VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

[MesquiteO21]

I thought this was interesting for them to use ‘it was the 90s’ as an excuse. I was in 10th grade in 1998 and I knew teenagers who were out. It wasn’t that big of a deal. Of course, I was in Southern California not Virginia.

Location could have something to do with it, yeah. I was 12 in 1998 in the Midwest (in a more liberal state compared to the surrounding ones) and while people were out and seemingly accepted it was still….A Thing, for lack of a better term. Just from what I remember, gay people weren’t outwardly discriminated against for jobs, housing, etc (that I know of) but were still in a way the black swans. In a community, everyone knew who the non-straight person was. From my perspective (albeit as a cis-het person) it was very much, ‘we’ll let you join our church, live in our neighborhoods, etc but you’re the Gay Person and that’s the identity we all view you as first and foremost and we’ll be nice to your face but truthfully most people secretly feel a little uneasy with you’
Plus, Ellen DeGeneres’ magazine cover “yep I’m gay” was only a year prior, in 1997, and that was such a huge deal.

Do I think Amy’s sexuality had anything to do with her disappearance? Not in the sense of either her harming herself or her family doing something. But I do think it could have been a factor in her kidnapping and trafficking, if that’s what happened

MOO

 

[Quill]

Did she only drink those six lite beers, was she given others? How quickly did she drink them?

Even her brother said that she was "tipsy".

What Happened to Amy Bradley: Unpacking the Disturbing Theories About Her Disappearance

Amy Bradley disappeared in the middle of a Caribbean cruise in 1998. The Netflix series Amy Bradley Is Missing dives into the theories about what happened and the family's ongoing search for answers.

www.eonline.com

Tipsy does not equal "dangerously drunk"/

 

[RandyMcDonald]

BBM

If the facts have led them this way, then it’s hardly their fault.

There is not a single bit of evidence that she fell overboard, and the family don’t believe she did for various reasons. For them, it must be highly frustrating that some continue to Peddle a narrative that's not backed up by facts.

What facts? There are just ex post facto claims, from different parts of the Caribbean, to have seen Amy, claims made in good faith or otherwise.

There is a grainy photo of a woman who looks somewhat like Amy, but that in itself is proof of nothing. I could show you a photo of me next to someone who looks like me (well, someone who looked like me back then), but that would not prove I had a twin brother. It just proves that other people might look like me.

I am reminded of a long-standing missing person case in my home town, that of Steven O'Brien, an 18 year old man who went missing one cold night in 1993.

Missing Children Database: Steven O'Brien

MissingKids.ca – Missing Children Database: Steven O'Brien

missingkids.ca

The explanation that makes the most sense is that, late at night and somewhat drunk, he had a misadventure by the water and drowned somewhere in Charlottetown Harbour, his body drifting off and never being found.

The Caribbean is wide, and deep, and directly part of the world ocean in a way that Charlottetown Harbour simply is not.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Location could have something to do with it, yeah. I was 12 in 1998 in the Midwest (in a more liberal state compared to the surrounding ones) and while people were out and seemingly accepted it was still….A Thing, for lack of a better term. Just from what I remember, gay people weren’t outwardly discriminated against for jobs, housing, etc (that I know of) but were still in a way the black swans. In a community, everyone knew who the non-straight person was. From my perspective (albeit as a cis-het person) it was very much, ‘we’ll let you join our church, live in our neighborhoods, etc but you’re the Gay Person and that’s the identity we all view you as first and foremost and we’ll be nice to your face but truthfully most people secretly feel a little uneasy with you’
Plus, Ellen DeGeneres’ magazine cover “yep I’m gay” was only a year prior, in 1997, and that was such a huge deal.

Do I think Amy’s sexuality had anything to do with her disappearance? Not in the sense of either her harming herself or her family doing something. But I do think it could have been a factor in her kidnapping and trafficking, if that’s what happened

MOO

How would that work? Her being lesbian and attempting to get back with her girlfriend makes it really unlikely that Amy would have responded to Yellow's flirtations.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Tipsy does not equal "dangerously drunk"/

It is dangerously drunk if the only thing separating you from a lethal night-time fall into the ocean is a too-short railing.

There are reasons why people are not allowed to drive even if they had just a couple of drunks. Alcohol does really bad things to reflexes and responses, and to judgement.

 

[Salah11]

What facts? There are just ex post facto claims, from different parts of the Caribbean, to have seen Amy, claims made in good faith or otherwise.

There is a grainy photo of a woman who looks somewhat like Amy, but that in itself is proof of nothing. I could show you a photo of me next to someone who looks like me (well, someone who looked like me back then), but that would not prove I had a twin brother. It just proves that other people might look like me.

I am reminded of a long-standing missing person case in my home town, that of Steven O'Brien, an 18 year old man who went missing one cold night in 1993.

Missing Children Database: Steven O'Brien

MissingKids.ca – Missing Children Database: Steven O'Brien

missingkids.ca

The explanation that makes the most sense is that, late at night and somewhat drunk, he had a misadventure by the water and drowned somewhere in Charlottetown Harbour, his body drifting off and never being found.

The Caribbean is wide, and deep, and directly part of the world ocean in a way that Charlottetown Harbour simply is not.

Experts claim the photo is of Amy, so it carries a lot of weight.

Then add in various sightings that would indicate she is alive. You can reject them all you want, but her parents know a lot more than us, and they believe the sightings.

It actually makes a lot more sense than a woman who was scared of going near the railing and yet somehow managed to fall without the body washing up or anybody hearing a commotion, which is crazy.

 

[lebvidox]

BBM

If the facts have led them this way, then it’s hardly their fault.

There is not a single bit of evidence that she fell overboard, and the family don’t believe she did for various reasons. For them, it must be highly frustrating that some continue to Peddle a narrative that's not backed up by facts.

But the facts are up to what the family chooses to make of them for their own comfort. Since all possibilities are open, they could picture Amy leaving voluntarily to start a new life in the Caribbean with a hot, lesbian wife and having multiple children, either adopted or through in vitro fertilization.

If all scenarios could be entertained, the report of someone seeing 'Amy' who said she had left the ship to 'score drugs' and was prevented from leaving the island are still up for grabbing. It's totally understandable why the family hangs on to the version that's more comforting to them, or through their perspective.

As in: if you're sure Amy didn't have a drug problem, then this woman couldn't be Amy. It was a scammer. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Salah11]

It is dangerously drunk if the only thing separating you from a lethal night-time fall into the ocean is a too-short railing.

There are reasons why people are not allowed to drive even if they had just a couple of drunks. Alcohol does really bad things to reflexes and responses, and to judgement.

it wasn’t a short railing or more drunk people would fall over board daily. People going over board is relatively rare. Look up the statistics for it and it’s a tiny number when millions go on cruises a week.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Experts claim the photo is of Amy, so it carries a lot of weight.

Then add in various sightings that would indicate she is alive. You can reject them all you want, but her parents know a lot more than us, and they believe the sightings.

It actually makes a lot more sense than a woman who was scared of going near the railing and yet somehow managed to fall without the body washing up or anybody hearing a commotion, which is crazy.

One expert claimed. The FBI notably did not back up the claim.

The sightings are claims, and some do not make sense. How would Amy have even gotten to Barbados from Curacao without any documentation like her passport, for instance? Seeing people who look like Amy is not nearly the same thing as actually seeing Amy. If you think that, well, I have a Brazilian twin to introduce you to.

Amy was on a cruise ship with a railing, Amy was drunk, and Amy's boat was on a wide and deep ocean. (And Amy's father did hear a noise that made him immediately fear for his daughter.)

What, exactly, is the point in believing in such a contrived explanation as an abduction by sex traffickers who then kept her alive even when her fate because an international media sensation? The only virtue that this theory has is one that her parents keep saying: It means that their daughter is still alive.

 

[lebvidox]

it wasn’t a short railing or more drunk people would fall over board daily. People going over board is relatively rare. Look up the statistics for it and it’s a tiny number when millions go on cruises a week.

If she planned to jump, it wasn't an accidental fall. If she fell accidentally, she could be feeling sea sick, drunk or dealing with a cigarette hungover and gotten into a chair/table so she could throw up in the sea instead of running into a bathroom. There are many possible alternatives.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

it wasn’t a short railing or more drunk people would fall over board daily. People going over board is relatively rare. Look up the statistics for it and it’s a tiny number when millions go on cruises a week.

I know three medievalist students at the University of Toronto who converted to Anglicanism.

Rare? Yes.

It still happened.

 

[lebvidox]

One expert claimed. The FBI notably did not back up the claim.

The sightings are claims, and some do not make sense. How would Amy have even gotten to Barbados from Curacao without any documentation like her passport, for instance? Seeing people who look like Amy is not nearly the same thing as actually seeing Amy. If you think that, well, I have a Brazilian twin to introduce you to.

Amy was on a cruise ship with a railing, Amy was drunk, and Amy's boat was on a wide and deep ocean. (And Amy's father did hear a noise that made him immediately fear for his daughter.)

What, exactly, is the point in believing in such a contrived explanation as an abduction by sex traffickers who then kept her alive even when her fate because an international media sensation? The only virtue that this theory has is one that her parents keep saying: It means that their daughter is still alive.

To put this in simple terms: the FBI woman who reported what one forensic analyst believed in the documentary also insists over and over again that all possibilities are open. And also that none of those sightings could ever be confirmed. So, there you go.

 

[GXP Sleuther]

Wayne (Bradley's Royal Caribbean Neighbor featured on the documentary) was Ron's co-worker and friend whom was also on the Cruise for free via the life insurance company?

This can't get stranger.

 

[Danaya]

Sure, but the answers that they are coming up with are not really helpful. Is it really less helpful to realize that your child had a probably accidental fall while drunk into the ocean than to choose to believe your daughter has been raped as a drug-addicted sex worker for most of her life?

I get that Amy's parents want to believe that their daughter is still alive. If the unlikely scenarios they come up with to justify this desperate belief have Amy living in the most terrible circumstances, well, what comfort are they actually getting from that?

I don't know that I would want to imagine that either. I think the fact Amy's body was never found is what really ignited this whole thing.

Then again, people were giving them seemingly credible tips. Starting with that taxi driver who was likely just attempting to get the 250k reward. Even people with no relation to the case became some what obsessed with proving that Amy had been sex trafficked. There were so many unsubstantiated rumours circulating online— for years. Then the photos released in 2005 only deepened the mystery.

In the Amy Bradley is Missing documentary, the FBI agents both admitted that this was a very challenging investigation from the start. It started with the Bradley's cabin. They both said their first thoughts were that something nefarious or criminal could've occured in the room (24:31). The male agent said, "There was no signs of a struggle, but we couldn't be sure the captain had locked down the cabin as a potential crime scene." (23:49) They also mentioned how any potential crime scene evidence would've been gone. Even Ron Bradley told his wife that they were suspects, though it's unknown if they actually were. The FBI agent in the documentary stated that no evidence shows anyone in the family being "a possible culprit".

The main theory the documentary focused on was definitely the sex trafficking theory, which I guess is because it's most interesting? After watching the first time, even I was convinced that Amy had to have been kidnapped and sex trafficked. Yet the initial theories, according to the FBI, was foul play (in the cabin) or suicide (using the balcony table). I don't think they took the sex trafficking angle very seriously, until all the many tips started pouring in.

I do wonder, if that photo isn't Amy, why hasn't anybody come forward to identify her? Who is it?

 

[lebvidox]

I don't know that I would want to imagine that either. I think the fact Amy's body was never found is what really ignited this whole thing.

Then again, people were giving them seemingly credible tips. Starting with that taxi driver who was likely just attempting to get the 250k reward. Even people with no relation to the case became some what obsessed with proving that Amy had been sex trafficked. There were so many unsubstantiated rumours circulating online— for years. Then the photos released in 2005 only deepened the mystery.

In the Amy Bradley is Missing documentary, the FBI agents both admitted that this was a very challenging investigation from the start. It started with the Bradley's cabin. They both said their first thoughts were that something nefarious or criminal could've occured in the room (24:31). The male agent said, "There was no signs of a struggle, but we couldn't be sure the captain had locked down the cabin as a potential crime scene." (23:49) They also mentioned how any potential crime scene evidence would've been gone, due to the cleaners.

The main theory they focused on was definitely the sex trafficking theory, which I guess is because it's most interesting? After watching the first time, even I was convinced that Amy had to have been kidnapped and sex trafficked. Yet the initial theories, according to the FBI, was foul play (in the cabin) or suicide (using the balcony table). I don't think they took the sex trafficking angle very seriously, until all the many tips started pouring in.

I do wonder, if that photo isn't Amy, why hasn't anybody come forward to identify her? Who is it?

The FBI didn't consider sex trafficking per se. They just could establish she was no longer in the ship, and the Curacao officers were already in charge of the search around the sea, so the only other alternative available was that of a voluntary or involuntary disembark (i.e. Amy left undetected on her own, or she was taken for whatever reason). The sex trafficking theory didn't even come about until years later, I believe.

 

[Danaya]

The FBI didn't consider sex trafficking per se. They just could establish she was no longer in the ship, and the Curacao officers were already in charge of the search around the sea, so the only other alternative available was that of a voluntary or involuntary disembark (i.e. Amy left undetected on her own, or she was taken for whatever reason). The sex trafficking theory didn't even come about until years later, I believe.

To me it felt like the female FBI agent was more open to that theory. She said she personally doesn't feel that Amy committed suicide. The male FBI agent didn't say anything like that. He mentioned the possibility that a crime occurred in the cabin, but they could never prove it if it had, as well as the table being found pushed against the railing, indicating the possibility of a suicide. He seemed to dismiss the idea of Amy falling overboard accidentally, due to how high up the railing was. But they both said that anything is possible.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

I don't know that I would want to imagine that either. I think the fact Amy's body was never found is what really ignited this whole thing.

Then again, people were giving them seemingly credible tips. Starting with that taxi driver who was likely just attempting to get the 250k reward. Even people with no relation to the case became some what obsessed with proving that Amy had been sex trafficked. There were so many unsubstantiated rumours circulating online— for years. Then the photos released in 2005 only deepened the mystery.

In the Amy Bradley is Missing documentary, the FBI agents both admitted that this was a very challenging investigation from the start. It started with the Bradley's cabin. They both said their first thoughts were that something nefarious or criminal could've occured in the room (24:31). The male agent said, "There was no signs of a struggle, but we couldn't be sure the captain had locked down the cabin as a potential crime scene." (23:49) They also mentioned how any potential crime scene evidence would've been gone. Even Ron Bradley told his wife that they were suspects, though it's unknown if they actually were. The FBI agent in the documentary stated that no evidence shows any member of the family were "possible culprits".

The main theory they focused on was definitely the sex trafficking theory, which I guess is because it's most interesting? After watching the first time, even I was convinced that Amy had to have been kidnapped and sex trafficked. Yet the initial theories, according to the FBI, was foul play (in the cabin) or suicide (using the balcony table). I don't think they took the sex trafficking angle very seriously, until all the many tips started pouring in.

I do wonder, if that photo isn't Amy, why hasn't anybody come forward to identify her? Who is it?

I would imagine that, if the subject of the photograph knew about it, she wouldn't exactly want it to be known around the world that she had been a sex worker.

I get the desperate desire of a parent to have the fate of their child settled. My serious questions about what they choose to say, and not say, about their daughter and her disappearance aside, it does not seem to me that this has actually done them much good. Is the belief that Amy is out there really something that brings them that much comfort if they believe she has been put through unimaginable suffering for most of her life? She is just as removed from them.

I would also suggest that this media portrayal of Amy's disappearance as linked to sex trafficking has actually done not a small amount of general harm, by misrepresenting what sex trafficking is. There are very few cases of comparatively happy tourists being abducted and made into sex slaves. There are many more cases of people in marginal situations--unhappy teenagers, runaways, LGBTQ people--who are slowly taken into the sex trafficking networks, often incrementally. The sensationalizing of Amy's disappearance really has helped lots of people misunderstand what is going on with this very real problem.

 

[lebvidox]

To me it felt like the female FBI agent was more open to that theory. She said she personally doesn't feel that Amy committed suicide. The male FBI agent didn't say anything like that. He mentioned the possibility that a crime occurred in the cabin, but they could never prove it if it had, as well as the table being found pushed against the railing, indicating the possibility of a suicide. He seemed to dismiss the idea of Amy falling overboard accidentally, due to how high up the railing was. But they both said that anything is possible.

I really cannot remember the female agent ever stating she doesn't personally believe Amy committed suicide. It would seem incredibly odd.

 

[logic284]

I think it is important not to judge the parents reaction to Amy’s sexuality based on today’s standards. I am the same age as Amy and had many friends in high school, college and later come out. I lived in the most progressive 3 cities in the northeast. The ideal was to have parents who responded with “great, happy for you.” I never saw that happen. It wasn’t the story of famous people coming out then, Ellens’s mom reacts almost exactly the same way Amy’s family did which was the best type I had observed. I saw most kids continue to hide their sexuality until their mid to late 20’s. Some of friends were sent to conversion therapy, some ended up homeless and couch surfing, some were shipped off to boarding school, I saw restraining orders against love interests. Amy had the best type of response I saw at the time, “it isn’t what we have envisions for you, hoped for you but we will love you no matter what.” I mention this because Amy would know this, she would have friends who also came out or were terrified to. She would have seen the few celebrity stories like Ellen mirror her own, I mean Rosie O’Donnell was still in the closet and claiming the whole love infatuation with Tom Cruise daily on her show, I remember because one of my roommates was horrified that I suggests Rosie O’Donnel could be gay. So with the lens of today her family’s reaction seems less than ideal but it was not only typical and kind of what you would see on TV sitcoms as the “good” family response at the time. I can only speculate of course as to what Amy’s thoughts were but I think for her coming out to her family was scary, and I am sure frustrating because her family couldn’t relate but also probably a huge relief and the most she would have actually expected at the time.

I also think the person she smooched (again me speculating) when she kissed someone behind her girlfriend’s back was probably a male. The way they are so careful in the documentary to not label the gender of the person she kissed, the fact that she said after kissing this person she was sure she wanted to be with the girlfriend, that fact that the brother said years ago that she had a boyfriend and the parents resistance to fully accepting that she was all in as gay lead me to believe that she, like many at the time, was giving it one more old college try to see if you could ft any hetero stirrings and nope, wasn’t gonna happen. I do not think the family’s reaction was toxic nor do I think based on the times she would have either. Like I said, it am sure it was frustrating when her parents didn’t get that it was not MAYBE a phase, but I think she got that they would.

 

[lebvidox]

I would imagine that, if the subject of the photograph knew about it, she wouldn't exactly want it to be known around the world that she had been a sex worker.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but they didn't could establish when this particular photo was taken, right? It could be from ages ago. The website where the picture was first published led nowhere? I can't make sense of this.