GUILTY UT - Brian Mitchell & Wanda Barzee for kidnapping, Salt Lake City, 5 June 2002

[CarpeDiem]

wow, you're being very inflammatory and mean towards our posters.

 

[Moab]

Now that Elizabeth is an adult, she has put herself back in the spotlight with the People Magazine article. As I understand it, she IS currently a public figure by doing so voluntarily. The way I learned the law is that a person who is a public figure by their own doing, as she is now, can be discussed with respect.

There are several things I would like to address in your post, but it can't be done all in one sitting. Elizabeth hasn't recently "just" put herself back "out there". She has contributed for the last five years since her return to helping to educate the public concerning crimes against children.

Whether you and others think it's right or wrong, there are people who believe that Elizabeth's disappearance had an entirely different course than what was told to the public. I don't think they are the type of people who are conspiracy theorists or who see aliens, but who are simply free-thinking people who question not the Stockholm Syndrome phenomenon, but the actions and words of the adult members of the Smart family while Elizabeth was missing and afterwards. Who question how a sketch said to be Richard Ricci and which ultimately led to his death in jail morphed into Mitchell.

First, the sketch was never said to be Ricci. Mary Katherine was adamant that Richard was not the man who took her sister, and she said that from day one and never changed that in any fashion. There were people however who twisted that story around to be some person who married into the Smart family who they thought looked like the picture - and they "were" the conspiracy theorists.

I was asked to state what my friend believes, but I don't know all of the fine points. She has very well thought out ideas of what happened which all makes total sense and the entire theory explains the almost unbelievable statements made by Elizabeth's relatives when she was missing.

Actually, the truth explains this area as well!

Then, Uncle Tom whipped out his camera and poor Elizabeth had to play the harp for them. Her unhappiness is great in the coming home gala photos. The family used her missing status and they used her homecoming, in my opinion, and that's wrong, again in my opinion.

Maybe this will help debunk the "Uncle Tom" photo shoot:

"The raw emotional scenes of joy that must have been taking place in the Smart household were strictly off-limits and out of reach to photographers - except for Tom Smart, a photographer with the Deseret News who happens to be Elizabeth's uncle.

"There was really nothing that showed (Elizabeth) with her family that showed she was okay," said Tom. "I felt strongly that the world's been praying for this little girl." Obviously, they would now want to see her.

"People would try to get a photo of her one way or another," said Smart. And "It wasn't a situation where you could bring in a pool as far as intruding on the family.

"It was really important to me that it wasn't a situation where we were trying to take advantage of her. But simply a way for the world to see that she was okay and with her family. And that there was a lot of joy and happiness there.

"I talked to Ed and Lois (Elizabeth's parents) about it and they said I could take some photos. Some of the photos are posed of the family. A lot of them are actually photojournalism. The one of her holding her little brother - it was a true captured moment. Just by chance my parents came and that was the first time they had seen her and I got to document that."

By shooting the photographs on his own time, Smart owns the rights to the images. They were given to AP, AFP, and Reuters to distribute for one-time use. Tom struck a deal with Getty that gives his share of any future proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Another important part of the deal for Tom was that there would be no exclusive sales. The photos would be available to all.

"It went around the world," said Smart. "I'd like to think that it was a good thing to do."
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/911

(You have to scroll at least halfway down the page)

I also don't think Elizabeth looks "greatly unhappy" here either.
​

 

[twinkiesmom]

I remember the interview with the doctor who examined her, who was her AUNT. This is why the conspiracy theories perpetuate...it's the strange behavior of the adults in the case and the family dynamics which are very strange to non-Mormons.

 

[pedinurse]

People magazine is undoubtedly doing the story because of all the advocacy work Elizabeth has done in the five years that she has been back. She does a lot of public speaking addressing crimes against children, she and her father both helped Adam Walsh publicize the Adam Walsh Child Protection Act which was signed into law by President Bush in July of 2006. Hardly acts of a person guilty of anything other than being a victim.

MOAB - i don't think that anyone here thinks that she had anything to do with what happened to her. I think that what she has done since her return is awesome. it takes a lot of time and energy to do all the things she has done in the past few years.
i agree that ES is the victim in this case... no matter what may have happened to her.
people magazine will do stories on what sells money. it is a symbiotic relationship. ES will get more publicity for her cause, and people will sell magazines. it is good for both of them. i do not see anything wrong with her doing the article. however, i will humbly point out there are people who do as much or more advocacy work in this country who never, ever get an article in people magazine.

 

[pedinurse]

I remember the interview with the doctor who examined her, who was her AUNT. This is why the conspiracy theories perpetuate...it's the strange behavior of the adults in the case and the family dynamics which are very strange to non-Mormons.

OK, i am rejecting the dr. exam!! lol!!!


i thought family members were not supposed to treat each other.

 

[pedinurse]

There are several things I would like to address in your post, but it can't be done all in one sitting. Elizabeth hasn't recently "just" put herself back "out there". She has contributed for the last five years since her return to helping to educate the public concerning crimes against children.




First, the sketch was never said to be Ricci. Mary Katherine was adamant that Richard was not the man who took her sister, and she said that from day one and never changed that in any fashion. There were people however who twisted that story around to be some person who married into the Smart family who they thought looked like the picture - and they "were" the conspiracy theorists.



Actually, the truth explains this area as well!



Maybe this will help debunk the "Uncle Tom" photo shoot:

"The raw emotional scenes of joy that must have been taking place in the Smart household were strictly off-limits and out of reach to photographers - except for Tom Smart, a photographer with the Deseret News who happens to be Elizabeth's uncle.

"There was really nothing that showed (Elizabeth) with her family that showed she was okay," said Tom. "I felt strongly that the world's been praying for this little girl." Obviously, they would now want to see her.

"People would try to get a photo of her one way or another," said Smart. And "It wasn't a situation where you could bring in a pool as far as intruding on the family.

"It was really important to me that it wasn't a situation where we were trying to take advantage of her. But simply a way for the world to see that she was okay and with her family. And that there was a lot of joy and happiness there.

"I talked to Ed and Lois (Elizabeth's parents) about it and they said I could take some photos. Some of the photos are posed of the family. A lot of them are actually photojournalism. The one of her holding her little brother - it was a true captured moment. Just by chance my parents came and that was the first time they had seen her and I got to document that."

By shooting the photographs on his own time, Smart owns the rights to the images. They were given to AP, AFP, and Reuters to distribute for one-time use. Tom struck a deal with Getty that gives his share of any future proceeds to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Another important part of the deal for Tom was that there would be no exclusive sales. The photos would be available to all.

"It went around the world," said Smart. "I'd like to think that it was a good thing to do."
http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/911

(You have to scroll at least halfway down the page)​

I also don't think Elizabeth looks "greatly unhappy" here either.​

have you seen the pics of her playing the harp as soon as she came back? she looked pissed!
the dr exam was by her aunt? the photos were by her uncle? wow... this really was just a family deal.

i have to say that until recently, it has been Ed Smart talking with Elizabeth standing there. Elizabeth really didn't talk much at all. Now, in the past year or so, we are hearing from Elizabeth herself alone more. I think that is what SeekingJana is referring to.

 

[pedinurse]

See, your last sentence is a big problem with some of these posts. On the one hand you try and say something positive but then you're true feelings come out and you can't stop there, you have to add a bash to Elizabeth - "there are people who do as much or more advocacy work in this country who never, ever get an article in people magazine." That's her fault too?? Get real.

it wasn't a bash. the poster i replied to was talking about how she was being interviewed because of the advocacy work she has done in the past five years.
it is more because she is a public figure and victim in a high profile case who is doing such a large amount of advocacy work. i am not bashing her... are you by repeatedly trying to make others out to be? I was just making the point that there ARE people who do as much or more in this country, and are never recongized... Elizabeth had a high profile case, so her work is more easily found AND people will find an interest in it. i say stop trying to pick fights with other posters that you don't agree with.

 

[michelle]

Elizabeth Smart putting the smackdown on NG.....I remember this interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x8ARIxg51I

 

[pedinurse]

Elizabeth Smart putting the smackdown on NG.....I remember this interview. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x8ARIxg51I

i have to say that NG shouldn't have pushed forward after she said no. NG did a TON of press for her case when she was missing, however, and took a special interest in the case... as I am sure a lot of viewers did. i think it is hard to understand that a person who is now a public person of interest BECAUSE of a crime doesn't want to talk about it.

what do you guys think of ES behavior during that interview? i think she was just getting ticked... i would like to see the whole thing, but she was getting really short with nancy then let her have it! i think i even saw an eye roll! i wonder if she had said "stop" before the clip even started.

 

[pedinurse]

Nope, none of what you said. And you, but not only you, sure as heck were mean and hurtful towards ES. Claiming she was pregnant and sent away? Claiming she was pregnant or just gave birth when she got home. Claiming she is lying now, was lying after her return, was payed by People so somehow her most recent remarks might be less credible. Etc., etc. Nice treatment of a victim - Not!

why don't you try re-reading what i wrote and come back to me?

maybe then you'll stop harrassing and attacking me.

 

[michelle]

i have to say that NG shouldn't have pushed forward after she said no. NG did a TON of press for her case when she was missing, however, and took a special interest in the case... as I am sure a lot of viewers did. i think it is hard to understand that a person who is now a public person of interest BECAUSE of a crime doesn't want to talk about it.

what do you guys think of ES behavior during that interview? i think she was just getting ticked... i would like to see the whole thing, but she was getting really short with nancy then let her have it! i think i even saw an eye roll! i wonder if she had said "stop" before the clip even started.

I did see her roll her eyes, shes a strong girl and set NG straight.

 

[Moab]

have you seen the pics of her playing the harp as soon as she came back? she looked pissed!
the dr exam was by her aunt? the photos were by her uncle? wow... this really was just a family deal.

i have to say that until recently, it has been Ed Smart talking with Elizabeth standing there. Elizabeth really didn't talk much at all. Now, in the past year or so, we are hearing from Elizabeth herself alone more. I think that is what SeekingJana is referring to.

I have never heard that she was examined by her Aunt, and I don't believe she was. The PR person was the first person to announce the Non-pregnancy issue from a hospital report, and her father and Aunt later said the same thing.

 

[Moab]

i have to say that NG shouldn't have pushed forward after she said no. NG did a TON of press for her case when she was missing, however, and took a special interest in the case... as I am sure a lot of viewers did. i think it is hard to understand that a person who is now a public person of interest BECAUSE of a crime doesn't want to talk about it.

NG knew the details of her sexual abuse were not going to be allowed, and she still tried to bring it up!

I don't think it is hard at all to understand why she doesn't want to discuss the intimate details of her sexual abuse on national TV!

Elizabeth will still need to testify at trial if Barzee and Mitchell are ever deemed competent, whe is the ONLY place the details should come out.

 

[deanws]

I have never heard that she was examined by her Aunt, and I don't believe she was. The PR person was the first person to announce the Non-pregnancy issue from a hospital report, and her father and Aunt later said the same thing.

It is a miracle she wasn't if he was abusing her sexually. Poor thing. Can you imagine having that smelly, greasy thing pawing at you!?!?! UGGG! Poor little girl. She was just a baby of 14.

 

[deanws]

I never said anything about Elizabeth. She was a victim no matter what happened!

Agreed OLG. She was a child and the adults in this situation are and should be held totally responsible.

 

[pedinurse]

NG knew the details of her sexual abuse were not going to be allowed, and she still tried to bring it up!

I don't think it is hard at all to understand why she doesn't want to discuss the intimate details of her sexual abuse on national TV!

Elizabeth will still need to testify at trial if Barzee and Mitchell are ever deemed competent, whe is the ONLY place the details should come out.

In the end, it WILL need to be saved for the trial. you don't want to jepordize that.

NG was asking about the campsite, why she didn't call out, if she heard people yelling for her, etc. Then she started asking about the Berka. not specifically about her sexual abuse, but still... what she DID ask about was getting into murkey waters. those are things that had been talked about already 4 years prior or had been OBVIOUS (IE, the berka!) and didn't need to be rehashed four years later to an 18 year old (who had made it clear she didn't want to talk about it).

 

[pedinurse]

Agreed OLG. She was a child and the adults in this situation are and should be held totally responsible.

i totally agree!

 

[CarpeDiem]

why don't you try re-reading what i wrote and come back to me?

maybe then you'll stop harrassing and attacking me.

Have re-read, doesn't change it. And see it's not about you, or a fantasy that you (or other's) are now being harrassed and attacked, it's about the attacking of Elizabeth that needed to stop.

 

[deanws]

In the end, it WILL need to be saved for the trial. you don't want to jepordize that.

NG was asking about the campsite, why she didn't call out, if she heard people yelling for her, etc. Then she started asking about the Berka. not specifically about her sexual abuse, but still... what she DID ask about was getting into murkey waters. those are things that had been talked about already 4 years prior or had been OBVIOUS (IE, the berka!) and didn't need to be rehashed four years later to an 18 year old (who had made it clear she didn't want to talk about it).

Exactly!!!:clap: Good post.

 

[pedinurse]

It is a miracle she wasn't if he was abusing her sexually. Poor thing. Can you imagine having that smelly, greasy thing pawing at you!?!?! UGGG! Poor little girl. She was just a baby of 14.

i have to agree... especially after nine months of it! ugh... i have to say that i remember when i saw the news reports.. and heck, when i see their pics now... i throw up a little in my mouth. they are two gross, nasty people!!