VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

[Jezel]

So for everybody saying she fell off the ship, how do you explain this line?:

• "The FBI is offering a reward of up to $25,000 for information leading to the recovery of Amy Lynn Bradley and information that leads to the identification, arrest, and conviction of the person(s) responsible for her disappearance."

 

[Tower]

Being a physician, I'm well-versed in sex trafficking as well. We're trained in it extensively, especially if we do any ER work, because trafficking victims sometimes end up in the emergency room. The links I posted show very clearly that it DOES happen on cruise ships and from hotels and a number of other places. And no, it doesn't always happen after an extended grooming period. Remember Natalee Cramer?

15-year-old vs. 23-year-old is a quite different situation in every way.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

15-year-old vs. 23-year-old is a quite different situation in every way.

It actually isn't.

 

[Tower]

It actually isn't.

Why, yes it is. Since we are both health professionals giving our personal opinions, my personal anecdotal experience with 15-year-olds is that they can be more easily deceived and coerced than 23-year-old college graduates (in this case), who have vastly more life experience.

This case keeps drawing me back for some reason, even though it’s utterly and completely unsolvable, in my opinion. I personally dislike an unsolvable case, but discussion continues here with no hope of resolution.

 

[GXP Sleuther]

Fairly sure the swipe card or similar registered twice, first when her brother returned and then she returned shortly after. Then her dad said he woke up around 5:30am and saw her on the balcony.

That does not show evidence that she psychically entered the cabin; it just means her key was used.. IIRC the FBI Agent Sheridan said on the Longwood podcast that the FBI doesn't really have a good idea of what happened the entire day leading up to her vanishing. She also said photos can be edited and some stories of the day's events cannot be corroborated. She stressed they wanted more information on the entire day leading up to her 'vanishing'.

 

[neesaki]

Can I also just add, since I'm familiar with sex trafficking, that victims don't usually get kidnapped from a theme park or cruise ship or sporting event. They aren't being abducted from these places, never to be seen again.

What happens is, pimps go themselves or send a woman out to these places in order to find girls they think are vulnerable enough to fall victim to their plans. They don't just abduct the girl right then and there. They first determine if she will be controllable and if she is vulnerable. Then they pretend they want to get to know her and slowly they earn her trust.

Eventually they get the girl to enter into the sex trade, through threats and coercion, or drug dependency, or all of the above. So those places are where pimps will go to find girls .They also use social media, night clubs, shopping malls, schools, you name it.

I think it happens when and where the opportunity arises. Don't look at it through such a narrow lens.

 

[neesaki]

The first two links dont say anything of the sort. The third one is specifically about (labor) trafficking, eg “..there were at least 128,000 fishers being trafficked in the fishing industry…”

So while I don’t disagree that trafficking exists, these links aren’t convincing evidence that ALB was or could have been sex trafficked on a cruise ship.

I’m really curious why you seem so adamant she wasn’t sex trafficked?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Why, yes it is. Since we are both health professionals giving our personal opinions, my personal anecdotal experience with 15-year-olds is that they can be more easily deceived and coerced than 23-year-old college graduates (in this case), who have vastly more life experience.

And? I'm finding it really hard to understand exactly what your point is. Yes, perhaps a 15-year-old is easier to deceive. But so what? No one said Amy was "deceived" into anything. It's not like she was lured to a car or to a park with the promise of petting a puppy.

The argument was that traffickers don't just kidnap people like this, and that argument is proven untrue by the fact that it actually does happen. The government says so, the cruising industry says so, and there's evidence of it actually happening in black and white. My links prove all the above so I'm not sure what we're still arguing.

 

[dop1985]

That does not show evidence that she psychically entered the cabin; it just means her key was used.. IIRC the FBI Agent Sheridan said on the Longwood podcast that the FBI doesn't really have a good idea of what happened the entire day leading up to her vanishing. She also said photos can be edited and some stories of the day's events cannot be corroborated. She stressed they wanted more information on the entire day leading up to her 'vanishing'.

Brad (brother) stated him and Amy spoke on the balcony after returning from the onboard disco. Either the brother is lying, indicating that he's complicit in her disappearance, or she did return.

And? I'm finding it really hard to understand exactly what your point is. Yes, perhaps a 15-year-old is easier to deceive. But so what? No one said Amy was "deceived" into anything. It's not like she was lured to a car or to a park with the promise of petting a puppy.

The argument was that traffickers don't just kidnap people like this, and that argument is proven untrue by the fact that it actually does happen. The government says so, the cruising industry says so, and there's evidence of it actually happening in black and white. My links prove all the above so I'm not sure what we're still arguing.

Really? Who is confirmed to have been forcibly abducted from a cruise ship?

So for everybody saying she fell off the ship, how do you explain this line?:

• "The FBI is offering a reward of up to $25,000 for information leading to the recovery of Amy Lynn Bradley and information that leads to the identification, arrest, and conviction of the person(s) responsible for her disappearance."

That doesn't mean the FBI definitively believes that she was abducted. There's no harm in offering a reward. If she went overboard through no fault of her own, they'd obviously never be at risk of paying out the reward because no person or persons would be responsible.

 

[Jezel]

Brad (brother) stated him and Amy spoke on the balcony after returning from the onboard disco. Either the brother is lying, indicating that he's complicit in her disappearance, or she did return.


Really? Who is confirmed to have been forcibly abducted from a cruise ship?

That doesn't mean the FBI definitively believes that she was abducted. There's no harm in offering a reward. If she went overboard through no fault of her own, they'd obviously never be at risk of paying out the reward because no person or persons would be responsible.

So the point of my comment was not about the reward. It was about the FBI's exact wording: they believe a person or persons are responsible for Amy's disappearance. I bolded that part of the text.

Let's compare that with what the FBI says about some other well-known cases:

• Brandon Swanson: If you have any information concerning this person, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate.
• Maura Murray: If you have any information concerning this person, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate.
• Brian Shaffer: If you have any information concerning this person, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate.

This means that it is not at all normal or standard for the FBI to mention "the person(s) responsible for her disappearance."

So yes, it does mean that the FBI has concluded she didn't simply fall overboard, and that a person or persons caused her disappearance. This is clear as day.

Amy Lynn Bradley did not simply fall off the Rhapsody of the Seas on accident. I am not sure why it is so difficult for so many people to accept this, but it is obviously not what happened.

 

[sapphire blue]

15-year-old vs. 23-year-old is a quite different situation in every way.

Life isn’t a one size fits all and neither does age always mean more maturity.
Someone can be quite confident, aware and street savvy at 15, whilst a 23 who grew up in a highly religious, restrictive, toxic, abusive home may have little confidence, be oblivious and be more susceptible to being victim/victimised.

 

[dop1985]

So the point of my comment was not about the reward. It was about the FBI's exact wording: they believe a person or persons are responsible for Amy's disappearance. I bolded that part of the text.

Let's compare that with what the FBI says about some other well-known cases:

• Brandon Swanson: If you have any information concerning this person, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate.
• Maura Murray: If you have any information concerning this person, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate.
• Brian Shaffer: If you have any information concerning this person, please contact your local FBI office or the nearest American Embassy or Consulate.

This means that it is not at all normal or standard for the FBI to mention "the person(s) responsible for her disappearance."

So yes, it does mean that the FBI has concluded she didn't simply fall overboard, and that a person or persons caused her disappearance. This is clear as day.

Amy Lynn Bradley did not simply fall off the Rhapsody of the Seas on accident. I am not sure why it is so difficult for so many people to accept this, but it is obviously not what happened.

Could simply be a different FBI Agent who wrote the post and used different verbiage.

It's difficult to believe the human trafficking story because there's never been another documented case of someone being forcibly abducted from a cruise ship. It's easy to believe the overboard theory because 1. It happens quite frequently (others have gone overboard from the same ship), 2. The last place she was seen was a balcony, and 3. It's the most logical explanation.

The human trafficking theory is entirely based on some grainy photos discovered on a Venezuelan escort website that sorta kinda look like they might be Amy, a handful of unverifiable eyewitness accounts over the span of seven years, and claims from distraught family members (not at all throwing shade at them) about suspicious crew behavior prior to her disappearance. Once you look into the sad reality of how human trafficking actually works and the complexity and difficulty of abducting someone from a cruise ship, the theory falls apart.

If someone could just figure out who Jas is/was, it would really put the trafficking theory to rest.

 

[Jezel]

The FBI is a professional organization. Their words have meaning and are not chosen willy-nilly.

Amy was last seen with Alister Douglas coming out of the elevator by three different people.

I am not sure why people assert that either Amy fell off the ship, or she was sex trafficked. There are obviously more possibilities than that.

The Jas photos may very well not be Amy. That doesn't mean that she fell off the ship.

There is no logic whatsoever to the overboard theory. It's just what people want to believe because it's nicer than the alternatives.

 

[dop1985]

The FBI is a professional organization. Their words have meaning and are not chosen willy-nilly.

Amy was last seen with Alister Douglas coming out of the elevator by three different people.

I am not sure why people assert that either Amy fell off the ship, or she was sex trafficked. There are obviously more possibilities than that.

The Jas photos may very well not be Amy. That doesn't mean that she fell off the ship.

There is no logic whatsoever to the overboard theory. It's just what people want to believe because it's nicer than the alternatives.

Three people distinctively remembered Yellow and Amy despite being on a cruise ship with a capacity of over 4,000 people? People have really made Yellow out to be a criminal despite there being no evidence that he did anything but dance with Amy.

If the FBI has information that conclusively shows that Amy did not go overboard, why not release it? It's been twenty-seven years and clearly they're not able to solve the case by gatekeeping it.

 

[Jezel]

Three people distinctively remembered Yellow and Amy despite being on a cruise ship with a capacity of over 4,000 people? People have really made Yellow out to be a criminal despite there being no evidence that he did anything but dance with Amy.

If the FBI has information that conclusively shows that Amy did not go overboard, why not release it? It's been twenty-seven years and clearly they're not able to solve the case by gatekeeping it.

I recommend doing some more research about the case. There are many helpful posts here and elsewhere online to become more familiar with what actually happened instead of just "cruise ship disappearance, must've fallen overboard." Contrary to popular belief, there's a lot more to it than that and the details matter.

The FBI works the way they do for a reason and certainly know far more than any of us. My guess is that they're holding out hope that someone will talk, especially while Alister is still alive.

 

[dop1985]

I recommend doing some more research about the case. There are many helpful posts here and elsewhere online to become more familiar with what actually happened instead of just "cruise ship disappearance, must've fallen overboard." Contrary to popular belief, there's a lot more to it than that and the details matter.

The FBI works the way they do for a reason and certainly know far more than any of us. My guess is that they're holding out hope that someone will talk, especially while Alister is still alive.

I've read and watched everything I know exists regarding this case for many, many years. The suggestion that someone can't possibly support the overboard theory after having done years of research on the case shows that you're not open to the possibility.

I sure hope so. I want nothing more than for the Bradley family to have closure.

 

[Mandala]

That does not show evidence that she psychically entered the cabin; it just means her key was used.. IIRC the FBI Agent Sheridan said on the Longwood podcast that the FBI doesn't really have a good idea of what happened the entire day leading up to her vanishing. She also said photos can be edited and some stories of the day's events cannot be corroborated. She stressed they wanted more information on the entire day leading up to her 'vanishing'.

If someone else used her keycard, this implies that her father lied about seeing her on the balcony of their cabin at 5:30am. I see no reason her father or any of her family would lie about that unless they were involved (not victim blaming, just making a valid point). I’m fairly sure IMO that she entered the cabin after the party/disco and sat on the balcony with her brother until he went to bed.
What happened between 5:30am and 6:00am we will never know. But this is a short window of time.

CCTV is the only evidence that would convince me she left the cabin. The claims of people who saw her can’t be proven.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Really? Who is confirmed to have been forcibly abducted from a cruise ship?

Did you see the links I posted above? They specifically state that cruise ships are used to recruit and traffick people. We actually don't know if people may have been "forcibly abducted" from a cruise ship or how many because it isn't a common crime due to limitations of cruise ships. But to say it never happens or can't happen is inaccurate, IMO. There are a number of scenarios in which I can envision this happening, just like regular abductions on land.

 

[Jezel]

I've read and watched everything I know exists regarding this case for many, many years. The suggestion that someone can't possibly support the overboard theory after having done years of research on the case shows that you're not open to the possibility.

I sure hope so. I want nothing more than for the Bradley family to have closure.

Why would I be open to a possibility that's been logically disproven by the FBI?

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Could simply be a different FBI Agent who wrote the post and used different verbiage.

It's difficult to believe the human trafficking story because there's never been another documented case of someone being forcibly abducted from a cruise ship.

There are a number of crimes that happen on-board cruise ships and several people who go missing.

https://www.commerce.senate.gov/services/files/fc16ceb6-8308-47ba-8326-fc6317a10c2f

Knowing this, I don't understand why it's so difficult to believe that a young woman could have been drugged during the course of a crime or in preparation of a crime as the ship arrived at port.

There are two theories that are believable to me: that she unintentionally died while being drugged/raped and the body was concealed to be dumped at sea or that she drugged and abducted off the ship.

The theory of going overboard, while most likely in the case of average cruise ship missing person, is not consistent in this case with the amount of time, money, and manpower by the FBI who has a lot more information we do. It's also inconsistent with the number of witnesses who've come forward and deemed to be at least somewhat credible by the FBI.

The human trafficking theory is entirely based on some grainy photos discovered on a Venezuelan escort website that sorta kinda look like they might be Amy, a handful of unverifiable eyewitness accounts over the span of seven years, and claims from distraught family members (not at all throwing shade at them) about suspicious crew behavior prior to her disappearance.

AND the FBI. I don't know why that is being dismissed or minimized. The FBI does not waste decades of valuable resources on cases like this unless they feel there is reason to do so.

Once you look into the sad reality of how human trafficking actually works and the complexity and difficulty of abducting someone from a cruise ship, the theory falls apart.

Just because we have a different theory does not mean that we are not well-informed on the reality of human trafficking or the complexity of abducted someone from a cruise ship. We can be just as well-informed as you, or more so, and still have this theory.

MOO.