VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #3

[Danaya]

I would imagine that, if the subject of the photograph knew about it, she wouldn't exactly want it to be known around the world that she had been a sex worker.

I get the desperate desire of a parent to have the fate of their child settled. My serious questions about what they choose to say, and not say, about their daughter and her disappearance aside, it does not seem to me that this has actually done them much good. Is the belief that Amy is out there really something that brings them that much comfort if they believe she has been put through unimaginable suffering for most of her life? She is just as removed from them.

I would also suggest that this media portrayal of Amy's disappearance as linked to sex trafficking has actually done not a small amount of general harm, by misrepresenting what sex trafficking is. There are very few cases of comparatively happy tourists being abducted and made into sex slaves. There are many more cases of people in marginal situations--unhappy teenagers, runaways, LGBTQ people--who are slowly taken into the sex trafficking networks, often incrementally. The sensationalizing of Amy's disappearance really has helped lots of people misunderstand what is going on with this very real problem.

Again, unless you're in their shoes, or have experienced that loss, what you believe is most "helpful" in terms of how the Bradley's should think, feel, or respond to a tragedy of this magnitude is irrelevant.

In any case, I chose not to challenge your last comment. Instead, I moved on to seperate discussion points, as I don't believe criticizing a grieving family is useful or pertinent. Yet, you keep circling back.

Respectfully, I'm not interested in engaging with you further on this point. We can disagree. It's alright to do so. There's no need to convince you of my perspective and vice versa.

 

[TizerisT]

two-fifths of Venezuela's 30 million—are white

If you're trying to use Venezuelas population to prove your point, then why bother at all? That is beyond flimsy. Why not just say you don't know?

Expecting that the whites are all wealthy and would be immune to being sexually trafficked is certainly an interesting expectation. Is it a wise one?

There you go with your 'wild claims' again, as you so elegantly put it. Anybody who knows about this region will know most white families that have settled in the caribean tend to be from affluent families from Spain/UK/France/Holland, often having a grandfather as a high ranking police cheif / railway cheif or somthing like that and simply never returned to Europe.

 

[DustysMom]

That might be meaningful if she had actually gotten to Curaçao, but she did not. The cruise ship was at least an hour from port when she disappeared.

So, we are presuming not only a conspiracy that is at once so powerful as to kidnap a woman surrounded by her family from a cruise ship and so soft-hearted as to let her live for years afterwards in public, but one that is able to actually work at a distance from a politically stable island that has the normal sorts of human trafficking problems that well-off countries have. All of this, for a perfectly normal-looking American woman.

I ask you: How is any of this likely?

Wait - she was an hour from port when she disappeared? Are you sure? If they were to disembark at 7/30 am via gangway they would have been pulling in an hour or two earlier, right? IF her Dad is correct and saw her feet at 5:30 - she either left the cabin or went overboard between 5:30 and when he woke up at 6am (ish). I always thought they were close to or in the process of docking at that time. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

If you're trying to use Venezuelas population to prove your point, then why bother at all? That is beyond flimsy. Why not just say you don't know?

? But I told you that I did know, pointing to census information about the very large size of white populations in just two countries in the Caribbean, and pointing you to sources that confirm my statements.

There you go with your 'wild claims' again, as you so elegantly put it. Anybody who knows about this region will know most white families that have settled in the caribean tend to be from affluent families in Spain, UK and France, having a grandfather as a high ranking police chief / ran a railway or somthing like that and simply never returned to Europe.

Cuba is a Caribbean country by any definition, and two-thirds of its population is white.

Venezuela is a country in the Caribbean basin, but it is obviously relevant since it is the closest country on the South American mainland to Curaçao.

Just two countries have more than fifteen million white people. Even more notable is the fact that Cuba since the 1990s and Venezuela over the past decade have been doing very poorly. There are now, and have been for a long time, plenty of desperate white people from just those two countries who could easily get caught up in sex trafficking.

Throw in other countries in the Caribbean basin, and even by the most restrictive definitions of "white" that you might want to toss out there are tens of millions of white people in the area. Amy Bradley was hardly rare.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

Yellow was apparently awoken at 7am in his cabin by ship security or concierge asking if he had seen Amy.
No doubt he was singled out by the Bradley’s as having been seen with Amy in the disco in the early AM.
The fact that he most likely shortly thereafter told Brad that he was sorry to hear about his sister lines up with his being notified early on and has nothing to do with a conspiracy or foreshadowing.
He was aware because he was probably one of the first employees to have been made aware by the ships staff very early that AM before any general call was made

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Again, unless you're in their shoes, or have experienced that loss, what you believe is most "helpful" in terms of how the Bradley's should think, feel, or respond to a tragedy of this magnitude is irrelevant.

I personally believe we should try to believe true things. Is her mother really better served in believing that her daughter is alive but has been kept a sex slave for three decades than in accepting an accident happened?

In any case, I chose not to challenge your last comment. Instead, I moved on to seperate discussion points, as I don't believe criticizing a grieving family is useful or pertinent. Yet, you keep circling back.

Pointing out that a grieving family has substantially misrepresented what was actually going on in the life of the missing person is entirely useful and pertinent. Knowing that Amy was not perfectly fine or happy, but that she was upset about her family's rejection of her sexual orientation and had developed a pattern of heavy drinking, does help us understand what happened.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Wait - she was an hour from port when she disappeared? Are you sure? If they were to disembark at 7/30 am via gangway they would have been pulling in an hour or two earlier, right? IF her Dad is correct and saw her feet at 5:30 - she either left the cabin or went overboard between 5:30 and when he woke up at 6am (ish). I always thought they were close to or in the process of docking at that time. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

As I said above, I made a mistake.

 

[K9Enzo]

It’s self explanatory. Drug trafficking has been a problem on Curaçao for many years. Amy could have been lured into the drug trade, and then used as a decoy to move drugs. According to Yellow, Amy discussed her sexual orientation with him. Being a vulnerable topic, it could have made Amy an easier target. Yellow could have used Amy’s vulnerability to recruit and control her with those he may have been working with - those in the drug trafficking trade. The one witness said Amy told him she left the ship of her own accord in search for drugs. It can’t be ruled out.

Eh, traffickers don’t typically target vacationing 23-year-olds with watchful families. It’d be the worst recruitment strategy in cartel history. Maintaining a kidnap victim and risking an entire operation while under international investigation would make zero sense. You don’t need AB for that. You need someone invisible, not someone whose face will be on a missing poster in every port. imo

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Drug trafficking has been present in Curaçao since the 1990’s.

Everybody is entitled to a theory - right or wrong. This is my theory.

We may be, sure, but some theories are more or less likely than others. Theories which require people or entire groups to act of of character, or even against their interests, for years on end are less plausible than those that work.

Let's say that I have a theory, that Amy was fed up with everything in her life and decided to drop off the world, disembarking from the cruise ship and becoming an undocumented immigrant in Curaçao. For almost thirty years, Amy has been working on the cash economy, always managing to stay under the radar of authorities.

Do we have any reason to believe that she wanted this complete break? Do we think this could fit her character? Do we have any reason to believe Curaçao authorities incapable of detect illegal immigrants, especially ones present for so long and bearing presumably some resemblance to a famous missing person? Curaçao is a small island, after all ...

 

[TizerisT]

Considering that she had just got a new apartment, job and dog, no. Highly unlikely.

 

[Mica]

We may be, sure, but some theories are more or less likely than others. Theories which require people or entire groups to act of of character, or even against their interests, for years on end are less plausible than those that work.

Let's say that I have a theory, that Amy was fed up with everything in her life and decided to drop off the world, disembarking from the cruise ship and becoming an undocumented immigrant in Curaçao. For almost thirty years, Amy has been working on the cash economy, always managing to stay under the radar of authorities.

Do we have any reason to believe that she wanted this complete break? Do we think this could fit her character? Do we have any reason to believe Curaçao authorities incapable of detect illegal immigrants, especially ones present for so long and bearing presumably some resemblance to a famous missing person? Curaçao is a small island, after all ...

It’s not only Curaçao…it’s other locations, too. Curaçao was the starting point.

Posted on Mrs. Bradley’s FB page on March, 23, 2018.

 

[TizerisT]

I explicitly said

It doesnt matter, you can swap Haiti for all manner of tourist danger areas. Kingston being a notable one. Would you walk in the non-touristy parts of Kingston?

 

[RandyMcDonald]

It doesnt matter, you can swap Haiti for all manner of tourist danger areas. Kingston being a notable one. Would you walk alone in Kingston?

Maybe?

How is this relevant to the different island of Curaçao? Did Amy even land there?

None of this, of course, has any bearing on the potentially very large number of white people in the Caribbean who could be sexually trafficked, making Amy not nearly as much a scarce resource as is pretended. More than fifteen million white people live in just two countries undergoing a socioeconomic breakdown.

 

[Tutter]

Have you got a source for that? I was trying to find out more specifics about that timeframe

I thought the ship was docked at the time of the disappearance. That is why her going overboard and not being found was unlikely.
The FBI hasn’t presented any evidence they think she went overboard into the ocean.

IMO

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

I think she stood on the glass table with bare feet, leant over to feel the wind/see the sunrise and fell overboard.
where is the evidence for this?

I mean, isn't that why were still talking about this case so many years later? Because there is no real evidence of what happened to her? The room had already been cleaned, therefore any evidence was lost. Now we're just kicking around theories trying to see what fits best. Going over the side by using the table (accidentally or on purpose) is not outside the realm of possibility.

 

[DustinTerry]

I don't think he stating that as a fact. I think he is stating it as possible theory. These people don't know where their loved one is. They are turning over every stone they can.

No, I don’t think he stating it as fact either he just says it has haunted him and his family for 27 years that Scientologists from Sea Org knocked on their door and said they had methods to help grieving then began asking all sorts of questions about Amy.

 

[Serononin]

Thank you - the same questions occurred to me, and I suspect if they had such data (this IP, proven to originate in Barbados, only visited on the days mentioned, and not all throughout the year), they would have said so.

In addition, most ISPs issue dynamic IPs to home users, meaning they change periodically. As someone mentioned earlier, “TV tricks”.

At the end of the day, we’re left with what FBI agent said early in the first episode: the only thing we know for a fact is what time Amy entered the room.

The website was only created a few years ago, right? So also well within the time period that VPNs have been commercially available

 

[Bree1950]

No, I don’t think he stating it as fact either he just says it has haunted him and his family for 27 years that Scientologists from Sea Org knocked on their door and said they had methods to help grieving then began asking all sorts of questions about Amy.

I find this relevant! And why all the questioning to grieving parents?

 

[RandyMcDonald]

I find this relevant! And why all the questioning to grieving parents?

Taking a look at one source

Scientology Death and Funeral Rituals and Customs

Scientologists believe that the body is an impermanent vessel for the individual’s spiritual self, or “thetan.” Funeral services, usually led by a Scientol

healgrief.org

apparently Scientology downplays the physical body, in the context of the belief in an immortal soul and impermanent body, and places emphasis on celebrating the life and attributes of the person who died.

If this happened, I can imagine that this questioning may have been the Scientologists' attempt to help the family process and deal with their grief, by engaging with their memories of Amy.

 

[TizerisT]

Any help offered by Scientology would be with a view to gaining recruits. In this case, under the guise of sympathy / counselling.