The details concerning the alleged 2003 sighting San Francisco and 2005 Curacao sighting are incredible sparse. Also, how would Amy enter and exit the U.S., post-9/11, without a trace?Also from the verified insider, FindAmy...
VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3
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To be fair, the “forensically examined” photographs and “persons of interest” have not been found to have any relevance in this case by numerous experts. There are some family members and others who think they may be clues. I don’t think any photo looks remotely like her, in my opinion. People, of course, see things differently.
Given that they're from other countries and may not be as familiar with the FBI as Americans are, they may not even know that. Also, they may be in fear for their lives. Supposedly there was a warning on a message board to stay away from Yellow. I certainly wouldn't risk it if I were in their shoes.The FBI is offering a reward of up to $25,000. I would think that would be even more incentive for someone to tell what they know.
*including MSM regarding the reward.
Missing for 25 years: FBI searching for woman who disappeared on family vacation in 1998
Authorities continue searching for a woman who went missing while she was on a cruise to the Caribbean with her family more than 25 years ago.wpde.com
What strikes me about the elevator sightings is that they were given by three different people.
If Amy did go overboard, I think she jumped. I have never felt right about her just falling over that railing, drunk or not.
Alcohol often exasperates depressive thoughts and can trigger suicidal urges. She had (allegedly) just come out to her parents. Maybe something was said to Amy that triggered something already building up inside of her.
Personally, I just don't think Amy was sex trafficked. I have met victims of trafficking and know a lot on the topic. Amy just doesn't fit the profile. Neither does the location in which she was last seen.
However, I do find it interesting that the FBI is still searching for Amy. If she went overboard, her body is never going to be recovered from that ocean. Especially not after nearly three decades.
It's unusual for FBI agents to do interviews on a case, unless they're trying to drag some information out from the public. Maybe old allegiances have changed. If the FBI believed that Amy fell over board by accident, then there would be no need to publicize her case now.
IMO it's very possible that Amy was murdered on that cruise ship and her body thrown overboard. The murder, IMO, would've been sexually motivated. I believe that the FBI may have evidence to support this and investigators are hoping for a Hail Mary at the last hour.
Alcohol often exasperates depressive thoughts and can trigger suicidal urges. She had (allegedly) just come out to her parents. Maybe something was said to Amy that triggered something already building up inside of her.
Personally, I just don't think Amy was sex trafficked. I have met victims of trafficking and know a lot on the topic. Amy just doesn't fit the profile. Neither does the location in which she was last seen.
However, I do find it interesting that the FBI is still searching for Amy. If she went overboard, her body is never going to be recovered from that ocean. Especially not after nearly three decades.
It's unusual for FBI agents to do interviews on a case, unless they're trying to drag some information out from the public. Maybe old allegiances have changed. If the FBI believed that Amy fell over board by accident, then there would be no need to publicize her case now.
IMO it's very possible that Amy was murdered on that cruise ship and her body thrown overboard. The murder, IMO, would've been sexually motivated. I believe that the FBI may have evidence to support this and investigators are hoping for a Hail Mary at the last hour.
We cannot make the assumption they were marginalised or that they wouldn’t report suspicious behaviour. I’m sure the FBI questioned the staff who were at the disco/bar that morning based on the information supposedly given by the girl who said she saw Amy with the band guy around 6am at the bar. Also, if people were up having breakfast and getting ready to disembark at the port, then she would have been seen surely.
She was seen with Yellow by three different witnesses.
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SBMFF
Would it though? Human trafficking happens on cruise ships, that's a fact (links below). The only subject up for debate is whether or not a kidnapping on the ship would be implausible and if we're going to say a kidnapping in the early morning hours when the common areas aren't overflowing with fellow cruisers, is implausible, then I'd think we could also say most kidnappings would be implausible. Yet, we're on a board filled with threads about abductions, so we know that's not true.
I actually don't think it's implausible that she was abducted from that ship nor do I think it's implausible that she was trafficked. I think the FBI's response to this, including the Grand Jury testimony of the witnesses suggests they believe a crime was committed.
Human Trafficking and the Hospitality Industry | Homeland Security
Traffickers often take advantage of the privacy and anonymity accessible through the hospitality industry.
Port Expands Pledge Against Human Trafficking to Maritime and Cruise Partners
The Port of Seattle today announced the expansion of its Port Allies Against Human Trafficking (PAAHT) pledge to include Crystal Cruises, Holland America Line, Seabourn, Princess Cruises, Carnival Cruise Line, Royal Caribbean Group, and The Center for Wooden Boats. The pledge was originally...
Human Trafficking in Maritime Industries: How Seaports Can Interrupt and Prevent It
U.S. federal law defines human trafficking as the use of force, fraud, or coercion to compel a person into any form of labor or commercial sex act, as well as the exchange of anything of value for a sex act with a minor.
www.aapaseaports.com
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Why would they report anything about a random person they saw? Nothing any of them saw would be worthy of a police report without the context. This is actually the least suspicious thing about the whole thing, IMO.
This is actually very unlikely. The human brain doesn't manufacture details of personal experience that easily. If it did, then all of us would be at risk of mind control anytime we watch a movie or play a video game.
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I haven't seen any expert dismissing the witnesses. Can you provide a link please?
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The first two links dont say anything of the sort. The third one is specifically about (labor) trafficking, eg “..there were at least 128,000 fishers being trafficked in the fishing industry…”
So while I don’t disagree that trafficking exists, these links aren’t convincing evidence that ALB was or could have been sex trafficked on a cruise ship.
I realize how absurd the trafficking theory is. I realize that traffickers usually target minorities and underprivileged children. I realize that the notion of someone fitting Amy's profile being trafficked sound ridiculous. But that doesn't mean it's impossible, and it also doesn't mean they intended to use Amy for sex trafficking.
Whoever did it may not have been a criminal mastermind or even have possessed above-average intelligence. They may have been new at the job and untrained, and it just so happened that they were successful. Or something inside them may have been triggered somehow, which caused them to carry out this plan even with Amy as a suboptimal target. Or maybe someone in their network was attracted to Amy and wanted her despite the risks. Or maybe they just wanted to see if they could get away with it. Or maybe her profile fit a different use case for her that wasn't sex trafficking, but something else entirely. Maybe Amy really was trafficked for a reason that's just unknown to anyone outside of that group.
I can't get past all the sightings, especially the one where David Carmichael apparently identified the specific unusual watch that Amy was wearing, which was info never released to the public, and then testified about it before a grand jury. That combined with the FBI effort in the case just makes me think there's a lot more to this. I know that many or most disagree.
Whoever did it may not have been a criminal mastermind or even have possessed above-average intelligence. They may have been new at the job and untrained, and it just so happened that they were successful. Or something inside them may have been triggered somehow, which caused them to carry out this plan even with Amy as a suboptimal target. Or maybe someone in their network was attracted to Amy and wanted her despite the risks. Or maybe they just wanted to see if they could get away with it. Or maybe her profile fit a different use case for her that wasn't sex trafficking, but something else entirely. Maybe Amy really was trafficked for a reason that's just unknown to anyone outside of that group.
I can't get past all the sightings, especially the one where David Carmichael apparently identified the specific unusual watch that Amy was wearing, which was info never released to the public, and then testified about it before a grand jury. That combined with the FBI effort in the case just makes me think there's a lot more to this. I know that many or most disagree.
So why Amy? Why was Amy targeted by this sex trafficking group? Presumably there were other young women aboard the ship. Maybe even some who were there without their parents. What did Amy have that they wanted so badly? She looked, to me, like a pretty average young woman with short hair.
There is a very small window of time between when Amy was last seen by her Dad on the balcony, and when she disappeared from the balcony. Only half an hour to forty five minutes. Was this, then, a crime of opportunity? If Amy was abducted off the ship to be sex trafficked, wouldn't that need to be planned if even just a bit?
Twenty three is far from old, but in the world of prostitution, it isn't young. Sadly, many men visiting other countries in search of sex tourism are looking for young girls. In fact, the sex traffickers might only get a few years out of Amy, if that. Which brings me back to my question - why Amy?
By all acounts, she would've resisted being taken off the boat. It was a busy morning, as guests were already up and getting ready to disembark. Why didn't anyone notice Amy as she was taken, down the hallways, across the deck, and down the stairs?
There is a very small window of time between when Amy was last seen by her Dad on the balcony, and when she disappeared from the balcony. Only half an hour to forty five minutes. Was this, then, a crime of opportunity? If Amy was abducted off the ship to be sex trafficked, wouldn't that need to be planned if even just a bit?
Twenty three is far from old, but in the world of prostitution, it isn't young. Sadly, many men visiting other countries in search of sex tourism are looking for young girls. In fact, the sex traffickers might only get a few years out of Amy, if that. Which brings me back to my question - why Amy?
By all acounts, she would've resisted being taken off the boat. It was a busy morning, as guests were already up and getting ready to disembark. Why didn't anyone notice Amy as she was taken, down the hallways, across the deck, and down the stairs?
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You are asking me to prove the negative, but I will try. The FBI has not found any reliable proof that any of these people ever saw Amy. Not backed by any forensic evidence including video or other sources. Objective MSM sources about this case are not available online, there is nothing but the same story by the family repeated in 10 sources. That may be due to the age of the case, but many experts have discussed it and find evidence lacking (see below).
Experts in the sources below did agree that the story told by a US serviceman who “saw” Amy and didn’t report it for 3 years because he didn’t want to be busted for hanging out with sex workers is unreliable. There’s no logical way to determine if his story was valid or not, but the FBI did investigate and found nothing. Was he a good witness? If he didn’t report a distressed woman in a timely manner, he’s unreliable by definition. Human memories are not that precise.
Nearly all of the witnesses contacted her parents’ tip line, not the FBI, and reported the information after long delays, keeping the tips from being useful and calling into question their accuracy.
Three witnesses discounted here:
The Disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley - The Casual Criminalist
What started as a happy family vacation quickly descended into every parent’s worst nightmare. Amy disappeared — vanished without a trace.
web.archive.org
I won’t bring up the elaborate scam inflicted on the family. Obviously those “witnesses” were lying. The “brothel” photos again were submitted to the family, not the FBI. The family reported “experts” said it was her, not the FBI.
“Judy” probably believes she saw Amy in 2005. Is that likely? in my opinion, no, due to time and distance. How would they traffic her that far for so long? But that witness seems sincere.
Another expert dismissing witness memories:
Most of this information is my opinion because objective MSM is unavailable, with almost all information sensationalized ans clickbait and coming directly from her family, who cannot be unbiased.
I would encourage anyone who believes she was trafficked to look for sources that say the witnesses ARE reliable and for that source to NOT come directly from her family. There are certainly no FBI sources saying that. They have chosen not to close the case without a conclusion, but there is little evidence of anything. The FBI likely found evidence that she sat on the railing (reported in both sources above), but have not confirmed that. If any of the witnesses presented compelling evidence, this case would be solved. I deeply sympathize with the family because they don’t have their loved one and this case is unsolvable. I keep trying to pull myself away from this thread because I like only cases with hope of being solved.
My understanding is that multiple people came forward and said they saw Amy and Yellow coming out of the elevator near the disco and Yellow handing her a dark drink. At least one of them testified before a grand jury too. This was after she went to her cabin.
I'm just saying, with all the evidence, it's possible that she really was trafficked or kidnapped for a reason that wouldn't make sense to us. And due to the reasons you stated, sex trafficking wouldn't make sense. It was for some other purpose imo.
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The first two links don't say that trafficking happens on ships? The headline in the first link is "Maritime Industry Resources to Counter Human Trafficking." The first paragraph says: "Survivors of human trafficking report being subjected to the crime through all modes of transport, including maritime. Human traffickers recruit, transport, and exploit their victims via commercial shipping, fishing vessels, cruise lines, and private yachts—from ships at sea to coastal and inland ports."
The first paragraph of the second link says: "Traffickers often take advantage of the privacy and anonymity accessible through the hospitality industry. Hotels and motels can be especially attractive locations for all forms of trafficking; however, human trafficking also occurs at sporting events, theme parks, cruise ships, and many other areas in the tourism industry. Staff are not necessarily educated on how to recognize and report signs of trafficking."
So I disagree that the links don't say anything of the sort. They say exactly what I said -- that human trafficking DOES happen on cruise ships.
Do you have a link for this? I read on the link posted upthread (The Disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley - The Casual Criminalist) that a woman claimed to have seen Amy walking with a band member to the deck above at 5:30 A.M. When the man came back down, around ten minutes later, he was alone.This is the only eye witness sighting that I find plausible. I think that, sadly, Amy could've been sexually assaulted before being thrown overboard.
So what is your opinion on the grand jury then?You are asking me to prove the negative, but I will try. The FBI has not found any reliable proof that any of these people ever saw Amy. Not backed by any forensic evidence including video or other sources. Objective MSM sources about this case are not available online, there is nothing but the same story by the family repeated in 10 sources. That may be due to the age of the case, but many experts have discussed it and find evidence lacking (see below).
Experts in the sources below did agree that the story told by a US serviceman who “saw” Amy and didn’t report it for 3 years because he didn’t want to be busted for hanging out with sex workers is unreliable. There’s no logical way to determine if his story was valid or not, but the FBI did investigate and found nothing. Was he a good witness? If he didn’t report a distressed woman in a timely manner, he’s unreliable by definition. Human memories are not that precise.
Nearly all of the witnesses contacted her parents’ tip line, not the FBI, and reported the information after long delays, keeping the tips from being useful and calling into question their accuracy.
Three witnesses discounted here:
Witnesses reported tips to the family’s own tip line, not the FBI, and delayed reporting sightings by 5 months and 3 years, which cannot be properly vetted due to time.The Disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley - The Casual Criminalist
What started as a happy family vacation quickly descended into every parent’s worst nightmare. Amy disappeared — vanished without a trace.
I won’t bring up the elaborate scam inflicted on the family. Obviously those “witnesses” were lying. The “brothel” photos again were submitted to the family, not the FBI. The family reported “experts” said it was her, not the FBI.
“Judy” probably believes she saw Amy in 2005. Is that likely? in my opinion, no, due to time and distance. How would they traffic her that far for so long? But that witness seems sincere.
Another expert dismissing witness memories:
Most of this information is my opinion because objective MSM is unavailable, with almost all information sensationalized ans clickbait and coming directly from her family, who cannot be unbiased.
I would encourage anyone who believes she was trafficked to look for sources that say the witnesses ARE reliable and for that source to NOT come directly from her family. There are certainly no FBI sources saying that. They have chosen not to close the case without a conclusion, but there is little evidence of anything. The FBI likely found evidence that she sat on the railing (reported in both sources above), but have not confirmed that. If any of the witnesses presented compelling evidence, this case would be solved. I deeply sympathize with the family because they don’t have their loved one and this case is unsolvable. I keep trying to pull myself away from this thread because I like only cases with hope of being solved.
I understand your position, but you are leaving out the grand jury and the various witnesses who testified for it.You are asking me to prove the negative, but I will try. The FBI has not found any reliable proof that any of these people ever saw Amy. Not backed by any forensic evidence including video or other sources. Objective MSM sources about this case are not available online, there is nothing but the same story by the family repeated in 10 sources. That may be due to the age of the case, but many experts have discussed it and find evidence lacking (see below).
Experts in the sources below did agree that the story told by a US serviceman who “saw” Amy and didn’t report it for 3 years because he didn’t want to be busted for hanging out with sex workers is unreliable. There’s no logical way to determine if his story was valid or not, but the FBI did investigate and found nothing. Was he a good witness? If he didn’t report a distressed woman in a timely manner, he’s unreliable by definition. Human memories are not that precise.
Nearly all of the witnesses contacted her parents’ tip line, not the FBI, and reported the information after long delays, keeping the tips from being useful and calling into question their accuracy.
Three witnesses discounted here:
Witnesses reported tips to the family’s own tip line, not the FBI, and delayed reporting sightings by 5 months and 3 years, which cannot be properly vetted due to time.The Disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley - The Casual Criminalist
What started as a happy family vacation quickly descended into every parent’s worst nightmare. Amy disappeared — vanished without a trace.
I won’t bring up the elaborate scam inflicted on the family. Obviously those “witnesses” were lying. The “brothel” photos again were submitted to the family, not the FBI. The family reported “experts” said it was her, not the FBI.
“Judy” probably believes she saw Amy in 2005. Is that likely? in my opinion, no, due to time and distance. How would they traffic her that far for so long? But that witness seems sincere.
Another expert dismissing witness memories:
Most of this information is my opinion because objective MSM is unavailable, with almost all information sensationalized ans clickbait and coming directly from her family, who cannot be unbiased.
I would encourage anyone who believes she was trafficked to look for sources that say the witnesses ARE reliable and for that source to NOT come directly from her family. There are certainly no FBI sources saying that. They have chosen not to close the case without a conclusion, but there is little evidence of anything. The FBI likely found evidence that she sat on the railing (reported in both sources above), but have not confirmed that. If any of the witnesses presented compelling evidence, this case would be solved. I deeply sympathize with the family because they don’t have their loved one and this case is unsolvable. I keep trying to pull myself away from this thread because I like only cases with hope of being solved.
I realize it doesn't make any sense and is really difficult to believe, and I totally hear you, but really - is there another case where there are all of these witnesses, and the case is still open with the FBI, and the FBI is making new videos asking for tips nearly 20 years later, and the person is on vicap, and there was at least one grand jury convention, and supposedly one of the witnesses knew an identifying piece of info that hadn't been released to the public?
If it's so appealing for people to pretend they saw a missing person, why hasn't it happened with many other cases? Or let's assume it has. Why does the FBI believe these witnesses but not those of other missing persons?
You've said that the FBI has to leave every case open until there's a resolution. Is there a source for that? I've heard others who claim to have connections to the FBI saying there's no way in the world they would expend any resources on this case if Amy fell overboard.
I'm not even saying you're necessarily wrong. Maybe Amy fell off the ship into shallow water during the docking process with dozens of workers outside and no one heard or saw anything and they never found her body despite a three-day search. Maybe the three women who thought they saw Amy with Yellow were mistaken or just wanted attention. Maybe the Navy guy at the brothel was lying. Maybe David Carmichael was actually fed the identifying piece of evidence by the family and is for some reason in cahoots with them trying to pull one over on the FBI. And finally, perhaps the FBI are complete fools who've been falling for an elaborate ruse since 1998. But I just find the sum all of those a little hard to believe.
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Is this the witness who was able to describe every tattoo that Amy had, despite only seeing her briefly one time? If so, do you have a link? I can only find second hand written accounts, but no direct sources.
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No, I'm not. You said "To be fair, the “forensically examined” photographs and “persons of interest” have not been found to have any relevance in this case by numerous experts."
I'm saying I haven't heard about these numerous experts so can you cite a source for the statement that the persons of interest have not been found to have any relevance to the case.
but I will try. The FBI has not found any reliable proof that any of these people ever saw Amy. Not backed by any forensic evidence including video or other sources. Objective MSM sources about this case are not available online, there is nothing but the same story by the family repeated in 10 sources. That may be due to the age of the case, but many experts have discussed it and find evidence lacking (see below).
Experts in the sources below did agree that the story told by a US serviceman who “saw” Amy and didn’t report it for 3 years because he didn’t want to be busted for hanging out with sex workers is unreliable. There’s no logical way to determine if his story was valid or not, but the FBI did investigate and found nothing. Was he a good witness? If he didn’t report a distressed woman in a timely manner, he’s unreliable by definition. Human memories are not that precise.
Nearly all of the witnesses contacted her parents’ tip line, not the FBI, and reported the information after long delays, keeping the tips from being useful and calling into question their accuracy.
Three witnesses discounted here:
The Disappearance of Amy Lynn Bradley - The Casual Criminalist
What started as a happy family vacation quickly descended into every parent’s worst nightmare. Amy disappeared — vanished without a trace.
I'm not seeing where experts have weighed in in the link you provided. Do you mean Callum Howe?
I'm familiar with the scam, but that doesn't discount every other witness. As for Dr. Grande, did you watch the video? He says very clearly at 11:41 in reference to the witnesses: "Even if a few of those were not credible, it is difficult to discount all of them." He then cites the witness that saw the matching tattoos.
So where are you seeing that he discounted witness memories?
Thank you for clarifying this is your opinion. You mentioned experts saying these things and I have yet to find that, so that's what I was asking about.
I mean, no one has proof. No one can say definitively. But even the link you posted to Dr. Grande, he says it's difficult to dismiss all of them. That's about as good as we're going to get absent video or photographic proof.
Actually, the FBI's own posters say: "The FBI is offering a reward of up to $25,000 for information leading to the recovery of Amy Lynn Bradley and information that leads to the identification, arrest, and conviction of the person(s) responsible for her disappearance"
So I highly doubt the FBI found evidence or believes that she sat on the railing or that this disappearance was anything less than a criminal act.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of its absence.
You can turn off your notifications if you don't want to re-visit this thread.
MOO
Can I also just add, since I'm familiar with sex trafficking, that victims don't usually get kidnapped from a theme park or cruise ship or sporting event. They aren't being abducted from these places, never to be seen again.
What happens is, pimps go themselves or send a woman out to these places in order to find girls they think are vulnerable enough to fall victim to their plans. They don't just abduct the girl right then and there. They first determine if she will be controllable and if she is vulnerable. Then they pretend they want to get to know her and slowly they earn her trust.
Eventually they get the girl to enter into the sex trade, through threats and coercion, or drug dependency, or all of the above. So those places are where pimps will go to find girls .They also use social media, night clubs, shopping malls, schools, you name it.
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