GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #2

[minor4th]

The drugs are so important. I think a layperson can understand half-life if they've ever been on medication. And nobody takes Ambien in the morning, as has been said.

I used to manage a plastic surgery office in Tennessee. We had a surgery suite in our office. I can say with certainty that none of our facelift patients were on that much post op medication.

I think the jury might tune out some of the technical testimony -- simply based on my own reaction to the testimony. But I certainly think they will understand the important aspects that I highlighted in a post above ^^

 

[Bravo]

I think the testimony is compelling & with concentrated attention a layman (which includes the jurors) could learn a great deal about the presence of 4 prescribed (highly controlled) drugs in Michele's postmortem body. There is dispute over the dispersion and measurement after death, but clearly there was a concentration of several drugs which all carry a depressive effect on central nervous system.

HOWEVER, after the Casey Anthony verdict, I will never completely trust a jury to listen attentively, accurately assess the information and reach a reasonable conclusion based on evidence presented.

I hear ya on the "12" verdict. Yes all those meds would depress the CNS. I did study Pharmacology and had to. While I found it "dry" I had to pay attention as less than 90% was a fail requiring a retake of the whole course. So I guess my point is perhaps the Jurors are paying attention because they are required to.

 

[Ina Cognito]

Im glad they are going through the toxicology slowly and clearly. The whole basis for the case is that he over medicated her. So it is really vital that the jury get this part completely.

I agree however, I think this witness has been too technical when it was not needed and too specific when he need not be. It can cause confusion

 

[Dmacky]

is the jury still in the courtroom?

Yes, they are napping.

 

[minor4th]

Ok, so when the trial started, I thought it was the state's theory that Martin overdosed her and it was the overdose that killed Michele. But that is not their theory -- and thank goodness because that's not a viable theory.

It seems their theory is that Martin went back home, somehow drugged Michele, and drowned her while she was semi-conscious and unable to fully resist. However, I don't remember the state saying that in opening statement. And there's no explanation about how Martin would have gotten her to take all of those drugs that morning since she was no longer relying on him to give her the medications.

 

[Thundar]

Did not overdose on any one drug.....idividually none were too high or too low........taking into account the wildest post mortem count the redistribution ......add them together mild cognitive impairment to unconciousness.......

the individual would be unable to respond...not able to respond...unable to understand their surroundings at that time....motor skills would be affected.......

It took all this time to get to this...the important part!

 

[Zuri]

I just thought of something. Does anyone know if a tox screen was done in the ER? Normally, they are done if it is reported that patient was on pain meds etc. Also Narcan is usually given to reverse the effects of narcotics that affect respiratory depression. There is No reversal agent for Benzos. Is it possible these were given and the levels of narcotics could have actually been higher?

 

[popsicle]

Ok, so when the trial started, I thought it was the state's theory that Martin overdosed her and it was the overdose that killed Michele. But that is not their theory -- and thank goodness because that's not a viable theory.

It seems their theory is that Martin went back home, somehow drugged Michele, and drowned her while she was semi-conscious and unable to fully resist. However, I don't remember the state saying that in opening statement. And there's no explanation about how Martin would have gotten her to take all of those drugs that morning since she was no longer relying on him to give her the medications.

I think he crushed them into food/drink and she was drugged before he left...rushed home and drowned her and then picked his daughter up.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

In spite of this voir dire and the maze of testimony, the jury will focus on the fact that she took Ambien in the morning and a lot of other drugs. She was down to two Percocet a day!

I'm looking forward to Alexis getting up and testifying from memory what she gave her mother and the fact that MM virtually od'd her the previous night.

Another biggie for the jury: consciousness of guilt... throwing the pills away, trying to get rid of wet and bloody clothing and stuff, DISAPPEARING records of Alexis. Thanks to Rachel, they were saved, even if they were washed. There's a lot more evidence of consciousness of guilt... would make a large list.

Will Alexis be allowed to testify? I thought the judge ruled most if not all of her testimony as inadmissable?

 

[Italy]

I hear ya on the "12" verdict. Yes all those meds would depress the CNS. I did study Pharmacology and had too. While I found it "dry" I had to pay attention as less than 90% was a fail requiring a retake of the whole course. So I guess my point is perhaps they Jurors are paying attention because they are required too.

I agree with you. I too struggled w/ the requisites that I found uninteresting.

I think his testimony coupled w/ the testimony of the two people who testified that drugs were prescribed to Michele only after a specific request by Martin MacNeill will be compelling.

I think he has made the point that while each one of the drugs, in the concentration he identified, would not be toxic, in combination there is a high probability of adverse even lethal reaction.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Is this judge allowed to ask such leading questions of the attorneys? I feel like he is spoon feeding them, primarily the defense. Anybody else?

Besides me? I don't know.

 

[Bravo]

Yes, they are napping.

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[zoey]

Ok, so when the trial started, I thought it was the state's theory that Martin overdosed her and it was the overdose that killed Michele. But that is not their theory -- and thank goodness because that's not a viable theory.

It seems their theory is that Martin went back home, somehow drugged Michele, and drowned her while she was semi-conscious and unable to fully resist. However, I don't remember the state saying that in opening statement. And there's no explanation about how Martin would have gotten her to take all of those drugs that morning since she was no longer relying on him to give her the medications.

Crusdh them and put them in food

 

[scorekeeper]

he also got one of the scripts filled in liquid form, I believe

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

he also got one of the scripts filled in liquid form, I believe

This is big to me.. What adult wants liquid meds???

 

[ziggy]

I'm curious too how he would get her to take the pills. I've taken most of those meds at one time or another- IMO they are way too bitter to be disguised in a drink. He could have ground them, put them in capsules and told her she needed antibiotics because her incisions were still weeping? Or he may have told her they were harmless supplements like calcium or vitamin C. A vegetarian gel capsule would break down pretty quickly.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Ok, so when the trial started, I thought it was the state's theory that Martin overdosed her and it was the overdose that killed Michele. But that is not their theory -- and thank goodness because that's not a viable theory.

It seems their theory is that Martin went back home, somehow drugged Michele, and drowned her while she was semi-conscious and unable to fully resist. However, I don't remember the state saying that in opening statement. And there's no explanation about how Martin would have gotten her to take all of those drugs that morning since she was no longer relying on him to give her the medications.

Weren't one or two of the medicines MacNeill demanded of the face life surgeon to be administered rectally? Maybe he slipped some into her morning coffee or tea etc and the rest after she was heavily sedated?

 

[Italy]

I suspect the Defense team will be frantically searching for Peer Reviewed material that is not anecdotal on the measurement of drugs in a body post-mortem.

Tho his testimony was full of medical jargon and much was difficult to understand, I do think he presented his credentials well and he came across as an expert witness. Clearly he knows this stuff and I don't think some article the Defense happens to find on Google to refute some of his claims will do much to undermine his testimony. Clearly Michelle MacNeill had a high concentration of highly-controlled drugs in her system at the time of her death. Drugs which both individually and in combination depress the central nervous system.

 

[ziggy]

Also, we used to give patients an Arnica supplement for bruising and swelling and it came in capsule form. My cosmetic dermatologist also uses the arnica capsules.

 

[Zuri]

Ok, so when the trial started, I thought it was the state's theory that Martin overdosed her and it was the overdose that killed Michele. But that is not their theory -- and thank goodness because that's not a viable theory.

It seems their theory is that Martin went back home, somehow drugged Michele, and drowned her while she was semi-conscious and unable to fully resist. However, I don't remember the state saying that in opening statement. And there's no explanation about how Martin would have gotten her to take all of those drugs that morning since she was no longer relying on him to give her the medications.

Jumping off your post. Something has struck me odd. For Michelle to have drowned, and no signs of struggle on her part or on MM, Michelle must have been almost comatose with severe respiratory depression.

Try holding your breath for as long as you can. You can't hold it for long as it is an autonomic reflex, a brain stem function. Something is very strange here that, as reported so far, does not make a lot of sense, medically or logically.

What am I missing?