UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[Clairybums]

I think he kept SB for a period of time before killing her. I'm just wondering if, as others have theorised, he abducted her at SR123? (witness sees the BMW speed off). He takes her, maybe at knife point (or possibly renders her unconscious at the first opportunity, I.e. when he's sure no witnesses), takes her to a place he's staying at where he has the privacy to do whatever and a similar fate awaits SL as that of SB the following year. The difference I imagine is (and I don't have enough knowledge of the area of the SB kidnapping to know for sure abd someone I'm sure will put me straight if I'm wrong) the built up/busy area of inner London made things a bit more complicated and he had to adapt whatever plan he may have had to accommodate for this so had to work a plan to dispose of SL before leaving the area. Detective JD said there were warehouses round the canal area where it would have been easy to locate a trolley, or... if it wasn't JC then this could work too for someone who was just as cunning/charming, enough to hook SL, that he was a newbie and went with the flow. Maybe it's just me and my wild imagination, just trying to think of the possibilities. I'm no psychologist but it seems that JC and people like him have a need to do what they do and the more they do it the easier it becomes (becoming more experienced and nuanced with each kill). I don't think JC had killed up to that point or if SL wasn't him then possibly he was a robber and rapist who escalated over time until he killed SB. I still think it was him for now but I'm trying to keep my mind open to others. I read somewhere, someone likened JC to Bundy.

Sorry for the wild waffling, I didn’t intend to spew all of that. The thing I'm trying to work out is if the difference in the areas of the two murders had an impact on the the way they were carried out. Perhaps he thought he could afford to be more lax with with the 2nd one. Oh, I dont know, I think I've confused myself, I knew what ai meant. I need sleep.

I need to map this out. I'm making assumptions but where on earth would he have been able to take her? I think it was 2 (or 3) days later that the canal walker witnessed the trolley man.

 

[Clairybums]

Yes, but in a remote place so not for some time. It also appears he killed her there. Killing someone elsewhere, packing the body up and dumping it is a lot more elaborate than what he later did. You'd think he'd get more rather than less proficient.

I can't seem to find any mention of JC killing SB at the place she was found. Just that he held her for 18 hours at his flat, forced her to call in sick to work and then killed her before dumping her at Quantock Hills That's not to say he didn't, just that I haven't found anything saying he did. QHills is about an hours drive (today) from the area he lived, according to maps that is.

 

[Clairybums]

I need to map this out. I'm making assumptions but where on earth would he have been able to take her? I think it was 2 (or 3) days later that the canal walker witnessed the trolley man.

Another theory here...

Since JC was on day release, working as a porter, in the period before he was freed, I'm assuming he made acquaintances with people/colleagues on the outside and during his day. Apparently the prison was quite lax with the day release rules and times too. Is it possible that he found a short term room or flat somewhere nearby. Probably easy enough with word of mouth etc.

Now my mind is flashing back to Dorncliffe Road. Is it possible that, whatever reason was given to SL to stop off there, maybe he was hoping the basement neighbour (G) would help him out, like let him have use of his flat for a romantic night or 2 and there was no answer when he knocked so he had to resort to a backup plan?

All of this is theory of course. Wracking my brain here because who in their right mind is going to attempt to grab someone in a busy city and hope to get away without witnesses, without some kind of plan at least? Now I can see why people are trying to think of a nearby empty propery he (whoever he was) could have used.

 

[Clairybums]

Another theory here...

Since JC was on day release, working as a porter, in the period before he was freed, I'm assuming he made acquaintances with people/colleagues on the outside and during his day. Apparently the prison was quite lax with the day release rules and times too. Is it possible that he found a short term room or flat somewhere nearby. Probably easy enough with word of mouth etc.

Now my mind is flashing back to Dorncliffe Road. Is it possible that, whatever reason was given to SL to stop off there, maybe he was hoping the basement neighbour (G) would help him out, like let him have use of his flat for a romantic night or 2 and there was no answer when he knocked so he had to resort to a backup plan?

All of this is theory of course. Wracking my brain here because who in their right mind is going to attempt to grab someone in a busy city and hope to get away without witnesses, without some kind of plan at least? Now I can see why people are trying to think of a nearby empty propery he (whoever he was) could have used.

Last one tonight I promise. It's just my brain is working overtime now and if I don't get this out, it'll be gone when I wake up.

Another theory...

It's not that far from SR123 to the area of WScrubs when you think about it. Practically a straight run through HBroadway, down SBush Road, Wood Lane and boom, you're practically there so if he did have a room or flat secured? This area might have been his comfort zone since he was working around there in the weeks or months before his release.

From WScrubs itself it's a 22 minute drive to the canal, maybe a little more (depending on where exactly the witness was). That's nothing when you think he drove an hour with SB to the dump site.

Maybe while everyone was concentrating on the addresses in Fulham, he was down the road, free and clear, not far but far enough.

 

[RichardKimble]

i believe she went to 37SR, and i dont think she was killed so quickly like implied in this article/theory.

Going there and going in there are two different things, forensically theres nothing to suggest SL went in, a possible rendezvous point as per the diary entry.

 

[RichardKimble]

I can't seem to find any mention of JC killing SB at the place she was found. Just that he held her for 18 hours at his flat, forced her to call in sick to work and then killed her before dumping her at Quantock Hills That's not to say he didn't, just that I haven't found anything saying he did. QHills is about an hours drive (today) from the area he lived, according to maps that is.

There was a witness to te sound of an altercation with the male voice saying I warned you.

An elderly woman later came forward saying she heard a commotion in the woods near John’s flat on the 9th. She reported to have heard a woman’s voice screaming ‘’No, no!’’ and a man replying "I warned you what I would do" as well as choking sounds. She then claimed that she saw a man with ‘dark, curly hair’. Police originally took this witness statement with a pinch of salt.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimeDiscussion/comments/1duvg1d/on_october_8th_1987_29yearold_shirley_banks_was

A 69-year-old woman came forward to say she had heard a violent struggle in woods near Cannan’s house, the day after Shirley was abducted.

Bristol killer John Cannan 'could have killed more'

As part of our Crimes that shook Bristol series, we look at John Cannon who killed Shirley Banks, but was he responsible for more deaths?

www.bristolpost.co.uk

 

[rvlvr]

Possibly with JC in mind, by June 1987 the police consider SL ‘dropped’ Kipper at a ‘building to do business’ He ‘invites her in’ things then go wrong. Later he joins friends at a South London pub.

The timeline is off but their ideas are interesting (!)

Was the person @Clairybums flags ever a person of interest?

View attachment 652407

This article is wild, isn’t it! I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything else written about this case along these lines?

In this scenario, Suzy leaves the office at 12.35 and is dead less than 10 minutes later. This is no elaborate abduction, more a straight up execution. Who would want her dead that badly, to dispatch her this ruthlessly? I can’t see where a sex offender like Cannan would fit into this, this scenario bares little to no resemblance to the Shirley Banks murder, imo.

Assuming her killer did dump her car in Stevenage Road, then ‘breezed’ into his ‘regular’ pub, it must’ve been one nearby? Would Cannan have been a regular in a ‘local’ boozer such as this? I can just about imagine him heading to those ends at the weekend to pose as a businessman in wine bars and bistros, but I’d imagine any pals he’d made at the hostel and Superhire did their weekday drinking in pubs that were far closer to home.

 

[kes1972]

I think she went to 37 as well. The first sighting outside of the lady standing right at the entrance looking as if she was waiting for someone. If that's not Suzy then whom? Another estate agent? Someone waiting for a mini cab? One sighting you could explain away. But 3?

I don't think she was killed that early too. I've always thought that she drove to Stevenage Road and was picked up and driven to 37SR. Afterwards, her and Kipper drove away for their business meeting/assignation and she was killed elsewhere. Just leaving the car to be found by Police at 22.01 where it was parked sometime earlier.
JMO.

The way sl car was left on 123sr suggests it was left there later,but

yes, great minds think alike. this is how i think it played out on the 28/7/1986.

I had a thought, never thought of, maybe moo sl had something else stolen on the sunday, something that she had to recover and when pow called had to get it back but not at pub at 123

 

[kes1972]

The way sl car was left on 123sr suggests it was left there later,but

And from there onwards got the runaround, that would explain going to 10cdorncliffe and then bw sighting.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

This article is wild, isn’t it! I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything else written about this case along these lines?

In this scenario, Suzy leaves the office at 12.35 and is dead less than 10 minutes later. This is no elaborate abduction, more a straight up execution. Who would want her dead that badly, to dispatch her this ruthlessly? I can’t see where a sex offender like Cannan would fit into this, this scenario bares little to no resemblance to the Shirley Banks murder, imo.

Assuming her killer did dump her car in Stevenage Road, then ‘breezed’ into his ‘regular’ pub, it must’ve been one nearby? Would Cannan have been a regular in a ‘local’ boozer such as this? I can just about imagine him heading to those ends at the weekend to pose as a businessman in wine bars and bistros, but I’d imagine any pals he’d made at the hostel and Superhire did their weekday drinking in pubs that were far closer to home.

I am inclined to think JC was telling the truth when he said if he went out drinking he did so around Acton with Superhire buddies. Maybe what article is driving at. I think timing way off in article but some of the ideas may be interesting to ponder.

For me, access to money from his father’s inheritance makes assuming a businessman persona, like ‘Peterson’ in the dating video, possible in last months or weeks of stay. Keeping it up indefinitely unlikely..Renting somewhere or using a hotel also plausible. He was superficially confident & flash when he had the money.

The police I think at one point were working on the idea JC collaborated. JT, who did share a car with him, was careful to distance himself later.

The evidence points to an escalation between 2-3pm & it’s possible SL knew the basement’s reputation or shadiness there & twigged she was being strung along..