GUILTY UK - Viktorija Sokolova, 14, Murdered, Wolverhampton W. Mids, 11 April 2018 *Arrests*

[Elainera]

We can't say who else was there even though there are two other unidentified contributors of semen on her.

Did they ever search for these two men? Take dna samples from the defendant's brother and friends, for example?

 

[jessie]

I am left wondering about this change of trousers thing.

The person seen leaving the park had different trousers but was wearing the same Adidas trainers, so identified as the defendant - have I got that right?

Then there was cctv of the defendant leaving home, carrying a backpack, with his brother not too long after.

Was he then wearing the same trousers as the man seen leaving the park?

Just trying to follow the evidence.

 

[Tortoise]

I am left wondering about this change of trousers thing.

The person seen leaving the park had different trousers but was wearing the same Adidas trainers, so identified as the defendant - have I got that right?

Then there was cctv of the defendant leaving home, carrying a backpack, with his brother not too long after.

Was he then wearing the same trousers as the man seen leaving the park?

Just trying to follow the evidence.

I don't think they've said if he was still wearing the 2nd pair of trousers when he left the house but they do say he disposed of the trainers so he must have changed his shoes at the house.

 

[jessie]

I don't think they've said if he was still wearing the 2nd pair of trousers when he left the house but they do say he disposed of the trainers so he must have changed his shoes at the house.

Of course, good point.

Made me realise he must have had to remove shoes in the park to change trousers. Strange about lack of blood on him if they were able to test 2nd pair of trousers. Some would have transferred from shoes to spare trousers in the first change I would have thought.

But then there was nothing in the bathroom in the Becky Watts case, so who can tell.

 

[claudianunes]

I'm not sure about this one. For the sake of everyone, I hope they got the right person. I just don't think they did.

 

[Whatevr]

I'm not sure about this one. For the sake of everyone, I hope they got the right person. I just don't think they did.

What makes you think that?

 

[claudianunes]

What makes you think that?

I talked about it a few posts back. Not a very popular opinion.

 

[jessie]

I talked about it a few posts back. Not a very popular opinion.

Whether popular or not you are entitled to your own opinion. Personally I'm always glad to read others' point of view here on WS, it can bring up things I haven't considered and makes me ponder .

I have to admit I am very uncomfortable with the lack forensic evidence that would make me convinced in this case.

 

[claudianunes]

Whether popular or not you are entitled to your own opinion. Personally I'm always glad to read others' point of view here on WS, it can bring up things I haven't considered and makes me ponder .

I have to admit I am very uncomfortable with the lack forensic evidence that would make me convinced in this case.

Yes, the forensic evidence is what keeps me scratching my head. I don't think he should have been found guilty of killing her. Rape, yes. Homicide? I don't think so. Not with the info we have, or should I say, the info we don't have?

 

[Tortoise]

Yes, the forensic evidence is what keeps me scratching my head. I don't think he should have been found guilty of killing her. Rape, yes. Homicide? I don't think so. Not with the info we have, or should I say, the info we don't have?

Exactly. When they charged him with raping her after her death there was at least some basis for the jury to conclude he was there during the murder. When that turned out to be not provable, and since the verdict they say the evidence that the sex was not consensual is that she was murdered - not because of medical evidence of injury after death - the case folds in on itself IMO. The burden of proof has to be higher than jumping to conclusions.

 

[claudianunes]

Exactly. When they charged him with raping her after her death there was at least some basis for the jury to conclude he was there during the murder. When that turned out to be not provable, and since the verdict they say the evidence that the sex was not consensual is that she was murdered - not because of medical evidence of injury after death - the case folds in on itself IMO. The burden of proof has to be higher than jumping to conclusions.

That is the only evidence of rape they had? Oh boy.

 

[mrazda71]

That is the only evidence of rape they had? Oh boy.

I'd say No, that may be the only evidence that we, the public, have been told of by the media at this point but that's not to say that judge and jury haven't seen a whole lot of evidence - hence the guilty verdict.

 

[Tortoise]

I'd say No, that may be the only evidence that we, the public, have been told of by the media at this point but that's not to say that judge and jury haven't seen a whole lot of evidence - hence the guilty verdict.

It's the lead detective who said it, not the media

Detective Inspector Caroline Corfield, of West Midlands Police's Homicide Team, said:

'The reason he was also charged with rape is that we recovered DNA from in and on Viktorija's body that proved that her killer had had sex with her.

'If that had been consensual, there is no explanation for Viktorija's murder.

'If that had been consensual, then why did Viktorija not leave that park alive?

Teenager, 16, is convicted of rape and murder of Viktorija Sokolova | Daily Mail Online

She only need have referred in a non-specific way to injuries if there was more evidence. I read her words to mean there is a possibility of it being consensual if she hadn't also been murdered.

Personally I think they've decided this on the basis of him getting rid of evidence on his phone that he met her, and his bag.

This was an excessively violent murder and it looks like it was premeditated because the weapon was readily available. The extent of the violence doesn't make sense to me that he lost it because of rejection, and it also doesn't make sense that he took a change of trousers but not a change of top or shoes, as if he knew he would get blood on his trousers. A scene of uncontrolled bloodshed but yet apparently no blood on his bag from putting the weapon and blood soaked trousers in the bag, because he wore the bag home on top of his jacket. If he put those items in his bag before he washed his hands and arms he got blood on the bag. If he handled those items after washing himself he got blood on the bag. It is quite mysterious and I would have had a doubt. I think some people like to think the police don't make cases against the wrong person. Not you, but maybe jurors. I only found out at sentencing from a fellow juror I was on a jury with that she was glad we were all sure because she wasn't.

 

[Elainera]

I wish we could see the videos of him entering the park and later an individual they assumed was him as well leaving the park in different trousers.

Is it possible it was not him leaving and he left a different way? Maybe because he didn't have a change of trousers with him and his had blood on it and he didn't want to be seen.

The jury saw those videos and must have come to the conclusion that it was him both times.

Idk. This case is confusing me. I expect there will be an appeal?

 

[claudianunes]

I wish we could see the videos of him entering the park and later an individual they assumed was him as well leaving the park in different trousers.

Is it possible it was not him leaving and he left a different way? Maybe because he didn't have a change of trousers with him and his had blood on it and he didn't want to be seen.

The jury saw those videos and must have come to the conclusion that it was him both times.

Idk. This case is confusing me. I expect there will be an appeal?

They released the CCTV footage of her but won't release his? That's a little fishy to me.

 

[Tortoise]

I think I have seen some video footage of him, I'll see if I can find it. It maybe that they are withholding some of his so that he won't be identified, although the defence barrister did say the following

"Moving onto CCTV footage, Mr Kane said the footage isn’t good enough for facial recognition and the Crown was attempting to identify people by their clothing."

I also just spotted this statement again and it actually staggers me that they were sure enough to convict him -

"At least two male contributors to DNA in seminal fluid found on or in Viktorija remain unidentifiable - at least two"

 

[JosieJo]

I also saw footage of him but it's now not on the net

To me all they have on him is he met her and had sex with her and deleted social media afterwards..which he could have done if he was the one who was violent enough to kill her or not

Another thing the leading officer said ..she said they had sleepless nights hoping he would not get away from this ..so seemed aware the evidence was not the strongest

I really hope the jury had a lot more evidence than made public

 

[mrazda71]

If he JUST Had sex with her - there'd be no need to delete social media and dump bag and clothing.

Do any of you really beleive that he'd go to the park - rape her without extreme/fatal force and then pop off home leaving her raped but otherwise alive and well and she'd just stay quietly in the park until someone else happened to murder her?

 

[JosieJo]

I agree I think to just leave her and a random stranger just happened to find her is extremely unlikely..but that's not to say he acted alone...or than he wasn't aware what had happened

Plus if he had raped her but not killed her also he would remove everything

 

[jiminy]

I've not read the whole thread but I just read the Birmingham Mail's summary of Viktorija's life (The tragic case of troubled schoolgirl brutally murdered ) and it sounds an awful lot to me like, aside from her rape and murder, she may have been being groomed by these 'older men in the park'. The whole pattern of behaviour reminded me of the Rochdale girls. I wonder if that aspect is being investigated quietly or whether it's just being swept under the carpet.

While I feel like, on the balance of probability, this boy is guilty of her murder, like most here I don't feel like the threshold of beyond reasonable doubt was reached. I can only assume that some of the evidence was more compelling in person than it seems reading descriptions.