way mr kipper managed to bundle SL into a car on stevenage rd in broad daylight without a single witness watching it go down.

 

[GTB72]

there is no way mr kipper managed to bundle SL into a car on stevenage rd in broad daylight without a single witness watching it go down.

Well if you read AS 'book that's what the Detectives think. If you haven't already read it then it's well worth reading.

 

[Rookie D]

This Red Ford Sierra (possibly a Ford Escort) is outside 127 Stevenage Road.

What's interesting about this photo, is that there appears to be a "For Sale" sign outside 123 Stevenage Road.

But that's NOT a Sturgis sign.

So that would suggest that 123 Stevenage Road; which was a Sturgis property, didn't stay a Sturgis property for long after the disappearance of SL.

Is that at all significant?

In terms of this photo, it seems it was taken by someone standing on the road outside 133 Stevenage Road, which is the last house before the side road that leads to the Thames river.

Is there any chance whatsoever, that the red car in this photo, may have belonged to the man who abducted SL, and could she have been forced into a building very close to this location?

Intriguing.

 

[lee sumner]

Well if you read AS 'book that's what the Detectives think. If you haven't already read it then it's well worth reading.

i have a copy. i do rate AS book.

 

[GTB72]

i have a copy. i do rate AS book.

Unfortunately, the paperback copy on Amazon was too expensive so I read it online. I agree I found it to be very good.

 

[rvlvr]

View attachment 650711

This Red Ford Sierra (possibly a Ford Escort) is outside 127 Stevenage Road.

What's interesting about this photo, is that there appears to be a "For Sale" sign outside 123 Stevenage Road.

But that's NOT a Sturgis sign.

So that would suggest that 123 Stevenage Road; which was a Sturgis property, didn't stay a Sturgis property for long after the disappearance of SL.

Is that at all significant?

In terms of this photo, it seems it was taken by someone standing on the road outside 133 Stevenage Road, which is the last house before the side road that leads to the Thames river.

Is there any chance whatsoever, that the red car in this photo, may have belonged to the man who abducted SL, and could she have been forced into a building very close to this location?

Intriguing.

Does seem quite extraordinary that here we have a red Sierra (and it looks like one to me, my dad had a red Escort around that time and from memory it looked different to Sierras from behind), and also there’s a BMW similar to one that might be linked to this case sitting outside Sturgis during the reconstruction? Could obviously just be coincidence, but those are some great spots!

 

[lee sumner]

Unfortunately, the paperback copy on Amazon was too expensive so I read it online. I agree I found it to be very good.

what is your theory on what happened to lamplugh.

 

[lee sumner]

View attachment 650711

This Red Ford Sierra (possibly a Ford Escort) is outside 127 Stevenage Road.

What's interesting about this photo, is that there appears to be a "For Sale" sign outside 123 Stevenage Road.

But that's NOT a Sturgis sign.

So that would suggest that 123 Stevenage Road; which was a Sturgis property, didn't stay a Sturgis property for long after the disappearance of SL.

Is that at all significant?

In terms of this photo, it seems it was taken by someone standing on the road outside 133 Stevenage Road, which is the last house before the side road that leads to the Thames river.

Is there any chance whatsoever, that the red car in this photo, may have belonged to the man who abducted SL, and could she have been forced into a building very close to this location?

Intriguing.

i think this photo is from oct 1986, when crimewatch aired the reconstruction.

 

[lee sumner]

Everyone assumes it was them & yes that’s quite logical. DV is right though it was a presumption. The police wanted witnesses but did they eliminate everyone legitimately in the proximity that day? Showing properties or otherwise (?)

I don’t think anyone disputes HR saying what he saw through the window. The facts are he couldn’t & didn’t know if he saw SL. He didn’t see her face. Also her fairness & blondeness not stand out. Very subtle.

the facts are he seen a man and a woman. a couple. that is compelling enough for me.

 

[GTB72]

what is your theory on what happened to lamplugh.

I'm honestly not sure. I find it a bit difficult to believe that she could have been bundled into a car on Stevenage Road without being seen as well, but what if they drive to Stevenage Road and he suggests walking over to his car(if his car exists on the road) then once she is inside quickly putting her into a strangulation hold, killing her then driving away.

Alternatively, they could have driven somewhere in the Fiesta, he then kills her elsewhere and drives the Fiesta back to where it is found on Stevenage Road.

The 1st option is what happened, Imo, but you can't rule anything out or in.

 

[GTB72]

the facts are he seen a man and a woman. a couple. that is compelling enough for me.

Indeed. 37 Shorrolds Road and the name Mr Kipper was in her diary and as per the Crimewatch reconstruction another witness, I think called Henry Doyle saw them and said the man was holding a bottle of champagne with a ribbon round it. It would have to be a strange quirk of fate for it not to be SJL and Mr Kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

BBM. Even senior detectives are capable of making the most basic mistakes.

George Oldfield and Dick Holland on the Yorkshire Ripper investigation leaps to mind.

oldfield and holland were terrible investigators. they should have hanged there heads in shame. there mistakes were not basic errors, they derailed the case big time. looking for a geordie instead of a man from yorkshire/bradford area. 2 survivors, olive and tracy spoke to sutcliffe before they were attacked, and both told oldfied he was a yorkshireman, but he chose to ignore them wanting to believe his enemy/the ripper was reaching out to him in a personal way through the wearside jack tapes. appalling detective work. sorry about ranting and raving, its just you named oldfield and holland, and they both make me so angry.

 

[GTB72]

The Crimewatch SJL reconstruction of SJL if anyone wants to refresh their memory.

 

[lee sumner]

Indeed. 37 Shorrolds Road and the name Mr Kipper was in her diary and as per the Crimewatch reconstruction another witness, I think called Henry Doyle saw them and said the man was holding a bottle of champagne with a ribbon round it. It would have to be a strange quirk of fate for it not to be SJL and Mr Kipper.

nicky doyle, witness, and yes, it had to have been SL and mr kipper.

 

[GTB72]

oldfield and holland were terrible investigators. they should have hanged there heads in shame. there mistakes were not basic errors, they derailed the case big time. looking for a geordie instead of a man from yorkshire/bradford area. 2 survivors, olive and tracy spoke to sutcliffe before they were attacked, and both told oldfied he was a yorkshireman, but he chose to ignore them wanting to believe his enemy/the ripper was reaching out to him in a personal way through the wearside jack tapes. appalling detective work. sorry about ranting and raving, its just you named oldfield and holland, and they both make me so angry.

Detective Andrew Laptew actually went to Dick Holland and showed him Tracey Browne and others photo fits and told him he had just recently spoken to Sutcliffe and said he was a genuine suspect yet Holland acted like Billy Big balls, excoriated him and threatened him with the sack.

I take your point though that that is more arrogance than a genuine mistake though.

 

[GTB72]

nicky doyle, witness, and yes, it had to have been SL and mr kipper.

Nicky Doyle, yes. I don't know where I got Henry from. Time for bed I think.