GUILTY UT - Brian Mitchell & Wanda Barzee for kidnapping, Salt Lake City, 5 June 2002

[Littledeer]

Thanks! I'll try it again.

I was involved in this case prior to being a WS member, so only got newspaper articles. But wanted to read what you posters had to say along the way.

Elizabeth is such a pretty girl!! I think she is well balanced at the moment, and hopefully that will continue. I'm not sure that not having any counseling was the best course, but only time will tell.

She reminds me alot of Shawn Hornbeck. Wonder if they have ever talked with each other?

 

[deanws]

Thanks! I'll try it again.

I was involved in this case prior to being a WS member, so only got newspaper articles. But wanted to read what you posters had to say along the way.

Elizabeth is such a pretty girl!! I think she is well balanced at the moment, and hopefully that will continue. I'm not sure that not having any counseling was the best course, but only time will tell.

She reminds me alot of Shawn Hornbeck. Wonder if they have ever talked with each other?

She is beautiful isn't she? I am also glad she is well balanced. An experience like what she went through could really screw up a person, especially at such a young age.

 

[Moab]

In the end, it WILL need to be saved for the trial. you don't want to jepordize that.

NG was asking about the campsite, why she didn't call out, if she heard people yelling for her, etc. Then she started asking about the Berka. not specifically about her sexual abuse, but still... what she DID ask about was getting into murkey waters. those are things that had been talked about already 4 years prior or had been OBVIOUS (IE, the berka!) and didn't need to be rehashed four years later to an 18 year old (who had made it clear she didn't want to talk about it).

I agree. She was there to talk about the upcoming bill, not her abduction.

 

[PSUfan]

People magazine is undoubtedly doing the story because of all the advocacy work Elizabeth has done in the five years that she has been back. She does a lot of public speaking addressing crimes against children, she and her father both helped Adam Walsh publicize the Adam Walsh Child Protection Act which was signed into law by President Bush in July of 2006. Hardly acts of a person guilty of anything other than being a victim.

:clap::clap: And the parents were guilty of nothing but trying to protect her, in not wanting to discuss any sexual molestation details, etc.

This family has handled this with class. If anything more was behind all of this, the investigators would've found out about it. I applaud the family for shielding her from the publicity when she was first rescued. I also applaud her for publicly advocating child protection legislation. She is a class act.

But of course, conspiracy theories are more fun than the sometimes boring truth.

 

[golfmom]

Well, since the conspiracy in my world is that the investigators are hiding something. I don't hold much stock in them investigating anything.

 

[Moab]

Well, since the conspiracy in my world is that the investigators are hiding something. I don't hold much stock in them investigating anything.

I guess I don't understand what you think is being hidden by the investigators, and then why would they hide something? Seems to me after the brow beating that LE took over this case, if there was something there, it would have come out, especially as LE made the attempt to defend themselves and the choices they made during the investigation. I can't see LE keeping quiet if something was amiss, especially if it would exonerate them!

 

[golfmom]

I guess I don't understand what you think is being hidden by the investigators, and then why would they hide something? Seems to me after the brow beating that LE took over this case, if there was something there, it would have come out, especially as LE made the attempt to defend themselves and the choices they made during the investigation. I can't see LE keeping quiet if something was amiss, especially if it would exonerate them!

I don't think that they are covering something up that would exonerate them, but would actually make them look worse. Hence the reason for a cover-up.

 

[Claycat]

I don't know if it really was a specific thing. Just a sense of unease that something wasn't quite right with this case.

I'm really struggling to put into words why exactly something seems off to me.

It's funny, because I just posted something like this on youtube under a video of Nancy Grace trying to question Elizabeth Smart. I've always felt uneasy with this one. Why did she not try to get help? Why was she so easy to brainwash. Weird!

 

[Bobbisangel]

I thought that the abductor was someone that had come to the house once as a repair person or something. When he was identified, I thought the family knew who he was.

I believe that Mr or Mrs Smart hired him to help with some roofing or something like that. They didn't know him. Just thought he could use some money and so they put him to work. Can't even rememer how they came across him. It is a huge mistake to bring people into your home around your children when you know nothing about them. Evidenally he had been inside the house too as he knew which bedroom Elizabeth was sleeping in. It would have made more sense to me if he had taken the younger girl instead of a big 14 yr old girl. Does anyone remember if he had a weapon that he threatened her with to get her to go with him?

 

[Bobbisangel]

Is it true that Smarts didn't put Elizabeth into therapy after she returned home? I thought I heard Ed Smart say something about planning to have her counseled by a counselor from their church. For Elizabeth's sake I hope she got some counseling....a lot of it. If not, in my opinion, that will come back to haunt her parents and her. You can't have horrible things happen to you and not have someone help you process them and heal. You can't just stuff everything down inside and expect it to stay there forever. It doesn't work that way. Not talking about it and expecting it to just go away isn't even healthy. If she didn't have therapy I look for her to have problems as she gets older. Especially in relationships.

 

[becklynn]

Is it true that Smarts didn't put Elizabeth into therapy after she returned home? I thought I heard Ed Smart say something about planning to have her counseled by a counselor from their church. For Elizabeth's sake I hope she got some counseling....a lot of it. If not, in my opinion, that will come back to haunt her parents and her. You can't have horrible things happen to you and not have someone help you process them and heal. You can't just stuff everything down inside and expect it to stay there forever. It doesn't work that way. Not talking about it and expecting it to just go away isn't even healthy. If she didn't have therapy I look for her to have problems as she gets older. Especially in relationships.

Hi Bobbisangel. I saw a couple of interviews where she spoke and her dad spoke about her going thru counceling. I think they encouraged her to talk about it too much actually. She talks about it like a robot with no feeling at all. That is just my opinion of course. Her dad seems to be kind of aloof too. The whole family seems a little strange to me. But then again they have been thru a hell I could never imagine.

 

[CarpeDiem]

I believe that Mr or Mrs Smart hired him to help with some roofing or something like that. They didn't know him. Just thought he could use some money and so they put him to work. Can't even rememer how they came across him. It is a huge mistake to bring people into your home around your children when you know nothing about them. Evidenally he had been inside the house too as he knew which bedroom Elizabeth was sleeping in. It would have made more sense to me if he had taken the younger girl instead of a big 14 yr old girl. Does anyone remember if he had a weapon that he threatened her with to get her to go with him?

Yes, he had a knife, had never been inside the house, but watched and stalked them for awhile from the woods behind the home. He fixated on Elizabeth from the first time he saw her.

Elizabeth was chained to a tree for three months. If you pic up the people mag article or google, you will find the campsite (and a lot of other info on the case), you can see how he was able to hide her when the search was most earnest, it was like dug in the ground, with an underbrush canopy made for a roof. From even a short distance it totally blended in.

Edited to add:

Pics of campsite:
http://www.trvnews.com/tsl/040403/index.html

Article from March, 2003, first prosecutor remarks:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/smart/smart29.html

 

[Moab]

Is it true that Smarts didn't put Elizabeth into therapy after she returned home? I thought I heard Ed Smart say something about planning to have her counseled by a counselor from their church. For Elizabeth's sake I hope she got some counseling....a lot of it. If not, in my opinion, that will come back to haunt her parents and her. You can't have horrible things happen to you and not have someone help you process them and heal. You can't just stuff everything down inside and expect it to stay there forever. It doesn't work that way. Not talking about it and expecting it to just go away isn't even healthy. If she didn't have therapy I look for her to have problems as she gets older. Especially in relationships.

Her father said they wouldn't "force" her into counseling just like they wouldn't force her to talk about things before she was ready to, if ever. She and the family have had counseling. I think it was a wise decision to allow her not to be forced into recounting things before she was ready. She has come out of this on the other side a strong young lady who places more importance on her future than what happened to her in her past. She feels recounting it - gives it power. She has taken the power into other areas of her life, such as college and advocacy.

 

[Moab]

Why did she not try to get help? Why was she so easy to brainwash. Weird!

She was a 14-year old child who was told her family would be killed.

 

[believe09]

I think that she has a serenity about her that is unusual for sure. I thought the People Magazine article was disturbing-they talked about the security systems that surround her...and that she was assaulted without defining what the assault was on any level. They other victims who assisted her with the pamphlet were far more straightforward regarding the crimes and their aftermath....odd.

 

[Moab]

And went on LKL and talked about " what a blessing" her being missing was " to the family" at the time she was still missing.

Tom was talking about what a "blessing it was" that there were so many people volunteering to help a little girl that they didn't even know, from the 6000+ searchers to the people providing food for the searchers and the search center staff, to the news media for keeping the story and her picture out there.

Her uncle said some extremely bizarre things which I can look up if I can find them. ( I am not too good at that sort of thing, but my friend can quote everything he said and remembers everything he did). He finally was " excused" from some of the mega- family TV interviews everywhere because Uncle Tom ran his mouth and said some things which didn't go along with what the family as a whole were saying.

No one running on total lack of sleep will be coherent all of the time while under such duress. Tom Smart excused himself from several interviews. What came from such ramblings was a vow that if they had not had at least 4 hours sleep, they would not talk to the media. That is why you saw her Aunt speaking a lot of the time, or someone else who was not working around the clock at the search center or out actively searching for 18-20 hours a day. It is a good policy to go by.

During the investigation, the family were told/coached by the police and the FBI as to what they could discuss and what they couldn't discuss in media interviews. The family and the police were not always on the same page as well. LE was refusing to do what the family was asking. When one is answering questions from the media, one doesn't always know what is going to be asked. There were a lot of disjointed answers due to this and the restrictions on the family to discuss certain subjects and people.

Some people believe that Uncle Tom had some very strong reasons of his very own for wanting Richard Ricci locked up and quieted.

What reasons could there possibly be? All it takes is one person to start saying stuff like this, with no foundation, and it takes on a life of its own. If there had been some nefarious reason, it would have come out within LE's internal investigation, or the investigation into Ricci's death. That is unfounded and ludicrous, and how reputations are ruined.

How many plump kidnapping victims do we ever see?

How many are returned to be used as a basis for analysis?

 

[pedinurse]

ok, i have gone without sleep before... i don't think that is a good excuse for silly comments!!

what were the comments, exactly??

 

[pedinurse]

Moab - i think the question is more "how likely is it that a girl who was with indigents for 9 months, with no consistent means of transportation (lots of walking) who hiked into the mountains - not to mention that they had no consistent food sources or income - have fed all three of them so well that Elizabeth became plump, not thin or stayed the same."

I'm not saying it can't happen... I'm just saying it is WOULD be surprising. You know what i mean? she was dependent on them for everything - food, etc. Indigents / homeless are not known for being able to access food easily, even though there may be homeless shelters with soup kitchens nearby. I don't usually bring up the nursing thing, but I will tell you that one of the first things you worry about, once you get a patient stabilized - in the hospital (if they are homeless, that is) is NUTRITIONAL STATUS. Because it can effect healing, etc. We assess it for everyone, but homeless is a big read flag to investigate further.

 

[SeekingJana]

Pedinurse, your rationale is valid. Moab keeps trying to engage me in argument, but I will never respond.
I appreciate what you have rebutted.
Maria

 

[deanws]

I did see her roll her eyes, shes a strong girl and set NG straight.

The questions NG was asking her were STUPID!:bang: