WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #4

[eyes4crime]

Yes, and I have always thought it might be anti-anxiety meds, taken for stress, that may have caused her disorientation. I thought this because I have known persons who took these for stress when they had to do something important, only to find out that it made them get hopelessly lost and disoriented ( my sister had this experience when she had to attend a wedding. Took anti-stress meds, got lost, was late, disoriented, etc. )

I agree with that - we discussed anti-anx meds way in the beginning. If she took Klonopin or one of the Benzo meds to lessen anxiety, along with a few drinks, that by itself would be enough to cause a loss of short term memory, confusion, and disorientation. Since Shantina recently relapsed, there would be no way for her to know how the combination of alcohol + Benzo's would affect her. Since that info is not available to us, I guess we will never know for sure. moo

 

[trigger]

I meant she'd be working in medical coding, presumably in an office or hospital somewhere (I can't recall where it was said she had an interview coming up). Not working with him. Sorry I wasn't clear.

News reporter Michelle Sigona has it in the article.

http://www.michellesigona.com/2010/03/shantina-smiley-still-missing-remembering-azriel/

 

[SMK]

I agree with that - we discussed anti-anx meds way in the beginning. If she took Klonopin or one of the Benzo meds to lessen anxiety, along with a few drinks, that by itself would be enough to cause a loss of short term memory, confusion, and disorientation. Since Shantina recently relapsed, there would be no way for her to know how the combination of alcohol + Benzo's would affect her. Since that info is not available to us, I guess we will never know for sure. moo

Yes. In addition, many people, when upset to find out that a medication that have taken is giving them a bad reaction, make the mistake of thinking an alcoholic drink will "mellow them out" or bring them out of the bad reaction. (Perhaps why she decided to buy the bottle of wine? Desperate to "get back on track"?)

 

[Lipin One]

snipped by Salem

I saw a comment saying 'if she was drinking"! Her purchase is on video, the bottle was found 1/2 full, she recently relapsed, she fell in a parking lot, ordered and paid for food she forgot to take, was lost for hours, her son washed upon shore and now it's being questioned if she had a drink or not. MOO JMHO

I enjoy your posts, and have since I joined agreed with much of what you have said.

That said, my OPINION on this is that yes, people come to WS for information but if they just want information they can get it from newspapers or television. They also come to read the opinions and discussions on the subjects both for gaining insight of what's going on, and to read what others are thinking about the topic. This includes all theories out there, which makes for quite interesting reading.

Also, do we know if LE suspects RS? Chances are they don't, but never say never in cases like this.

It ain't over till it's over.

One last thought, the website that's supposed to be updating the progress of the case is no longer there, so has everyone given up? Nobody is calling out for her safe return.

 

[90Nine]

I don't think so either, really. She'd not only get an Oscar for her performance that night, but apparently for her performance in her life over at least the last couple of years. Well, the one that we know of that is.

That smile she had on when she and Az were walking into the store together was very vibrant. Very vibrant and happy for someone who has been lost in olympia for almost 3 hours. IMO

 

[90Nine]

Yes, and when people are insecure, one of the biggest fears is that the beloved will be in a workplace, surrounded by interesting and attractive others ( such as an office in a big hospital, and eating lunch among people in a hospital cafeteria). Just a thought : If this was a fear of his, he may have suggested she learn photography, and then just do medical coding/billing from home, as many do (would keep her under his watch). Just a thought. Not in any implicating him.

I'm pretty sure he has the photography business and was opening that up for her to get involved in. He mentioned 'he's been trying to get his photography business off the ground for a while'. So I think this is something he was helping her with so they could work together - like DJ/Photography.

 

[Calliope]

I can only speak for myself. Trying to understand her psychology, prior to the tragedy. Not in any way implying fiance had anything to do with her disappearance, but with her state of mind. I assume others, as I do, are interested in the human and psychological aspects. But then, that would be more wanted on a psychological forum, and less on a sleuthing one. I think I did not know the sleuthing was literal, and had thought it included the psychological aspects.

Thanks. I agree.

 

[SMK]

That smile she had on when she and Az were walking into the store together was very vibrant. Very vibrant and happy for someone who has been lost in olympia for almost 3 hours. IMO

I had thought so, too. How odd......how very odd.

 

[marcyjoy]

I've had some time to read all the threads and come up with some opinions on what happened that night....see what you guys think (just my opinion!!)

SS is nervous about seeing step father and others in Castle Rock. Since her mother's death and other things (timeframe also seems to be around her DUI arrest IIRC) so this may have brought back many feelings and lots of anxiety.

RS senses she is feeling anxious, out of sorts, maybe drinking. They have words (disagreement, maybe) and she wants to be left alone (leaves cell phone) and just drive with Az.

I feel she might have taken anti-anxiety meds (often in addicts, if one is good, more is better) or maybe took another medication that we don't know about. Maybe a drink or two and headed out.

On the way, she feels increasingly anxious, maybe rethinking even coming. RS is on a motorcycle "catching up" to her. She makes some weird stops - I think she's disoriented. Buys wine which may add to the other thinks she took or drank before she left.

Decides to go some place to "sleep it off or mentally prepare". Needs to have a cover story so she makes a few calls. If Az is asked, he can say "mom stopped everywhere asking for directions, we were so lost!". Maybe talks about an accident or a fall as another cover - or tells him if anyone asks, that's what happened.

They make it to the beach, back in. Az watches a DVD in the back, mom is in the back sleeping. Az might fall asleep or maybe stays awake. Needs to leave the van for some reason (bathroom??). Mom wakes, realizes he isn't there; tries to find him. maybe realizes he's in the water....opens the door/hatch regardless of the water to use the light from inside to see. Goes in the water to look for him...drowns.

Maybe this is what happened....and maybe I'm crazy.

Regardless, I dont' think she planned it. I think it was a tragic accident by all accounts. I think if she ran off, someone else would be mysteriously missing....an ex, a new flame, whatever. I don't see that as being a valid option.

This is just my opinion...take it or leave it

 

[Jani]

That smile she had on when she and Az were walking into the store together was very vibrant. Very vibrant and happy for someone who has been lost in olympia for almost 3 hours. IMO

I thought that also. The smile seemed genuine, not fake/forced. Azriel also looked fine in the videos, ie dancing/goofing for the cameras. What happened between the time of those video's and her stop at the William's house where she was reportedly visibly upset?

 

[90Nine]

This may not be relevant, but I find it interesting.

At about :60(ish) it shows the Williams home. Now why would a woman with a small child stop at a home when you can't even see the front door and it behind some type of trailer or shack - at 10pm?

That is odd to me.

http://www.king5.com/news/Search-to-continue-for-missing-Silverdale-mother-young-son--87648637.html

 

[nnglas]

Is there any reason why they cannot search the river? I don't understand. Or have they already done that and they missed it?

 

[In da Middle]

I don't see them both driving as anything unusual for somebody to be taking a bike. The weather is finally starting to break and bikers are chomping at the bit! They couldn't have very well all three ride the bike, so since Azriel was coming, they needed a way to transport him. They may have been going to take advantage of "Grandpa" and Az getting some bonding time together and go on a ride together and check out some new scenery. I have many friends that ride and they do this all the time when going to grandparents with the kids. Most people trust the kids and the grands love the time together also.

 

[SMK]

This may not be relevant, but I find it interesting.

At about :60(ish) it shows the Williams home. Now why would a woman with a small child stop at a home when you can't even see the front door and it behind some type of trailer or shack - at 10pm?

That is odd to me.

http://www.king5.com/news/Search-to-continue-for-missing-Silverdale-mother-young-son--87648637.html

Yes, odd, but what could it mean?

 

[LogicalMinds]

Having had so many alcoholics in my life, and having been in support groups, 12 step groups, al anon, acoa etc I can only say "why ask why"?

I have seen a young beautiful girl "relapse" and the night she did she they "made" her give up her car keys but she ran off and had a hidden key and drove her car right into a canal..dead

I saw a loving mom who was a stable /responsible parent to a child with cystic fibrosis, very active in her aa group, sponsored many girls, go "out" and have stroke on crack and booze and left partially paralyzed

Another woman who sponsored many women, had a stable, loving sober hubby, great job in an insurance agency took a drink and ended up in jail with a dui, hit and run, 2 rehabs later and she was divorced and living on the street

I know a girl who was a prostitute, a drunk addicted to crack, who has so far straightened out her life totally, very involved in the program, loving hubby and 2 kids

I know a guy who was living on the streets, got sober, had a great business, family, house with pool, nice boat...one night with about 10 years sober he thought to himself " a beer would go good right now" and he had one...and went on a huge run or bender, ended up in jail, dui for boating dui, went to rehab got out had "one more beer", beat up his wife, ended up losing all and he went to prison 4 years...came out with a bag of clothes to his name and went back to aa...he is now doing more labor work, but doing ok, very powerful speaker, I think he has like 5 years sober again

and so it goes...park bench to park avenue...

read the "big book".> "cunning, baffling, powerful".

you just can't tell what they are going to do, or why they will do it. Drunks will drink when happy, sad, angry, mad, drink when they have a success or drink with a failure.

Their drinking often results in tragedy , quickly or slowly

why ask why??? I think the main thing is that many here are rational "normal" people who are looking at this from a "normal" point of view....with a person who is alcoholic there is nothing rational or normal or logical, nothing.

IF you suspect you have a drinking problem you probably do...get help
If you are "putting up" with a drunk in your life, and your life is a mess...get help
If you know people caught in this endless depressing and dangerous cycle, encourage them to get help

JMO

 

[SMK]

In my mind, none of this was spur of the moment reaction to his likely inviting himself along that day. I think the trip must have been contentious all along and he was just pulling out a last ditch effort to be there. However, it did not weigh on her decisions. It may have complicated them, though.

If the items at the beach are found to be staged, the location and disposition of the van staged, then the wine may have been a believable and necessary prop, too. She could have poured most of it out, for all we know. The only thing that would have her not pour it all out is when the stage prop was found on the beach, she wouldn't look like an absolute sot on cheap wine. This is where the case looks headed to me. It was reiterated again they are not searching for "her", (not her body), but following leads. Is this to give her the false security that she will not be found, if still alive??

Your last sentence, at times, has flashed through my own mind, in connection with her, or another. LE often plays "stupid" until they are prepared to make a move. But of course, the longer you dwell on a case of this kind, the more you begin to cook up theories. I think in a sense I identify with Shantina, her good side, her desire to change and be better, and hate to accept that it all had to end this way. perhaps wish she would be a victim, her honor preserved.

 

[houndstooth]

Your last sentence, at times, has flashed through my own mind, in connection with her, or another. LE often plays "stupid" until they are prepared to make a move. But of course, the longer you dwell on a case of this kind, the more you begin to cook up theories. I think in a sense I identify with Shantina, her good side, her desire to change and be better, and hate to accept that it all had to end this way. perhaps wish she would be a victim, her honor preserved.

I am trying to maintain cool detachment. In my own life I am trusting to the point of gullibility, but when I am looking at these cases, I try to be as open to all possibilities as LE would be. Sometimes it isn't pleasant what you see.

And LE keeps saying "hey, we aren't looking for you". Why say that you aren't looking for the body of a woman who supposedly went missing. It's not like that much time has lapsed. This is what I am focusing on right now.

ETA: If I am not mistaken the talk of ceasing an active search for her came about when Az's body was found. just when you would think it would switch into high gear. So they must have drawn some conclusions about something when he was located.

 

[powayparent]

Has the family made a public plea for her to return? Wouldn't you if you thought there was a remote chance she'd survived?

 

[SMK]

I am trying to maintain cool detachment. In my own life I am trusting to the point of gullibility, but when I am looking at these cases, I try to be as open to all possibilities as LE would be. Sometimes it isn't pleasant what you see.

And LE keeps saying "hey, we aren't looking for you". Why say that you aren't looking for the body of a woman who supposedly went missing. It's not like that much time has lapsed. This is what I am focusing on right now.

ETA: If I am not mistaken the talk of ceasing an active search for her came about when Az's body was found. just when you would think it would switch into high gear. So they must have drawn some conclusions about something when he was located.

I agree with you. I had thought similar.

 

[RubyRed]

Has the family made a public plea for her to return? Wouldn't you if you thought there was a remote chance she'd survived?

I think that pretty much says it all.