underwear question

[Blazeboy3]

Are we counting pairs of underwear from the police inventories? Cause the BPD said those inventories weren't entirely accurate. Some things were counted twice, so maybe some things were never counted at all.

Not me ...not counting anyone's underwear...it's not the solution to the problem...IMHO...???
OH THIS IS TOO FUNNY... "underwear?"...really? :croc: :doh:
http://www.courttv.com/archive/casefiles/jonbenet/smit_letter.html
IMHO...it's about SHOES...why wasn't JonBenet wearing any "shoes"...let us ask "FOX:LouSmit" about that hum???...!!!~~~ :bang: :croc: :hand: :doh:

At this point in the investigation "the case" tells me that John and Patsy Ramsey did not kill their daughter, that a very dangerous killer is still out there and no one is actively looking for him. There are still many areas of investigation which must be explored before life and death decisions are made.

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/1211jon1.html

Shoes, shoes, the victim's shoes, who will stand in the victim's shoes?

Good Luck to you and your fine office and may God bless you in the awesome decisions you must soon make.

Sincerely,
Detective Lou Smit

 

[Blazeboy3]

Not me ...not counting anyone's underwear...it's not the solution to the problem...IMHO...???
OH THIS IS TOO FUNNY... "underwear?"...really? :croc: :doh:
http://www.courttv.com/archive/casefiles/jonbenet/smit_letter.html
IMHO...it's about SHOES...why wasn't JonBenet wearing any "shoes"...let us ask "FOX:LouSmit" about that hum???...!!!~~~ :bang: :croc: :hand: :doh:

At this point in the investigation "the case" tells me that John and Patsy Ramsey did not kill their daughter, that a very dangerous killer is still out there and no one is actively looking for him. There are still many areas of investigation which must be explored before life and death decisions are made.

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/1211jon1.html

Shoes, shoes, the victim's shoes, who will stand in the victim's shoes?

Good Luck to you and your fine office and may God bless you in the awesome decisions you must soon make.

Sincerely,
Detective Lou Smit

OK...what wrong with this speech/statement...???
:slap: :banghead: :waitasec: :snooty: :liar:
http://www.courttv.com/archive/casefiles/jonbenet/ramsey_letter.html
As you know, our family has not often spoken publicly in the past because so much of what surrounds our tragedy is used to entertain for profit. For my family, the loss of JonBenet was a crushing loss that left us crying out, "Why did this happen to such a precious child? Why did this happen to a good family?" JonBenet's murder has inflicted the worst pain imaginable on my family, and it is simply cruel to exploit her death for profit, as much of the media has, so we have been unwilling to provide fodder for their talk shows. We do feel compelled to speak out at this time as a result of Detective Lou Smit's resignation after 16 months of working to find the killer of our daughter and sister JonBenet. While we are grateful for Detective Smit's work to find JonBenet's killer, we are discouraged to lose his official participation in this case. Detective Smit is the only experienced homicide detective who has ever been assigned long-term to find the killer of JonBenet.

 

[popcorn]

Sorry BB if you don't see the relevance of the underwear but that speck of foreign DNA is about the only thing keeping the Ramseys out of prison. It's not a DNA case as many have said but because there was a deposit in her panties it is an underwear caper nonetheless.

From the thread 'question' by Barbara it came to light in an interview question by Kane, there were 15 pairs of underwear taken from the bathroom drawer; all in sizes 4-6. As in the rest of the days of the week were not seized, if Patsy ever owned them in the first place. It's possible this was a borrowed pair from a pageant or friend of unknown origin as JonBenet was known to have accidents requiring a fresh pair at inpromptu times.

I recall reading somewhere on a Ramsey advocate forum, Patsy or even LL Wood, had that package today. As in they were kept in some obscure location unrelated to the crime scene and not accesible by the police, or therefore supposed intruder.

Also in the interview Patsy clearly states they were no longer in a sealed package but had been opened and mixed into the drawer so how can she have a package today?

 

[Blazeboy3]

Sorry BB if you don't see the relevance of the underwear but that speck of foreign DNA is about the only thing keeping the Ramseys out of prison. It's not a DNA case as many have said but because there was a deposit in her panties it is an underwear caper nonetheless.

From the thread 'question' by Barbara it came to light in an interview question by Kane, there were 15 pairs of underwear taken from the bathroom drawer; all in sizes 4-6. As in the rest of the days of the week were not seized, if Patsy ever owned them in the first place. It's possible this was a borrowed pair from a pageant or friend of unknown origin as JonBenet was known to have accidents requiring a fresh pair at inpromptu times.

I recall reading somewhere on a Ramsey advocate forum, Patsy or even LL Wood, had that package today. As in they were kept in some obscure location unrelated to the crime scene and not accesible by the police, or therefore supposed intruder.

Also in the interview Patsy clearly states they were no longer in a sealed package but had been opened and mixed into the drawer so how can she have a package today?

YUP...I totally agree...silly me... LOL ... IMHO I thought the goal(the R's goal) was to "find JonBenet's killer(s)" NOT "keep them(The Ramseys) out of jail" AND PLUS "let The Ramseys/Lyn Wood make LOTS AND LOTS OF MONEY($$$) FROM LOTS AND LOTS OF LAWSUITS!" ... IMHO The R's/Wood are LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE "BANK!" and we're watching them do so at whose expense??? :twocents: ... ??? !!! :doh: :doh: :doh: @@@ :doh: :doh: :doh: :silenced: :silenced:

Thanks!

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Patsy did not have the package of underwear after private investigators recovered them from the house. Private investigators turned them, and other items they collected, along with photographs of the house, over to Ramsey lawyers who had hired the PI's.

Through chain of custody, the items came into Lin Wood's possesion when the criminal lawyers were no longer retained and LW became the R's civil lawyer. LW turned the panty package over to the Boulder DA.

Furthermore, Kane's statement in the Atlanta interviews does not mesh with the evidence inventory made public. There were many pairs of girl's panties recovered, but not all on same day, not all by same evidence tech. If "15 pairs" of panties had all been removed as potential evidence from the same drawer, I contend that it wouldn't have taken more than one person to collect them on more than one day. Kane exaggerated or generalized, but he was not accurate in his statement.

 

[popcorn]

It does nor present itself as a valid chain of custody for this evidence to come from the defense.

 

[Toltec]

ONLY ONE PAIR COLLECTED FROM JOHN??? Is it possible that his underwear was used to wipe JonBenet down with? Sure it is...but that would have meant that it was male DNA recovered from JB's body.

The only tidy person in the Ramsey household was John and we would expect him to have placed his dirty undies in the clothes hamper. Perhaps he tucked the dirty undies in his body, or worn them under his clean ones when he left the home 26 Dec.

I still believe that Patsy is the killer and it is more likely she is the one who removed John's soiled undies from the home. And as far as the fibers from John's shirt found on JonBenet's crotch area...it is possible that after coming home, John removed his shirt and placed it in the hamper...and Patsy came upon the clothes hamper, removed one of John's undies to wipe JB down with, and the shirt somehow came into contact with the undies...therefore transferring shirt fibers onto his dirty undies.

Rambling on and this is my opinion which cannot be quoted or copied to any other forum.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Popcorn, a defense is allowed just as viable a chain of evidence as any prosecution. You are mistaken.

 

[popcorn]

A better way to word this is the chain of custody has not been established, it requires testimony from the investigator, you know the one that dumped the Ramseys.

 

[Shylock]

Furthermore, Kane's statement in the Atlanta interviews does not mesh with the evidence inventory made public. There were many pairs of girl's panties recovered, but not all on same day, not all by same evidence tech.

So the questions still remain: Where did Patsy have the package of size-12 panties hidden that the evidence techs did not find them and collect them? And why did Patsy lie and say she put them in the drawer?

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Panties were in the opened package and the package was in the drawer. I do not know why the package was not collected but I have already given you the reason I think the package was not collected: it was new, held new, not yet worn panties, and would not hold evidence of incest if incest were to be discovered by way of what was thought to be semen on the body.

Brand new, unworn panties were not of consequence to the BPD.

 

[Shylock]

Popcorn, a defense is allowed just as viable a chain of evidence as any prosecution. You are mistaken.

Not exactly, LP. It gets into a sticky situation and this case is a perfect example. Lip Wood would have to take the stand since he is part of the chain of custody. On the stand he would have to submit to interogation by the prosecution. Most lawyers don't take the stand and testify because everything they know is considered "work product". If they refuse to answer questions, then the prosecution gets the evidence thrown out.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Shylock, I have no fears that chain of custody on those panties will ever be a problem but the package of panties is inconsequential to the case against the intruder, anyway.

 

[Shylock]

Brand new, unworn panties were not of consequence to the BPD.

I don't buy that at all. The BPD was still collecting evidence after the autopsy was performed. They knew she was wearing panties with the day of the week on them. If they saw an opened package with the same panties in it I would think they would put 2 and 2 together and take them as evidence. The answer might be in the crime scene photos the BPD has. One of them might show the drawer and it's contents before the panties were collected. Kane might have had a hidden motive for asking Patsy the underwear questions.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

I don't think Kane's motives hidden. He hoped to have Patsy admit to something incriminating her in JonBenét's murder.

Do you think that Lin Wood would have turned over the package of panties if he knew they were not in crime scene photos of the underwear drawer?

 

[Shylock]

Shylock, I have no fears that chain of custody on those panties will ever be a problem but the package of panties is inconsequential to the case against the intruder, anyway.

The chain of custody is a BIG problem since there is no way of knowing how many of the Ramsey investigators/lawyers handled them and may have contaminated them. More importantly, it may make them useless for testing to see if there is DNA on them that originated in the Asian factory or maybe even in the retail outlet if a customer opened the package or returned them. Handling of the panties may have destroyed or damaged additional DNA that matched what is in the pair she had on.

And for all we know, the foreign DNA might have come from the package itself. Maybe a store worker or male shopper sneezed on the package and that got transfered to her hands and the panties when the package was opened.

 

[popcorn]

It's consequential for the case against the Ramseys.

 

[Ivy]

LP, regardless of whether the size 12 Bloomi panties JonBenet was wearing when her body was found were in the plastic bag until the killer took them out after he killed her, according to Patsy they came from a drawer in a bathroom. How would an intruder know the panties drawer was in the bathroom? Even if he did, why would he risk going clear upstairs to get clean panties to put on her body?

The BPD considered the size 12 panties important. Two of the reasons they gave are posted in bold in the paragraph above.

 

[BlueCrab]

LP, regardless of whether the size 12 Bloomi panties JonBenet was wearing when her body was found were in the plastic bag until the killer took them out after he killed her, according to Patsy they came from a drawer in a bathroom. How would an intruder know the panties drawer was in the bathroom? Even if he did, why would he risk going clear upstairs to get clean panties to put on her body?

The BPD considered the size 12 panties important. Two of the reasons they gave are posted in bold in the paragraph above.

Burke knew where they were. But he didn't know enough to grab a pair of size six panties instead of a pair of size 12 panties. He put them on her anyway. Patsy would have known better.

JMO

 

[Toth]

I rather doubt JonBenet's panties were ever removed, just pulled down and then pulled back up.