UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[Konstantin]

We have RT saying he saw a BMW - it was navy blue -in Shorrolds Rd

The article said the superhire ones were blue. This is probably indeed why JD so confident. It's definitely interesting. But what then is the sequence with the cars. Did she drive to Stevenage and he drove her up to Shorrolds? But how did they end up back in the fiesta later? He drives them back to Stevenage, they go to lunch in the fiesta?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Agreed. I’ve thought this for a very long time. DL while well intentioned was a hindrance right from the off imo. Behaved incredibly savvily at times, but at what cost?



Indeed. But also I find it curious that right from the off it’s being suggested by those who knew Suzy that this story was more than mere ‘man posing as house-buyer abducts estate agent’. Take NB, who says: “I feel sure that the man must have met Susie sometime before abducting her.” While in a separate story her friends were said to be compiling lists of guests at recent parties, in case ‘Kipper’ had been in attendance. Perhaps imaginations were simply going into overdrive in those early, frenetic days, but it suggests to me the flatmate and friends had reason to suspect this was more than a simple house viewing gone wrong. There was evidently a lot going on in this woman’s life and I’d be surprised if her nearest and dearest even knew the half of it.

Unfortunately AS did know the half of it - I see him as a bit of an Andrew Lownie of his time. I come back to the ‘contacts’ & the ‘calls’ to flat NB flagged & SL’s ex flatmate - from ‘another group of friends’. These needed to be bottomed out - AL saw it as ‘muck raking’.

 

[WestLondoner]

On JD saying JC had access to a BMW in July 86, was this via the hire firm that is flagged in article upthread? It said JC worked there part time & had access to BMWs!

This is astonishing if true. I've never heard of JC having a job at a car hire, firm, only a prop hire firm.

The article said the superhire ones were blue. This is probably indeed why JD so confident.

Are we sure Superhire also hired cars? Their website says they've been in the business of hiring out furniture, art, plants etc as props for 50 years. Cars aren't mentioned. If not, where did JC get the time to hold down two part-time jobs while on day release?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

This is astonishing if true. I've never heard of JC having a job at a car hire, firm, only a prop hire firm.

Are we sure Superhire also hired cars? Their website says they've been in the business of hiring out furniture, art, plants etc as props for 50 years. Cars aren't mentioned. If not, where did JC get the time to hold down two part-time jobs while on day release?

Quite, but they were taking all the forensics very seriously & checking time sheets. The car hire firm not named. If article accurate…Wow!

All the best evidence for JC seems to get lost ironically & the frankly ridiculous flagged.

 

[Konstantin]

This is astonishing if true. I've never heard of JC having a job at a car hire, firm, only a prop hire firm.

Are we sure Superhire also hired cars? Their website says they've been in the business of hiring out furniture, art, plants etc as props for 50 years. Cars aren't mentioned. If not, where did JC get the time to hold down two part-time jobs while on day release?

I thought it meant the prop hire firm had cars. I was astonished because I hadn't heard that before

 

[WestLondoner]

I thought it meant the prop hire firm had cars. I was astonished because I hadn't heard that before

Ditto. I suspect a crossing of lines somewhere.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I thought it meant the prop hire firm had cars. I was astonished because I hadn't heard that before

Right no, a separate hire company.

Interestingly, CBD in Prime Suspect says JC was fired from Prop hire company at some point which doesn’t fit re: DV research & JC’s various buddies interviewed in docs from the company. It might be poss he had a break & went there to car hire firm or had very brief stint or flirtation with it.

He’d written to the Jack Barclay showroom in Mayfair after a job from the scrubs & to other prestige dealerships. He made things up too on his CV & lies of omission.

 

[kes1972]

Cannan was still using that car when he was nicked, so the connection was easily made.

The thing is, as LSW has noted, there's no evidence he was using a BMW at all in July 1986. JD has asserted that he is "personally confident that Cannan had access to a BMW" at that time. Whatever weight you attach to that, it's only relevant if you assume Cannan was the driver of the BMW that the jogger saw. If so, then you need to make the evidence fit the hypothesis by showing he had a BMW. And suddenly JD is convinced he had a BMW.

My concern is that had someone looking like SJL screaming / laughing been seen in the Noddy car, JC would have been fitted up with having owned one of those instead. His supposed 1986 BMW was registered to someone somewhere - why was it never identified if it existed?

Strange to think after all these years people are still trying to connect jc to this, the only facts are pow had her personal items and had spoken to her that day, need i say more.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Strange to think after all these years people are still trying to connect jc to this, the only facts are pow had her personal items and had spoken to her that day, need i say more.

I think JC’s 5 nights in wilderness - no solid alibi - one big issue. His sister & own brother & nephew all certain, totally certain of his guilt. Yet, he later used them as posthumous alibis. Convenient. His nephew, still alive, still certain of JC’s guilt. Someone he said saw him in Birmingham in timeframe says otherwise etc.

SA - a very respected DI - interviewing too - really thought all too coincidental until he too, was totally convinced. Why?

Barley certain he confessed & he was there, party to more, we weren’t.

Looping in mini driver as SL’s killer too when on ropes in interview. Not showboating here.

Denying he knew where Fulham was & saying he’d never been. Seems unlikely. Yet adamant.

If it turns out he ever moonlit in a hire car place in Fulham at right time & had access to BMWs…Article upthread suggests he was.

If it’s ever solidly proven he went to the POW or Croc Tears as has been said - I doubt it personally. Especially POW.

Why the police didn’t track his financial/bank records I don’t know - perhaps they did but inconclusive. His cash withdrawals helped convict him for DT rape & SB murder.

Mystery deal/business partner? He had the £ to be convincing in short term & form with AR.

Being seen looking into E Agent window & dropped off in a taxi at Shorrolds - no proof.

Car plates on SB mini leave me less than convinced - others are.

In that Doc ‘The Man Who Killed SL’ an ‘uptown girl called Su Su’ is mentioned by Superhire buddy - AL - there’s an article I found on her/a reference - NOT SL as suggested.

Also, SL’s DNA was not proven in any way to be in the red sierra.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

On Superhire…weird burst of criminal activity only when JC was there, netting ££ for thieves!

Will you find reports of other break ins in other years in 80s outside of JC time? No.

JC might have been setting himself up quite nicely as wealthy property speculator.

18 July 1986 thieves/thief went on a spree. 18 July 1986 - week before JC left - last hurrah? - Letting off all fire extinguishers & stealing ££ tools.

13 June 86 - in run up to local Arabia huge exhibition where someone unknown took SL on a private preview - someone made off with “an unexpected haul of - 10k’s worth - of Persian rugs”.

 

[rvlvr]

Right no, a separate hire company.

Interestingly, CBD in Prime Suspect says JC was fired from Prop hire company at some point which doesn’t fit re: DV research & JC’s various buddies interviewed in docs from the company. It might be poss he had a break & went there to car hire firm or had very brief stint or flirtation with it.

He’d written to the Jack Barclay showroom in Mayfair after a job from the scrubs & to other prestige dealerships. He made things up too on his CV & lies of omission.

Seems very difficult to believe he was somehow working a second job while on day release from prison, a job that gave him access to vehicles that could be used to fit this case, and this hasn’t been shouted from the rooftops for the past couple of decades, in all honesty.

Even if Superhire had vehicles, I’m not sure how Cannan would’ve accessed one of them on the Monday, after his employment had finished - according to DV’s research JC receives a reference letter from Superhire on the Friday.

In many ways the most believable bit of Barley’s performance on the TC podcast concerned the Bristol train ticket. Given JC’s apparent obsession with his solicitor the idea he follows her there at the earliest opportunity makes perfect sense. The problem is that, geographically, putting him in Bristol instead of Birmingham, doesn’t help much! Without any evidence placing Cannan in London on the Monday it’s all moot, really. I do get what you’re saying about bank records and the like but I suspect it’s more likely that they *did* check them and simply came away empty-handed, than they didn’t.

 

[kes1972]

I thought it meant the prop hire firm had cars. I was astonished because I hadn't heard that

I think Cannan may have chosen Foye House, Leigh Woods, in Bristol, because it was a just a stone's throw from the location where another murder victim from 1984; Shelley Morgan, was alleged to have gone to and from where she was abducted and murdered; her remains later being found in Backwell.

Cannan was in prison at the time of Shelley's murder, but it may be that Cannan deliberately wanted to get a flat close the site where another killer had previously operated.

That's just my opinion of

On Superhire…weird burst of criminal activity only when JC was there, netting ££ for thieves!

Will you find reports of other break ins in other years in 80s outside of JC time? No.

JC might have been setting himself up quite nicely as wealthy property speculator.

18 July 1986 thieves/thief went on a spree. 18 July 1986 - week before JC left - last hurrah? - Letting off all fire extinguishers & stealing ££ tools.

13 June 86 - in run up to local Arabia huge exhibition where someone unknown took SL on a private preview - someone made off with “an unexpected haul of - 10k’s worth - of Persian rugs”.

It does tie in with bw sighting, heading in acton direction, just wish we mnew where his lockup was

 

[kes1972]

Seems very difficult to believe he was somehow working a second job while on day release from prison, a job that gave him access to vehicles that could be used to fit this case, and this hasn’t been shouted from the rooftops for the past couple of decades, in all honesty.

Even if Superhire had vehicles, I’m not sure how Cannan would’ve accessed one of them on the Monday, after his employment had finished - according to DV’s research JC receives a reference letter from Superhire on the Friday.

In many ways the most believable bit of Barley’s performance on the TC podcast concerned the Bristol train ticket. Given JC’s apparent obsession with his solicitor the idea he follows her there at the earliest opportunity makes perfect sense. The problem is that, geographically, putting him in Bristol instead of Birmingham, doesn’t help much! Without any evidence placing Cannan in London on the Monday it’s all moot, really. I do get what you’re saying about bank records and the like but I suspect it’s more likely that they *did* check them and simply came away empty-handed, than they didn’t.

My thinking is ar gave jc ticket as proof of travel moo

 

[Klclevi]

Hi all

Wow you guys have been full on the last couple of days . Some great posts in here.

AR has been reported as being a 'shell of a woman' after the trial where she had to give evidence, and was I think admitted to a facility because of her mental health. It is entirely possible she bought him the train ticket when you think about it.

MB did not answer ANY of our questions in any detail.I will not comment further about that here. However I have about a 1000 more now after reading through the archive of articles and I am sure you all do too.

Now MB dismissed the flat scenario in about 10 seconds flat and said it was too expensive in Fulham for anyone just out of the slammer to have access to said flat. Umm. No one said it was a million dollar flat.
Even so. THEY should have known or DO know this to this day and it is ignored. This would go along way in explaining where he was from Friday 25th to Monday 28th July. The fact they could never establish this is a critical failure.

In 2026 the MET need to provide the bones (literally) that puts this structure they propose together to the public. His statement about him driving her up the M5 to NB is just a bit of fluff. IN what car, where is this car today? In what timeframe? Where did the tools come from to dispose of her body? ( ie, tarps, blankets, stuff to conceal bodily fluids.) If SL was killed somewhere after 3pm Monday well her body would start decomposing within a few hours (especially in Summer).

If this occured at a flat somewhere in Fulham/HSmith etc - if the BW sighting is correct then there is only a very short window of time for the Fiesta to be back in Stevenage. If he has left her restrained and then returned the car, thats a risky situation so that would probably indicate she had passed away by then. (but he obviously did that with SB (taxi phone call) still dont get that tbh)

Then leaves the conundrum of disposing of her body - without leaving ONE trace of evidence. Not to mention the keys, items of clothing etc. Both SB and SCs belongings were either scattered about (handbag, etc) or still in his possession (tax disc SB etc)

If he drove her to NB in the Sierra there is no way he is a 'clean enough' criminal to ensure there is not one piece of evidence left behind in that Sierra. He clearly was at his mothers in SC on Wednesday 30th according to MB in the Podcast.

If this BMW that belonged to R from Belgium that was reported stolen and then recovered in STJWd - they said they investigated that, but if JC stole this car and used that, why abandon it back in London after being at NB? Seems a stretch.

The BW sighting is critical to the timeline here. IMO I do not believe she was mistaken. Yes she took 4 days to come forward, but as she said at the time, she did not know SJL was missing until the day after, and then did not realise she probably was the last person to see her. I know that can seem weird in this day and age, but back then, I do not think its inconceivable.

Now why would they be travelling UP FPR at 2.45 in the afternoon?