UK UK - Suzy Lamplugh, 25, Fulham, 28 July 1986 #8

[Lady Stoddart-West]

I didn't realise JC used the phrase "another girl" in that interview. Do you think he is referring to SC here?

Yes, that’s what’s Barley thought I believe.

 

[WestLondoner]

What's "focrum" supposed to mean?

Focus and fulcrum I think.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

Yes, that’s what’s Barley thought I believe.

There was another officer with Barley wasn't there? Addy or something like that? What did he think I wonder?

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

There was another officer with Barley wasn't there? Addy or something like that? What did he think I wonder?

He is the one who was totally unconvinced by JC, or at least prepared to be very open minded, on JC at start of 2000 investigation. He’s featuted in ‘The Man Who Killed SL’ doc. He’s impressive, and after reviewing all evidence became thoroughly convinced.

 

[Kasparthecat1]

He is the one who was totally unconvinced by JC, or at least prepared to be very open minded, on JC at start of 2000 investigation. He’s featuted in ‘The Man Who Killed SL’ doc. He’s impressive, and after reviewing all evidence became thoroughly convinced.

So Ault, then, was the officer accompanying Barley that day? Not sure where I got Addy from. Must be someone else.

Yes, I've seen Ault being interviewed for that programme. I like that he admits to being sceptical at first, then becoming convinced.

 

[Lady Stoddart-West]

So Ault, then, was the officer accompanying Barley that day?

I believe SA, yes, but Barley uses a different name, you reference, but same initials, in recent podcast. I am not sure if the same person?

 

[Rookie D]

i think JC could be playing mind games with everyone. he wanted to be notorious in some way. to be infamous in british criminal history, so what does he do. he pretends to be mr kipper, the mystery killer who snatched SL in broad daylight, but in reality he did no such thing.

I think you may be right

Hence why JC wore a motorcycle helmet for his botched attempt in Leamington Spa; the day he was caught. He was trying IMO to emulate the notorious House of Sale Rapist who ran riot throughout the West Midlands for around a year or so in 1980.

The HFS rapist was never caught, but it's fair to say that Cannan certainly wasn't the HFS rapist.

Was Cannan a fantasist copycat?

 

[lee sumner]

Prime Suspect is very credible, well researched & decent source material, it’s packed with useful material. Of course nothing is infallible. JC hasn’t been ruled out of SC murder as far as I know, it remains open.

fingerprint on letter, SC case. its not JC who left that print.

 

[GTB72]

fingerprint on letter, SC case. its not JC who left that print.

Can you elaborate on that Lee? I haven't read Prime Suspect but that sounds like an interesting line of discussion.

 

[lee sumner]

I think you may be right

Hence why JC wore a motorcycle helmet for his botched attempt in Leamington Spa; the day he was caught. He was trying IMO to emulate the notorious House of Sale Rapist who ran riot throughout the West Midlands for around a year or so in 1980.

The HFS rapist was never caught, but it's fair to say that Cannan certainly wasn't the HFS rapist.

Was Cannan a fantasist copycat?

i like the way you think. i had not thought of that. JC has also become the HFSR who ran riot raping many women in 1980, but we now know he was not the HFSR. like you said, was JC a fantasist. this makes me even more convinced he is not mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

Can you elaborate on that Lee? I haven't read Prime Suspect but that sounds like an interesting line of discussion.

there was a fingerprint on the letter sent to detectives working the SC case. iam sure you have heard about the letter, if not. it was sent by someone saying SC death was an accident, and the person responsible is really unhappy about what happened, or something along them lines, but what is interesting is there was a fingerprint found on the letter or envelope, and iam sure i read JC had been ruled because of the print. the letter was posted from southampton which is 80 miles from london, and i cant imagine JC driving 80 miles to post that letter. he would have been working at the prop hire company in acton when that letter was sent.

 

[lee sumner]

So Ault, then, was the officer accompanying Barley that day? Not sure where I got Addy from. Must be someone else.

Yes, I've seen Ault being interviewed for that programme. I like that he admits to being sceptical at first, then becoming convinced.

ault was not convinced like barley was. ault could see JC was playing silly mind games pretending to be mr kipper.

 

[lee sumner]

These are the minimum sentences for some 80s and 90s UK murderers.

John Cannan 40 years (reduced to 35 on appeal).
Donald Robertson 30 years.
Colin Pitchfork 30 years (reduced to 28).
Colin Campbell 24 years.
Christopher Hampton 22 years.
Marc Shillibier 22 years.
Sandip Patel 19 years.

these prison terms are a joke. nonces like these should get the US, sentence, life without parole, which does not exist here in the UK but it should.

 

[lee sumner]

That was apparently DH on pact, her fondest & enduring love, not JH, but who knows re: JH too? I guess it made sense for JH & SL to go together as both had QE2 in common with marrying couple. They’d all worked together.

just checked. it was JH QE2 lover.

 

[lee sumner]

The Crimewatch reconstruction was aired on Friday 17th October 1986 (or possibly Thursday 16th October 1986), so this image of the Red Sierra parked in Stevenage Road, had to have been filmed sometime between August to early October 1986.

It would then take a few days of post-editing to make the footage ready to be aired on the TV, so I would imagine that August or September are most likely.

yes, it has to go through the editing process. what i liked about crimewatch was they would use the real players in the case as well as actors. real players and real locations like SL flat in putney and nick bryant SL flatmate/lodger appear in the reconstruction. crimewatch was a head of its time.

 

[lee sumner]

What is considered the crime scene for the killing? The car never revealed any forensics.
JC left enough in the SB killing to build the case against him.

JC was a cowboy when it came to leaving evidence behind. SB case is a great example. mr kipper left no trace. mr kipper pulled off the perfect crime then vanished into thin air taking lamplugh with him. this why i dont think JC is responsible for SL abduction/murder.

 

[GTB72]

JC was a cowboy when it came to leaving evidence behind. SB case is a great example. mr kipper left no trace. mr kipper pulled off the perfect crime then vanished into thin air taking lamplugh with him. this why i dont think JC is responsible for SL abduction/murder.

A stopped clock is correct twice a day. People make mistakes, even killers. The fact that his MO was sloppy doesn't proclude the chance that he killed SJL and everything went right for him on that particular day.

 

[tes1984]

these prison terms are a joke. nonces like these should get the US, sentence, life without parole, which does not exist here in the UK but it should.

The UK now has life without parole sentences (whole life tariffs). The likes of Pitchfork and Campbell would get whole life tariffs these days. Perhaps Cannan too.

 

[rvlvr]

I think you may be right

Hence why JC wore a motorcycle helmet for his botched attempt in Leamington Spa; the day he was caught. He was trying IMO to emulate the notorious House of Sale Rapist who ran riot throughout the West Midlands for around a year or so in 1980.

The HFS rapist was never caught, but it's fair to say that Cannan certainly wasn't the HFS rapist.

Was Cannan a fantasist copycat?

It’s a tricky one. Would he actually have been aware of the HFS rapes to begin with? It seems they got a fair bit of news coverage at the time, so perhaps. But would he have been thinking of them so many years later? The wearing of a helmet as a disguise isn’t uncommon either.

I think the problem with Cannan is it’s difficult to say exactly what type of offender he was. I mean, in the Banks case, did he always intend to kill her? Even with his one confirmed murder what exactly happened isn’t clear cut.

He obviously was a fantasist in his ‘real’ life, so it seems reasonable to assume he had no original ideas of his own when it came to his criminal life too. But then that raises issues re Suzy’s case - was this a random abduction and murder (so fairly unoriginal) or was this a carefully thought out killing, the perfect crime? If the latter, he doesn’t strike me as particularly capable of pulling that off but if the former, well, with a bit of luck he perhaps made it look like the latter?

 

[WestLondoner]

there was a fingerprint on the letter sent to detectives working the SC case.

Probably belonged to the till person at W H Smith who sold him the envelope!