UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[kes1972]

NB: my posts about why this may have happened. AS was asked by police to change a factual timeline type detail. A fact. We know there was grave sensitivity about Sunday night especially as Barley has now recently confirmed SL gave a false alibi to AL.

The police also put out a reputation saving ‘she was only a modern girl’ article that wasn’t universally supported in force as there was evidence to contrary. This might further support above. They bowed to DL’s will.

AS added the detail wasn’t that important. No biggie. Not related to Monday abduction it was thought.

The above ignores the other, fairly good, supporting evidence.

Any factual evidence that the cook had an allotment over the river?

 

[rvlvr]

So he did see sl then to know they may have fallen out of her bag then??

No, I think that was just his assumption.

“I mean the chequebook and diary were just outside the door. As you stepped out of the door, there were like a little area with a couple of benches on it. And the chequebook and diary was on the floor just in front, side of the benches. So whether she’s actually gone out, put her handbag on the bench and it fell off or whatever or…”

DV asked him if he’d seen Suzy at the pub on the Sunday night and he said no, that the pub got a lot of passing trade, the regulars stood at the bar, everyone else was just ‘a face’.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

@kes1972 not as far as I know.

 

[kes1972]

i always thought SL came home from her parents house and went straight to bed. DL said to SL, your not over doing it are you, to which suzy replied, no mum, life is for living.

So let me get this straight, sl sat at the pub bench then, was the phone box next to the bench? If no then why would she be at the pub bench, does this mean she bought a drink at the pow giving reason to sit at the bench? And if sitting at the bench who with as to drop your items out of your bag there would need to be a distraction or person with you to not know you had dropped you items surely?

 

[kes1972]

So let me get this straight, sl sat at the pub bench then, was the phone box next to the bench? If no then why would she be at the pub bench, does this mean she bought a drink at the pow giving reason to sit at the bench? And if sitting at the bench who with as to drop your items out of your bag there would need to be a distraction or person with you to not know you had dropped you items surely?

Maybe with nb then?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

So let me get this straight, sl sat at the pub bench then, was the phone box next to the bench? If no then why would she be at the pub bench, does this mean she bought a drink at the pow giving reason to sit at the bench? And if sitting at the bench who with as to drop your items out of your bag there would need to be a distraction or person with you to not know you had dropped you items surely?

Possibly waiting to use the phone, or if after seeing her parents perhaps, a lift. Yes, bench/table close to phone box.

 

[kes1972]

Possibly waiting to use the phone, or if after seeing her parents perhaps, a lift. Yes, bench/table close to phone box.

If using the phone would have probably wanted her pocket diary? If only living round the corner would hardly have needed a lift surely?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

If using the phone would have probably wanted her pocket diary? If only living round the corner would hardly have needed a lift surely?

I mean waiting to be collected after calling someone…If this all happened after seeing her parents. If excited/rushing/stressed poss to leave things behind.

If she went off with Mayfair expat he may have picked her up or anyone linked to deal as parents had flagged concern. As she was unusually tired, whoever she saw or whatever she did may have been urgent or important. We now know she almost certainly saw someone & went somewhere after her parents.

There are two windows of opportunity for her to be by the box at the table & lose her things:

1. 7:00-7:30pm after returning surfboard to flat.

2. Around 9pm. or just after, -after seeing her parents.

 

[kes1972]

I mean waiting to be collected after calling someone…If this all happened after seeing her parents. If excited/rushing/stressed poss to leave things behind.

If she went off with Mayfair expat he may have picked her up or anyone linked to deal as parents had flagged concern. As she was unusually tired, whoever she saw or whatever she did may have been urgent or important. We now know she almost certainly saw someone & went somewhere after her parents.

There are two windows of opportunity for her to be by the box at the table & lose her things:

1. 7:00-7:30pm after returning surfboard to flat.

2. Around 9pm. or just after, -after seeing her parents.

.

 

[kes1972]

.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

.

I’d often make a call & wait for a friend to collect me & then, if preoccupied, leaving something behind possible.

Quite commonly, I’d find a diary/address book someone had left in a phone box. I guess poss someone did find it like this & left on table outside to be spotted more easily & it got knocked off.

 

[Konstantin]

I’d often make a call & wait for a friend to collect me & then, if preoccupied, leaving something behind possible.

Quite commonly, I’d find a diary/address book someone had left in a phone box. I guess poss someone did find it like this & left on table outside to be spotted more easily & it got knocked off.

To be honest I see similar now! Though not in phone boxes obviously. I've seen jewellery that people must have dropped and it's been put on a garden wall or picnic table at a cafe to be found.

 

[kes1972]

To be honest I see similar now! Though not in phone boxes obviously. I've seen jewellery that people must have dropped and it's been put on a garden wall or picnic table at a cafe to be found.

But it was on the floor so not left on the table, and i can honestly say i never came across anything in the many years using phone boxes

 

[kes1972]

But it was on the floor so not left on the table, and i can honestly say i never came across anything in the many years using phone boxes

is there anything stated on when the flatmate see sl on the sunday evening?
I sm guessing their paths crossed at some point on the sunday evening or heard her come home and enter the flat

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

But it was on the floor so not left on the table, and i can honestly say i never came across anything in the many years using phone boxes

Knocked off & spread out on ground possible if Esp in small forecourt. Especially if left on corner of a table. But who knows…

 

[Kasparthecat1]

is there anything stated on when the flatmate see sl on the sunday evening?
I sm guessing their paths crossed at some point on the sunday evening or heard her come home and enter the flat

I've been asking myself the same question! I can't find anything at all useful in the AS book. DV goes to some trouble to track him down but I get the impression that his answers are evasive (perhaps understandably so). If he himself (NB that is) was not in during that Sunday evening, or out until quite late, there's no reason for Sjl to go to a phone box for privacy as she had a phone at home. I get the impression (and it's only an impression) that he did see Sjl, but much later in the evening.

We know she left her parents" at 9, and we know she returned to the flat earlier in the evening with her surfboard, but I don't think NBs whereabouts can be established.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Knocked off & spread out on ground possible if Esp in small forecourt. Especially if left on corner of a table. But who knows…

As far as I can remember, we only have KH's word that the items were found like that. He makes an educated guess as to what happened (ie bag's contents spilled out unnoticed by sjl) I think it's possible that they were found elsewhere - perhaps on the pavement- and were picked up by a passer by or something.

I don't think we know anything for certain really.

 

[rvlvr]

I think @Lady Stoddart-West is absolutely on to something regarding a Friday to Sunday switch regarding the belongings. What stands out to me from re-reading AS’s book this weekend is how very little attention is paid to the issue by the author. This was the last date Suzy had with her boyfriend, just a couple of days before her disappearance, and she was going to collect these belongings on the day she went missing. Yet it’s covered in just one small paragraph (page 25):

[T]wo young detectives were sent to the Prince of Wales pub in Putney, where Susannah’s cheque book, pocket diary and a postcard were waiting. Was this significant? The landlord had found them the previous Friday night, soon after Susannah had apparently dropped them after having dinner with Leegood at Mossop’s restaurant in Upper Richmond Road. The publican contacted her bank on Monday morning, who duly rang her at Sturgis. She then spoke to the landlord’s wife at around 12.40 that lunchtime — in other words, immediately before she left the office — and arranged to pick them up at six o’clock on Monday evening. But she never turned up.

Note how AS says they were lost. Yet later Leegood would say they were stolen. Why weren’t they handed in at, or placed outside of, Mossop’s, rather than left outside of the pub? And there’s no mention of how or when police became aware that Suzy’s belongings were at the pub.

On the time, you’d think that if a punter had found the belongings then they’d have handed them in at the bar, if the pub was still open, rather than leaving them outside to be found. This makes me think the relief landlord found them relatively late - Chinese takeaways often stay open until after last orders. Not sure when the PoW would’ve called time on a Sunday? I think it’s plausible the relief landlord was heading out between 10 and 11 at night.

It’s true memories can fade or become corrupted over time but in his conversations with DV the relief landlord is consistently very clear that he found these items on the Sunday night on his way out to get food.

 

[WestLondoner]

I've been asking myself the same question! I can't find anything at all useful in the AS book.

The source for SJL and NB killing time in her flat seems ultimately to be DL, which does not fill one with any confidence. NB would certainly have been asked about this when he was interviewed - it's a bleedin' obvious question, after all - but we have nothing about this from sources from that time.

If he himself (NB that is) was not in during that Sunday evening, or out until quite late, there's no reason for Sjl to go to a phone box for privacy as she had a phone at home.

Weeeeell, except that to know he wasn't at home, she'd have had to go home. And if he were there, mysteriously then go out again. If you look at the parents's address and Disraeli Road, she'd have driven literally right past the PoW to get home. The work of a moment to stop and call if she could see the box was empty or there was no queue to use it.

It's another reason to doubt AL's official story that he couldn't remember who called whom. He couldn't have called her at a phone box, because how would he know which one and when. You could tell if someone's phoned you from one because of the pips and the traffic noise.

As far as I can remember, we only have KH's word that the items were found like that.

Yes, another detail not really captured in any 1986 vintage account.

I still don't get how the police found their way to the PoW or why, if somehow SF did know about this, nobody tried the pub. Unless, as suggested above, they did, and the calls KH misremembered later as from "Sarah" and a plod were in fact from Steph and MG and he just got the details wrong.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think @Lady Stoddart-West is absolutely on to something regarding a Friday to Sunday switch regarding the belongings. What stands out to me from re-reading AS’s book this weekend is how very little attention is paid to the issue by the author. This was the last date Suzy had with her boyfriend, just a couple of days before her disappearance, and she was going to collect these belongings on the day she went missing. Yet it’s covered in just one small paragraph (page 25):



Note how AS says they were lost. Yet later Leegood would say they were stolen. Why weren’t they handed in at, or placed outside of, Mossop’s, rather than left outside of the pub? And there’s no mention of how or when police became aware that Suzy’s belongings were at the pub.

On the time, you’d think that if a punter had found the belongings then they’d have handed them in at the bar, if the pub was still open, rather than leaving them outside to be found. This makes me think the relief landlord found them relatively late - Chinese takeaways often stay open until after last orders. Not sure when the PoW would’ve called time on a Sunday? I think it’s plausible the relief landlord was heading out between 10 and 11 at night.

It’s true memories can fade or become corrupted over time but in his conversations with DV the relief landlord is consistently very clear that he found these items on the Sunday night on his way out to get food.

Having studied AS very closely over the years, I note he appears to hint when he can’t ‘say’…& ‘apparently’ as a prefix may mean ‘she didn’t I think’…

AL had unusual licence to legitimately spout surmises re: JC in doc, as by then named ‘only suspect’ by police, which means ‘he certainly did it but frustratingly we can’t prove it’.

On the Friday AL had only just returned from Canaries, so no ‘regular week’.

There absolutely was a ‘fact’, not relating to abduction directly, AS did change as DL asked police & they agreed & AS duly did so. This we DO know. AS thought pretty inconsequential. My feeling it might not have been noted by later investigations & if so ‘Sunday’ became ‘Friday’ factually over time. It wasn’t thought to matter too much. Why does it matter when a few things were lost & when?

This would explain why AL said what he did in doc & fits with his good character.