UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 Jul 1986 #8

[kes1972]

Apparently no one immediately local in road had a white fiesta type car. “Most remember the car as it was not a familiar one”.

Well we know that is not true because on the crimewatch reconstruction 1986 a white car is parked in the position car was either it was before or after and the factual evidence is on the crimewatch programme.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Well we know that is not true because on the crimewatch reconstruction 1986 a white car is parked in the position car was either it was before or after and the factual evidence is on the crimewatch programme.

Take your point but am not so sure we can read lots into cars we see.

Some, like Mahon’s fiesta definitely fit. They meant immediate the vicinity ( those ‘within sight of the lock-up garage didn’t recognise the white fiesta) re: familiarity. Hard to see how that’s wrong? They’d surely know? Unless they asked WJ

 

[kes1972]

He's right - it does fit his narrative that JC was Kipper and that they had known each other before. It really does seem most likely that whoever kipper was, she knew him in some capacity.

The question is where and how did their paths cross then? And the answer might well still be in her diary.

Unbelievable to think nearly 40 years later with no link to jc and still trying to find one.better off looking at the facts. Her last sighting was in her workplace, then most likely dorncliffe road and fulham palace road.

 

[kes1972]

Take your point but am not so sure we can read lots into cars we see.

Some, like Mahon’s fiesta definitely fit. They meant immediate vicinity re: familiarity. Hard to see how that’s wrong? They’d surely know? Unless they asked WJ

You are right there. They may have asked one person and probably did.

 

[kes1972]

You are right there. They may have asked one person and probably did.

Has anyone ever thought what if sl was double dealing in property? Then if sturgis had an inkling and their office in putney was handling her sale and had access to her flat and information?

 

[lee sumner]

Yes i'd like a list but you are not allowed to post them publicly. I'm not allowed to ask you to send me a list via message either.

what about what i sent you. have they been taken down.

 

[lee sumner]

If JC, he was buying/looking for a house with ‘Sue’ in Fulham that’s something to ponder. Was he a ‘contact’ in same way others were that was never bottomed out (?) We do know he joined reputable dating agencies/agency a year later.

re, SL knowing mr kipper before meeting. we dont know this for a fact, and her job as an a EA means a stranger could have easily booked an appointment and lured her into a trap.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Has anyone ever thought what if sl was double dealing in property? Then if sturgis had an inkling and their office in putney was handling her sale and had access to her flat

re, SL knowing mr kipper before meeting. we dont know this for a fact, and her job as an a EA means a stranger could have easily booked an appointment and lured her into a trap.

True but all the evidence points to her knowing him to some degree. She was being pressurised apparently & the person behind this ‘deal’ never identified.

I think very interesting AS, who has evidence we don’t, thinks all this points to her life away from work.

 

[Mrs Marple]

I have lost track with this thread. Anyone care to put their theories forward?

 

[lee sumner]

Take your point but am not so sure we can read lots into cars we see.

Some, like Mahon’s fiesta definitely fit. They meant immediate the vicinity ( those ‘within sight of the lock-up garage didn’t recognise the white fiesta) re: familiarity. Hard to see how that’s wrong? They’d surely know? Unless they asked WJ

why would WJ notice the fiesta. it was overlapping garage entrance, not blocking it, and dont these people like WJ have nothing better to do than notice a white car across the road from her house. the car was not significant when no one knew who it belonged to, it only became significant when it was found at 10PM that night, and when everyone found out it belonged to SL who was missing.

 

[lee sumner]

True but all the evidence points to her knowing him to some degree. She was being pressurised apparently & the person behind this ‘deal’ never identified.

I think very interesting AS, who has evidence we don’t, thinks all this points to her life away from work.

the person behind the deal would have no need to set up a viewing as a house buyer called mr kipper, as he would already know SL as she was his business partner.

 

[lee sumner]

Yes i'd like a list but you are not allowed to post them publicly. I'm not allowed to ask you to send me a list via message either.

what about the initials and names i have already sent to you.

 

[lee sumner]

The issue with this I think is that even if Cannan was posing as a businessman and trying to do some sort of deal with her - be it legit or scam - it doesn’t explain why it ends in murder.

If she’s backing out then how much of an inconvenience is that for Cannan? He’s not got a business empire to lose, nor a marriage that might fail if the truth comes out - there’s no need to silence her, which would surely be the motive here.

Indeed, she might threaten to go to the police, but victims of scams are often reluctant to speak up, “how could you be so stupid Susannah, the man’s a crook?!” etc etc. Her reputation matters far more than his, she’s the yuppie, popular member of the Putney set - even tangentially being linked to anything dodgy will likely reflect negatively on her. Whereas, he’s an outsider who can scarper at a moment’s notice.

And that’s if she can even make anything stick - what ‘evidence’ in terms of a paper trail does she have? Does she even have contact details for this guy? A name (one that’s not fake, anyway)? Anything at all that can be traced? Seems unlikely, given that whatever was in her diary didn’t lead to him.

Killing her in a fit of rage is more believable, yet the theory seems to go that he secured himself somewhere quiet in order to kill her, to conceal then dispose of her body, possibly with the support of an accomplice. That suggests premeditation, rather than a spur of the moment attack.

I do think the deal angle is a promising one but I think it works better if tied to someone with something to lose, who had motive for wanting her dead.

great point. this means the shady deal going on was not with JC.

 

[GTB72]

Oct 1990.

Thanks. So not that long after the book JC is on AS radar.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

the person behind the deal would have no need to set up a viewing as a house buyer called mr kipper, as he would already know SL as she was his business partner.

He was shady & I think her father likely told her to be careful, he discussed the deal on Sunday with her to some extent. It was something to be kept quiet. 37 away from office, a place to meet. She poss pulled out.

 

[lee sumner]

Don’t disagree. For me the major evidence for JC’s involvement is the long interview he had with Barley & SA & what he said here. I’ve lots of respect for Barley. No showboating but real fear/anger apparent re: JC. Barley had been involved for a long time by then & had no doubt about JC’s guilt. SA, initially a sceptic, convinced too. As JC said the man that killed SB killed SL ‘and another girl’.

So much is cited re: JC that’s such flimsy evidence it gets in way of what’s much much more solid (the above).

We don’t know what the working theory the police had re: a group/accomplices - poss they’d be interested in the light of the new Dorncliffe sighting. JC had nothing in history though to link to drugs. Fraud, yes. He was planning a ‘deal’/a ‘company’ with AR.

JC likely had access to much more money than usual in last few months of hostel stay, which makes any semi sophisticated facade easier to maintain. A flat or room for a short time for cash.

JC went crazy if rejected & SL was someone who apparently ‘dumped’ readily/easily. If SL had mixed business with pleasure, very possible on evidence we have, it’s poss a red mist descended & he got lucky. He also drove about an hour plus to kill SB.

there is nothing to link JC to SL. with SB he left evidence. there was no attempt to conceal body, so why did pull off the perfect crime with lamplugh, then messed up big time with SB 1 year later.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

there is nothing to link JC to SL. with SB he left evidence. there was no attempt to conceal body, so why did pull off the perfect crime with lamplugh, then messed up big time with SB 1 year later.

Well, I am open minded on JC but as we’ve said some of the circumstantial evidence is strong. JC did say he’d met the man who murdered SL & he killed SB. He wasn’t boasting here but in serious trouble. If you read the full interview transcription that’s very clear. One reason Barley & SA convinced. They’re intelligent men & SA was completely independent to all & unbiased at start.

JC had never been to Fulham & yet had a girlfriend here, or v close, ‘Sue’, who was helping him buy a place. So not a leap to consider he did same with SL. He had a ‘deal’ with AR, so similar MO.

I think as he had unusual money at time that made his deceptions & opportunities far easier. We shouldn’t underestimate that. Money for a flat, an answerphone etc.

The insistence on absolute secrecy, NB: GP, might fit with no obvious name or number linked to him in SL’s records.

He had no alibi for about 3 days & seemingly changed it to sister & bro in law after they died. Their own children disbelieve it & think he was responsible for SL’s death.

He drove an hour to kill SB. Without question he got lucky if he killed SL. Unfortunately.

To add I don’t think licence plate SLP 386 is good evidence as others do.

Other evidence seems v flimsy such as the man seen staring into the Sturgis window etc.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

Thanks. So not that long after the book JC is on AS radar.

AS had, as he said, all the police files etc. Evidence, again as he said, that would be admissible in Court. He’s also conducted own interviews re: SL witnesses/friends. If he didn’t dispute JC that’s interesting. He seems to assume that JC came from the private part of her personal life we don’t know about.

 

[kes1972]

why would WJ notice the fiesta. it was overlapping garage entrance, not blocking it, and dont these people like WJ have nothing better to do than notice a white car across the road from her house. the car was not significant when no one knew who it belonged to, it only became significant when it was found at 10PM that night, and when everyone found out it belonged to SL who was missing.

Wj another hr

 

[kes1972]

Wj another hr

Reminds me of the woman who said she saw holly and jessica walking down the street hand in hand, she should have been locked up.