WA - 3 children, ages 13, 9 and 7, among 5 killed inside Fall City home, 15 y.o. in custody - 21 October 2024

[girlhasnoname]

There was an earlier WS posted link to an msm article that reported the son spent a lot of time in his room 'doing school' on his computer. I'd guess that to mean it was his "homeschooling" or a significant part of it. It was also referenced that he wasnt doing well with his school work. Maybe he was in trouble for watching _orn on his computer *while* he was expected to be using it for his schooling?

I wonder, if so, how long he managed to get away with that before it was discovered? Could he actually have developed an out of control addiction? Adolescent boys just developing their sexual & erotic 'imprints' are particularly influenced by __orn and addictions have both behavioral and chemical components.

Please do not take these wonderings as some kind of "so that makes this heinous family annihilation okay". Its not personal, really. It may not be of significance at trial as to this kid's guilt and accountability but it IS of cultural, sociological, and particularly of "early warning" prevention significance. May we never see another one of these ever again on the face of the earth! Ugh.

I never thought you meant family annihilation was okay, nor have I taken anything personal. We are all just opining on a True Crime thread and are equally allowed our own opinions and thoughts, which I enjoy because it helps me think outside of my own box.

I do know someone who homeschools and the children must be logged into their computer for 6 hours a day with the camera on so they know that it really is the student that is there on the computer doing the work. The computer was supplied by the school. Somehow they have access to tell when and where the computer is being accessed, maybe a special program that tracks that? IDK enough to say with certainty.

No exceptions either. She already had a visit by the school officer because one of the older boys was trying to find a work around and refused to keep his camera on. Here in my State they hold the parents responsible and if they don't follow the rules, they can be fined or put on regular CPS follow ups.

COVID really messed up a lot of kids and their mentality towards education. It wasn't a good time for them at all.

JMO

 

[OneLove]

Wow, it's good to know some states do conduct more monitoring and oversight than some in which i have lived (and have been shocked & disheartened by the lack.) I'd guess the lax states have a higher level of poverty, drug abuse, and pathological neglect and hunger among those claiming to home school and i saw plenty enough of that in juvenile court and in social service work. Yet I have also known stellar parents in those states who have provided an adequate level of academic education by homeschooling.

I agree with you about covid's effects on kids. Many parents were forced to "computer school" their kids and lacked the skills, time, or interest to do that effectively. So much was lost during those fundamental years.

And then some parents chose to keep their kids out of school even when they wanted to go back. The psychological ramifications are complex. I can't help but wonder about this particular case. I hope the grandmother and surviving sister will reveal more detail in time.

 

[Sundog]

Wow, it's good to know some states do conduct more monitoring and oversight than some in which i have lived (and have been shocked & disheartened by the lack.) I'd guess the lax states have a higher level of poverty, drug abuse, and pathological neglect and hunger among those claiming to home school and i saw plenty enough of that in juvenile court and in social service work. Yet I have also known stellar parents in those states who have provided an adequate level of academic education by homeschooling.

I agree with you about covid's effects on kids. Many parents were forced to "computer school" their kids and lacked the skills, time, or interest to do that effectively. So much was lost during those fundamental years.

And then some parents chose to keep their kids out of school even when they wanted to go back. The psychological ramifications are complex. I can't help but wonder about this particular case. I hope the grandmother and surviving sister will reveal more detail in time.

During Covid, a lot of parents across the nation learned a lot about the poor education their children were getting (in states all across the country) and home schooling surged as a result after the schools reopened. Or they sent their children to private schools that share their values, if they could afford it. It was a real eye opener.

 

[Sundog]

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Home schooling is a normal, socially acceptable practice among Americans, as is living in rural communities away from cities, like the beautiful lake community this family lived in, and also rural communities with children growing up on family-owned farms. Very healthy kids, even though isolated in terms of their location.

We don't know yet what happened to this kid. We may never know, as I suspect he will re-offend at some point and end up in prison for life. He'll have a hard time with structure in a juvenile facility, or any structured setting, as has already been shown by the annihilation of his family when he couldn't, or wouldn't, abide by their rules.

 

[sunflowermomma]

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from a KATU article:
"“A common theme that has been expressed amongst extended family, neighbors, and those who knew the Humistons is that the children were isolated from the outside world and did not engage socially with many peers – only a select few families that went to their church and were friends of their family,” court documents say."

the kid was not isolated like the Turpin children, or like Amish children in some cases, or fundamentalist LDS children in some cases. They had church family friends, the kids were in contact with their grandparent, and they lived walking distance from a Starbucks. If the situation was dire enough to need to murder your parents to escape, why did he not run away? Were the children chained up 24/7? He couldn't pass a note to a church friend, talk to a pastor, anything, if his parents were so bad he had to resort to murder as "self defense" to get away?

JMO. If I am proven wrong by what comes out in court that is totally fine. But nothing about what's been published publicly sounds any different than several homeschool families and orthodox religious families I know through work.

New details emerge on strict, isolated life of family allegedly slain by teen in Fall City

The defense team for a 15-year-old boy accused of killing five of his family members at their Fall City home is asking for a delay in court proceedings.

katu.com

 

[OneLove]

RSBM

from a KATU article:
"“A common theme that has been expressed amongst extended family, neighbors, and those who knew the Humistons is that the children were isolated from the outside world and did not engage socially with many peers – only a select few families that went to their church and were friends of their family,” court documents say."

the kid was not isolated like the Turpin children, or like Amish children in some cases, or fundamentalist LDS children in some cases. They had church family friends, the kids were in contact with their grandparent, and they lived walking distance from a Starbucks. If the situation was dire enough to need to murder your parents to escape, why did he not run away? Were the children chained up 24/7? He couldn't pass a note to a church friend, talk to a pastor, anything, if his parents were so bad he had to resort to murder as "self defense" to get away?

JMO. If I am proven wrong by what comes out in court that is totally fine. But nothing about what's been published publicly sounds any different than several homeschool families and orthodox religious families I know through work.

New details emerge on strict, isolated life of family allegedly slain by teen in Fall City

The defense team for a 15-year-old boy accused of killing five of his family members at their Fall City home is asking for a delay in court proceedings.

katu.com

Amish and LDS children also have their very limited church ppl they see at limited church services, limited to churchy activity. Thats still isolated from general society. Also, walking distance to Starbucks or anywhere else for that matter means exactly nothing if they are not allowed to walk to Starbucks or anywhere else. Its *still* social isolation. There is a literal ton of literature that addresses how stunting it is to isolate children from general socialization no matter how protective the parent thinks it is being. ~~Do you know the size of the teen population of these parent's chosen church and do you know how much socialization opportunities of interest to teens it provided that this child was allowed to engage in?

 

[sunflowermomma]

Amish and LDS children also have their very limited church ppl they see at limited church services, limited to churchy activity. Thats still isolated from general society. Also, walking distance to Starbucks or anywhere else for that matter means exactly nothing if they are not allowed to walk to Starbucks or anywhere else. Its *still* social isolation. There is a literal ton of literature that addresses how stunting it is to isolate children from general socialization no matter how protective the parent thinks it is being. ~~Do you know the size of the teen population of these parent's chosen church and do you know how much socialization opportunities of interest to teens it provided that this child was allowed to engage in?

I'm not claiming that it is not developmentally detrimental for a child to have few peers of their own age. I am looking at this from a legal perspective. If the child and his lawyer are claiming religious isolation as the cause for his actions, there is nothing that has been released publicly that points to isolation so extreme that physical violence was needed to extract himself from it. Additionally, in other precedent-setting cases like this, I don't think the isolated child has ever murdered their siblings along with their allegedly abusive parents.

My husband and his siblings were raised on an evangelical summer camp hours from civilization or other families for 10 months out of the year, and the other 2 months very select few church families joined them. This is not uncommon for religious families and unless there are more details released at trial I just don't see how isolation can be used as a defense unless we're going to go after every family who homeschools or lives in the boonies.

JMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

We don't know yet what happened to this kid. We may never know, as I suspect he will re-offend at some point and end up in prison for life. He'll have a hard time with structure in a juvenile facility, or any structured setting, as has already been shown by the annihilation of his family when he couldn't, or wouldn't, abide by their rules.

<RSBM>

I don't think homeschooling or strict parenting had anything at all to do with why this kid did what he did. According to most stats easily viewable via google there are over 3 million HS kids in the US and almost none of them do what this kid did.

If there was ever a case for "life in prison without the possibility of parole" it'd be a case where a kid slaughters his entire family in cold blood, in their sleep, then attempts to frame his own murdered brother for doing it. I never want this kid out of jail. Ever.

 

[Sundog]

<RSBM>

I don't think homeschooling or strict parenting had anything at all to do with why this kid did what he did. According to most stats easily viewable via google there are over 3 million HS kids in the US and almost none of them do what this kid did.

If there was ever a case for "life in prison without the possibility of parole" it'd be a case where a kid slaughters his entire family in cold blood, in their sleep, then attempts to frame his own murdered brother for doing it. I never want this kid out of jail. Ever.

If for some reason a sympathetic judge decides to keep him in the juvenile system, it still won't be easy for him. He's demonstrated that he can't handle structure, authority, and rules and will even kill to get what he wants, including his siblings, so he is a danger to his peers even in a juvenile setting. He also demonstrated that he is devious and manipulative (premeditated and staged the murder, planned his alibi by blaming his little brother). Even checked each body to make sure they were dead before calling the police. Ultimately, he won't be able to handle the juvenile detention, closed unit, he is assigned to and will end up in the adult court system eventually, and I doubt he'll ever walk free again. Rehabilitation in the juvenile system doesn't fit the profile of this teen-aged murderer.

And, of course, even the juvenile court system is first and foremost about justice. Justice for Mark and Sarah and the three children he murdered. They are the victims here, no matter how he and his lawyers try to spin it.

 

[Sundog]

If there was ever a case for "life in prison without the possibility of parole" it'd be a case where a kid slaughters his entire family in cold blood, in their sleep, then attempts to frame his own murdered brother for doing it. I never want this kid out of jail. Ever.

Well said.

 

[Megnut]

IMO he fits the school shooter profile. He shot up his school. With zero after plan. Targeted children and adults. Because he could.

The only difference, the school was a home school and he didn't care that they were family.

For all we know, the family did everything they could do protect him from outside influences including preventing him from influencing others, in the best ways they could. Never dreaming he would be violent, never dreaming he'd be a homeschool shooter and family annihilator.

Miraculous one child survived.

JMO

 

[scapa]

IMO he fits the school shooter profile. He shot up his school. With zero after plan. Targeted children and adults. Because he could.

The only difference, the school was a home school and he didn't care that they were family.

For all we know, the family did everything they could do protect him from outside influences including preventing him from influencing others, in the best ways they could. Never dreaming he would be violent, never dreaming he'd be a homeschool shooter and family annihilator.

Miraculous one child survived.

JMO

Good point -- though the sheer volume and variety of school shooters since Colombine makes me wonder know whether any useful profile exists, beyond rage and interest in/ approval of other school shooters.

Regarding the discussion about the perpetrator's isolation, I wonder how much online contact he had with others, and with which communities. IRL isolation may or may not have figures importantly in the leadup to this horror, but did he have peers or pals or a common grievance community online?

 

[Ontario Mom]

IMO he fits the school shooter profile. He shot up his school. With zero after plan. Targeted children and adults. Because he could.

The only difference, the school was a home school and he didn't care that they were family.

For all we know, the family did everything they could do protect him from outside influences including preventing him from influencing others, in the best ways they could. Never dreaming he would be violent, never dreaming he'd be a homeschool shooter and family annihilator.

Miraculous one child survived.

JMO

When a school shooter targets classmates it's horrifying enough, no two ways about it.

When those same classmates are people he's known his entire life, that live under the same roof, that have spent every Christmas morning, every birthday, and every happy family memory celebrating together, it's a whole new level of horrifying.

 

[OneLove]

Regarding the discussion about the perpetrator's isolation, I wonder how much online contact he had with others, and with which communities. IRL isolation may or may not have figures importantly in the leadup to this horror, but did he have peers or pals or a common grievance community online?

This will be a very interesting piece of the puzzle for sure! It seems from what we already do know that the parents sharply restricted his rl in-person socialization but had him spend significant time isolated alone in his room and online without restrictions, filters, or much supervision. They didnt even know he wasn't doing his schoolwork until he was already flailing.

In the interests of revealing why I'm particularly interested in this, many years back at the dawn of internet connectivity, my doctoral dissertation research topic, funded in part by my government job and with the help and support of our nation's leading intelligence agency, was on the effect of internet communications on development of adolescents. It was all so very brand new then. And since my very earliest career had been with at-risk teenagers, social work, and juvenile justice, my concerns in this regard have been keen for decades since as things have unfolded. People tend to call it "radicalization" but it's actually just socialization and peer group influence happening right under the very noses of parents without their awareness.

Maybe real life socialization with a healthy diverse and well supervised population of people leads to a higher level of functioning than isolation and "computer schooling" that is not well managed and mixed with plenty of off-line experiences ? The preponderance of conduct pathologies in socially isolated young people other than online life has reached critical levels and the overall degradation of our society as a whole seems to have gotten quite out of hand as a result.

There are no easy answers..

 

[girlhasnoname]

This will be a very interesting piece of the puzzle for sure! It seems from what we already do know that the parents sharply restricted his rl in-person socialization but had him spend significant time isolated alone in his room and online without restrictions, filters, or much supervision. They didnt even know he wasn't doing his schoolwork until he was already flailing.

In the interests of revealing why I'm particularly interested in this, many years back at the dawn of internet connectivity, my doctoral dissertation research topic, funded in part by my government job and with the help and support of our nation's leading intelligence agency, was on the effect of internet communications on development of adolescents. It was all so very brand new then. And since my very earliest career had been with at-risk teenagers, social work, and juvenile justice, my concerns in this regard have been keen for decades since as things have unfolded. People tend to call it "radicalization" but it's actually just socialization and peer group influence happening right under the very noses of parents without their awareness.

Maybe real life socialization with a healthy diverse and well supervised population of people leads to a higher level of functioning than isolation and "computer schooling" that is not well managed and mixed with plenty of off-line experiences ? The preponderance of conduct pathologies in socially isolated young people other than online life has reached critical levels and the overall degradation of our society as a whole seems to have gotten quite out of hand as a result.

There are no easy answers..

<RBBM>

I do not recall seeing this stated as MSM fact, but I could have well missed it. How do we know this?

I find it hard to imagine that these parents, who are basically said to be religious zealots and purposefully isolating their children, would have allowed them unfettered access to the Internet. I see them as having set up some type of Parental Controls, but the kids today are brilliant at computer and iPhone work arounds.

If you look at school shooters over the past decade, many were (or had) attended public schools and felt deep grievances against fellow students/teachers for perceived slights and bullying. Would that have happened if they were home schooled? IDK. You're right, there are no easy answers, but I don't think the parents here had any culpability in what their son chose to do.

I believe he is deeply disturbed to have pulled off such a cold and calculated act against his ENTIRE family, including his brothers and sisters. What did they do to deserve to die according to him? Did he just not want to leave any witnesses? That requires severely disordered thinking and planning to me.

It's a sad and horrible crime with an entire family lost. The one surviving daughter will probably suffer a lifetime of trauma and survivors guilt. Just unimaginable.

JMO

 

[Knox]

This will be a very interesting piece of the puzzle for sure! It seems from what we already do know that the parents sharply restricted his rl in-person socialization but had him spend significant time isolated alone in his room and online without restrictions, filters, or much supervision. They didnt even know he wasn't doing his schoolwork until he was already flailing.

In the interests of revealing why I'm particularly interested in this, many years back at the dawn of internet connectivity, my doctoral dissertation research topic, funded in part by my government job and with the help and support of our nation's leading intelligence agency, was on the effect of internet communications on development of adolescents. It was all so very brand new then. And since my very earliest career had been with at-risk teenagers, social work, and juvenile justice, my concerns in this regard have been keen for decades since as things have unfolded. People tend to call it "radicalization" but it's actually just socialization and peer group influence happening right under the very noses of parents without their awareness.

Maybe real life socialization with a healthy diverse and well supervised population of people leads to a higher level of functioning than isolation and "computer schooling" that is not well managed and mixed with plenty of off-line experiences ? The preponderance of conduct pathologies in socially isolated young people other than online life has reached critical levels and the overall degradation of our society as a whole seems to have gotten quite out of hand as a result.

There are no easy answers..

Thanks for the explanation, now I understand your persistence in pointing to the effects of isolation.

But you are stating as fact, that he was isolated and allowed unfettered access to the internet. Might be true, but you don’t have all the facts at this time.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I find it hard to imagine that these parents, who are basically said to be religious zealots and purposefully isolating their children, would have allowed them unfettered access to the Internet.

<RSBM>

I find that to be highly unlikely as well. Then again, I don't think they were religious zealots at all. From all I've read they were Christian parents trying to raise their kids the way they believed was best for them. The way all decent parents try and do.