UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[lee sumner]

He was gay, wasn't he? Makes sense he didn't really clock the woman.

BBM. Thank you for confirming that. The wiki page also states that 2 hairs from SC was found in the Red Sierra. I wonder where that info came from if not from this book?

I think JC was ruled out of SC case. berry dee is not credible as an investigator/profiler/writer. his info is wrong.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Ah OK. So not GP then? This the weekend Sjl went to Wales with her family?

Yes & she’d cancelled a date away with someone apparently. This does rather point to a relaxed relationship with AL? She’d been away for the weekend too with JH at end of June. Presumably as ‘friends’ though.

But that’s x2 weekends with poss another ‘plus one’ - 21st too.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think JC was ruled out of SC case. berry dee is not credible as an investigator/profiler/writer. his info is wrong.

Prime Suspect is very credible, well researched & decent source material, it’s packed with useful material. Of course nothing is infallible. JC hasn’t been ruled out of SC murder as far as I know, it remains open.

 

[lee sumner]

Ah OK. So not GP then? This the weekend Sjl went to Wales with her family?

SC murder took place on SL 25TH birthday. 3rd may, 1986.

Yes & she’d cancelled a date away with someone apparently. This does rather point to a relaxed relationship with AL? She’d been away for the weekend too with JH at end of June. Presumably as ‘friends’ though.

But that’s x2 weekends with poss another ‘plus one’ - 21st too.

SL and JH had a pact. a secret arrangement to meet up for sex. it did not matter if they were in new relationships. i suspect the wedding they attended in june 1986 was also an opportunity to meet up as lovers. i wonder if AL was suspicious of SL friendship with JH. AL was obviously not invited to the wedding in leeds.

 

[lee sumner]

The Crimewatch reconstruction was aired on Friday 17th October 1986 (or possibly Thursday 16th October 1986), so this image of the Red Sierra parked in Stevenage Road, had to have been filmed sometime between August to early October 1986.

It would then take a few days of post-editing to make the footage ready to be aired on the TV, so I would imagine that August or September are most likely.

correct.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

SC murder took place on SL 25TH birthday. 3rd may, 1986.

SL and JH had a pact. a secret arrangement to meet up for sex. it did not matter if they were in new relationships. i suspect the wedding they attended in june 1986 was also an opportunity to meet up as lovers. i wonder if AL was suspicious of SL friendship with JH. AL was obviously not invited to the wedding in leeds.

That was apparently DH on pact, her fondest & enduring love, not JH, but who knows re: JH too? I guess it made sense for JH & SL to go together as both had QE2 in common with marrying couple. They’d all worked together.

 

[Ellymoo]

Could someone link me to the book online please?

Also, surely whoever it is who saw the hat would be able to describe it so you'd know if it was similar to the one in Suzy's car?

 

[kes1972]

That's assuming it was indeed him driving it though? Something of a sticking point perhaps?

I think I recall reading that he was indeed in Poole that weekend visiting Gilly Paige.

If he's guilty of Sandra's murder we also have to believe he was not tucked up in bed at he hostel where he should have been. Depends on how free and easy things were there.

All in all that's pretty good circumstantial evidence imho, especially if one adds in the trail of items and the letter, which imho smacks of JC.

I wonder what happened to the hair(s)? Could they be retested I wonder...perhaps a more accurate result with dna advances?

I also read I think on Lolly True Crime that someone else is now in the frame?

That crime is more of a jc mo than the sl abduction sloppy and body found the the sl disappearance

 

[tes1984]

I know what you mean about JC and Suzy's body not being found, but a lot of offenders commit organised murders, before getting sloppy and caught.

Peter Tobin, Christopher Halliwell and Steve Wright all went from mobile and organised to ****ing on their own doorsteps.

 

[tes1984]

JC has been suspected of four murders.

Schoolgirl Candice Williams, who was a very close neighbour of his. Another local sex offender, Patrick Hassett turned out to be the murderer.

Plus Sandra Court, Suzy Lamplugh, and of course his murder conviction for Shirley Banks.

 

[tes1984]

I think JC is a very good suspect for Suzy, with a very strong (though entirely circumstantial) case against him. I keep an open mind though, and it might be someone else after all.

Most telling for me is that he couldn't ever provide an alibi. Even in later years when he had hopes of parole. He claimed he was with various relatives, who had conveniently all since died, but living relatives rubbished his claims.

 

[kes1972]

JC has been suspected of four murders.

Schoolgirl Candice Williams, who was a very close neighbour of his. Another local sex offender, Patrick Hassett turned out to be the murderer.

Plus Sandra Court, Suzy Lamplugh, and of course his murder conviction for Shirley Banks.

Sandra court definitely jc fits the bill very similar to shirley banks , sl -steve wright fits the bill and very possible.

 

[EddietheEagle]

For sure. Be great to discuss. I have long said they should be able to use DNA tech advances now on hair to help enquiry and also on letter envelope to rule JC in or out for that relatively easily. Assuming exhibit well kept etc. They were trying with a thumb print on the fiesta last time I heard - presumably with JC comparison in mind.

So what we have on DNA is limited to hair strand evidence from the red Ford Sierra, potentially connected to SC. Plus, more recently, a fingerprint of unknown provenance found on the rear view mirror in the white Ford Fiesta driven by SL, being subjected to more advanced forensic examination. Neither has yielded any definitive evidence yet.

How did Berry-Dee get his facts mixed up about SL's DNA found in the red Sierra?

I did read somewhere that forensic aspects of the case had been debated between police and the CPS at some point after 2003 in the context of charging JC although I cannot pinpoint the date or source. This does suggest the police have latched onto something although quite what and whether it involves a car is uncertain.

Since DV published his unsupported nonsense, this thread has been driven at times by wild postulation which has made it difficult to separate fact from fiction.

 

[EddietheEagle]

Malcolm Hackett deliberately derailed the initial investigation regarding JC. He was helped along, unwittingly or not, by Brian Saunders from Avon and Somerset Police, who were happy to have JC to themselves. In not having JC cautioned before interview, Mike Barley was effectively neutered.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

So what we have on DNA is limited to hair strand evidence from the red Ford Sierra, potentially connected to SC. Plus, more recently, a fingerprint of unknown provenance found on the rear view mirror in the white Ford Fiesta driven by SL, being subjected to more advanced forensic examination. Neither has yielded any definitive evidence yet.

How did Berry-Dee get his facts mixed up about SL's DNA found in the red Sierra?

I did read somewhere that forensic aspects of the case had been debated between police and the CPS at some point after 2003 in the context of charging JC although I cannot pinpoint the date or source. This does suggest the police have latched onto something although quite what and whether it involves a car is uncertain.

Since DV published his unsupported nonsense, this thread has been driven at times by wild postulation which has made it difficult to separate fact from fiction.

Correct. There was apparently a press conference (televised) clearly covering DNA in Sierra (& more)?but I have not been able to find it or any clear, official, Press report.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I think JC is a very good suspect for Suzy, with a very strong (though entirely circumstantial) case against him. I keep an open mind though, and it might be someone else after all.

Most telling for me is that he couldn't ever provide an alibi. Even in later years when he had hopes of parole. He claimed he was with various relatives, who had conveniently all since died, but living relatives rubbished his claims.

Exactly. He was without alibi for a few days too. Do those in hostels typically have access to all their funds? If so he had 2k plus from Probate/his father’s Will. This money would have allowed him to present a veneer of respectability. He might also have feasibly bought a LHD BMW from Poole auction apparently attended on May bank holiday. Cheaper.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

So what we have on DNA is limited to hair strand evidence from the red Ford Sierra, potentially connected to SC. Plus, more recently, a fingerprint of unknown provenance found on the rear view mirror in the white Ford Fiesta driven by SL, being subjected to more advanced forensic examination. Neither has yielded any definitive evidence yet.

How did Berry-Dee get his facts mixed up about SL's DNA found in the red Sierra?

I did read somewhere that forensic aspects of the case had been debated between police and the CPS at some point after 2003 in the context of charging JC although I cannot pinpoint the date or source. This does suggest the police have latched onto something although quite what and whether it involves a car is uncertain.

Since DV published his unsupported nonsense, this thread has been driven at times by wild postulation which has made it difficult to separate fact from fiction.

NB: JD on red sierra ‘DNA’ in ‘The Man Who Killed SL’, he is unclear. I think there has been muddle & confusion here. There are other, mistakes in this doc.

 

[GTB72]

So what we have on DNA is limited to hair strand evidence from the red Ford Sierra, potentially connected to SC. Plus, more recently, a fingerprint of unknown provenance found on the rear view mirror in the white Ford Fiesta driven by SL, being subjected to more advanced forensic examination. Neither has yielded any definitive evidence yet.

How did Berry-Dee get his facts mixed up about SL's DNA found in the red Sierra?

I did read somewhere that forensic aspects of the case had been debated between police and the CPS at some point after 2003 in the context of charging JC although I cannot pinpoint the date or source. This does suggest the police have latched onto something although quite what and whether it involves a car is uncertain.

Since DV published his unsupported nonsense, this thread has been driven at times by wild postulation which has made it difficult to separate fact from fiction.

BBM. Lol. So you don't recommend Finding Suzy then? That's one I can scratch off my list.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

BBM. Lol. So you don't recommend Finding Suzy then? That's one I can scratch off my list.

It's definitely required reading if you're interested in this case, albeit with a critical eye.

IMO he may well be right on keys, or lack thereof, for one thing re: 37. Makes no odds it was/is thought as surely SL was defintley outside and likely with a man. NB: also WJ on fiesta.Other detail too, all builds a piciure. He says, DV, the police agreed with him on pretty much everything bar KH being responsible. So if you read with that in mind... For the police, DV was missing the 'golden thread' that ties some/all of the conjecture around KH/CV together.

 

[WestLondoner]

If DV has no more on KH than he put in his book, then IMO, he has nothing at all.