WARNING:GRAPHIC PHOTOS Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox appeals conviction #9

[wasnt_me]

this makes one want to tear one's hair. I have unfortunately KNOWN many drug takers-part-time-burglars (against my will, because my sister hung out with them) and they will rob strangers, they will rob you, my sister's friends robbed her and our mother at knife point)---why would Rudy say "gee, no one is home, but my honor says I do not dare rob these fine friends" - I think Massei was leaving a bread crumb trail for the convictions to be overturned---he would please the prosecution, then write an ABSURD report full of CLUES, etc....................My god, is all I can say.

There's no way to determine why for certain RG chose the cottage; however, we know he chose it, because he was in there for whatever reason and he admits to being in there. It's just up to the presecution to prove why he was in there. Let me give a list of reasons:

1. Meredith. He saw her at the party and she was standoffish. He didn't like it and wanted to "show her."

2. OR Meredith was actually kind of nice to him at the club and he took it the wrong way to mean he could call on her.

3. Amanda. He'd been asking the downstairs boys about her and he knew that she was permiscuious.

Under number 2 and 3, I'm not sure of a reason for a breakin.

4. Money. He needed to pay his rent or get evicted so he chose their place.

5. Bored. Just looking for something to do. Yes, some young burglars do it out of boredom, so I've read that they've given as reasons.

I don't know.

But, while constructing this list, I realized, doesn't or didn't the bottom apartment have bars on all the doors and windows? I know I see them on that window and on that door downstairs, but anywhere else?

 

[SMK]

I'm not arguing your basic premise that RG was an ILE informant. The arguments makes sense to me and I have no quarrel with them.

But "even if one accepts" (assuming the translation is accurate) is rather standard lawyer language, particular if RG hadn't yet been tried and convicted of the other offenses. I wouldn't be too alarmed that Massei uses those words or attach too much meaning to them.

Well , Sherlock and you attached meaning to them. This whole case has become so bogus to me. I hope justice will prevail, and the convictions will be overturned. If not, just one more crappy thing in this world.

 

[Nova]

Or the metal grill on the window below the other window. Again, it's not the defense's job to explain why he chose that window. It's the prosecution's job to prove beyond a reasonable doubt why he did NOT use the window as the scene depicts.

Apparently in one of the crimes at the school, a woman caught him in there. We can easily ask why did he not kill this woman, as MK was killed. But this is a mute point because MK is dead and his dina is all over her and in her.

Maybe he was escalating. Maybe the police had warned him that he'd better not be caught again, so he killed MK. I just find it completely odd that he'd not only get caught by the woman in the school, but apparently sit there and wait for the police to come. It sounds from the articles I read that he did wait.

So maybe this time, he was like "Hell, no" and he'll just kill the chick.

I don't totally understand why the same perp reacts violently sometimes but not others. Perhaps, as you say, RG was escalating.

Or maybe MK screamed and that frightened him. Or maybe he had a thing for her and found her vulnerable that night. (I'm not blaming MK obviously.)

I was juror on a murder trial where the defendant stabbed the victim ten times with a huge knife. The defendant was claiming self-defense, but when asked why he stabbed 10 times when once would have incapacitated the victim, he said that after the first stab, he simply couldn't help himself, that (these are my words now) a sort of "blood lust" came over him and he just kept stabbing until he was exhausted.

Maybe RG started by just trying to quiet MK or reason with her and then he couldn't stop himself until she was dying.

 

[wasnt_me]

You will not be given it. There is no reason, because they were not involved. Rudy knew Filomina collected the group's rent $$$. He knew the rents were due. He was facing eviction. He knew noone was home. He broke in. He was confident enough to take a toilet break and listen to his iPod. Meredith surprised him by returning early. He was trapped. He confronted her. She fought back. If there is a God, the convictions will be overturned, and the Knox and Sollecito families will sue for millions.

I'm not sure of theories you present or about FR being the one who collected the rent. Not saying it's not true, just haven't read it. However, I agree that he broke in looking for something, used the bathroom, MK startled him, and he attacked her. I do agree with all that.

 

[wasnt_me]

do you mean Hendry? who is Hardy?

Yes, Otto is just repeating what I called him. I called him Hardy first. Sorry.

 

[ziggy]

Of course the outside of the cottage was investigated:

"On this subject it is also useful to recall that at the hearing of April 23, 2009, the witness Gioia Brocci mentioned above declared that she had observed the exterior of the house, paying particular attention to the wall underneath the window with the broken pane, the window of the room then occupied by Filomena Romanelli. She said: "We observed both the wall...underneath the window and all of the vegetation underneath the window, and we noted that there were no traces on the wall, no traces of earth, of grass, nothing, no streaks, nothing at all, and none [39] of the vegetation underneath the window appeared to have been trampled; nothing" (p. 142 declarations of Gioia Brocci). She also recalled the existence of a nail on that wall, which jutted out about 6cm, and added that "walking along the outside perimeter of the house" her shoes became dirty with "grass attached to the shoes" (p. 145, cf. also declarations of the assistant Zugarini, hearing of Feb. 28, 2009, p. 133).

The next fact to consider is that the pieces of glass from the broken pane were distributed in a homogeneous manner on the inside and outside parts of the windowsill, without any displacement being noted or any piece of glass being found on the ground underneath the window." (pgs. 50-51)

Ref: Judge's Summary

They observed...what a crock - they should have done what crime scene analysts do and rigoursly photograph and then sift the contents of the leaves,soil and vegitation below. "No vegitation was trampled" sounds a lot like "no footprints in the snow" (when there was no snow)...

Walking on leaves and grass does not necessarily cause it to look trampled for crikey sakes. It's so easy to see this investigation was not thorough and to imply that it was is silly and shows severe bias.

 

[SMK]

Well , Sherlock and you attached meaning to them. This whole case has become so bogus to me. I hope justice will prevail, and the convictions will be overturned. If not, just one more crappy thing in this world.

Sorry, Nova, I thought I was speaking to Otto---my brains are fried today. I thought you were Otto speaking to me

 

[Nova]

...3. Amanda. He'd been asking the downstairs boys about her and he knew that she was permiscuious....

Good list of possible reasons why RG chose the cottage.

Re #3 above, how promiscuous was AK really? After the furor about the HIV testing, didn't it turn out she'd had six or seven partners over several years? (Yes, I know one of them was a one-night stand, possibly drug induced.)

Maybe it's because I came of age in the 1970s and have very lax standards, but one new partner every six months or so at age 20 isn't "promiscuous" to me.

 

[wasnt_me]

I don't totally understand why the same perp reacts violently sometimes but not others. Perhaps, as you say, RG was escalating.

Or maybe MK screamed and that frightened him. Or maybe he had a thing for her and found her vulnerable that night. (I'm not blaming MK obviously.)

I was juror on a murder trial where the defendant stabbed the victim ten times with a huge knife. The defendant was claiming self-defense, but when asked why he stabbed 10 times when once would have incapacitated the victim, he said that after the first stab, he simply couldn't help himself, that (these are my words now) a sort of "blood lust" came over him and he just kept stabbing until he was exhausted.

Maybe RG started by just trying to quiet MK or reason with her and then he couldn't stop himself until she was dying.

Yes, also, I've studied crimes where rapists and molesters escalate. they go from merely assaulting to killing. I saw one case where a child molester got caught. When released, he molested again, but this next time, he killed the child. I believe it was because he didn't want anyone telling him as how he got caught the last time.

 

[Nova]

Sorry, Nova, I thought I was speaking to Otto---my brains are fried today. I thought you were Otto speaking to me

Your brains are fried?

You actually CONVINCED me and I've been sitting here trying to remember the post to which you were refering! :loser:

 

[wasnt_me]

They observed...what a crock - they should have done what crime scene analysts do and rigoursly photograph and then sift the contents of the leaves,soil and vegitation below. "No vegitation was trampled" sounds a lot like "no footprints in the snow" (when there was no snow)...

Walking on leaves and grass does not necessarily cause it to look trampled for crikey sakes. It's so easy to see this investigation was not thorough and to imply that it was is silly and shows severe bias.

yes, and more leaves could have fallen on top after the crime, too.

 

[otto]

None of what you have stated above was done. There was no analysis of the ground, no forensics done on the rock etc, no close up pictures of the ground below, they relied on the memory of people such as Filomena's memory which in her particular state I seriously doubt she was looking for glass under leaves, in the grass etc

The judge sure is confused ... including information about the investigation into the area below the broken window in his summations when, according to someone???, this never happened.

 

[wasnt_me]

Good list of possible reasons why RG chose the cottage.

Re #3 above, how promiscuous was AK really? After the furor about the HIV testing, didn't it turn out she'd had six or seven partners over several years? (Yes, I know one of them was a one-night stand, possibly drug induced.)

Maybe it's because I came of age in the 1970s and have very lax standards, but one new partner every six months or so at age 20 isn't "promiscuous" to me.

I agree with you that we don't know. Just like we don't know what FR thinks "clean" means.

If I venture to guess, I'd say that Rudy would have gotten his ideas from the fact that MK was unhappy with the men AK brought home, probably mentioned that to her downstairs boyfriend who could have told Rudy. Total hearsay.

I guess that Daniel, who AK supposedly slept with upstairs while MK and her man were downstairs might have mentioned it, or the boys collectively might have been talking about it in RG's presence.

again, that's all speculation and if true, of course hearsay. But I'm guessing that if he'd been asking about AK to the boys, as the boys have tesitified, he could have gotten some of this as answer.

In RG's favor, it's not real evidence against him to be asking around about AK, especially since she's not the dead one.

 

[wasnt_me]

Your brains are fried?

You actually CONVINCED me and I've been sitting here trying to remember the post to which you were refering! :loser:

See, you got AK syndrome, about to admit to something you didn't do! :waitasec:

 

[otto]

To me, this is the sort of leap Massei makes throughout the Motivation Report. The break-in at vie della Pergola is "entirely different" from RG's other crimes because RG knew the tenants downstairs. Huh? Why?

Since RG knew the boys downstairs, he may have known that none of them would be home. Otherwise, I don't see how that makes this break-in inherently different from others.

It's just a leap Massei makes without explanation in order to reach the preordained conclusion that AK and RS are guilty.

At both the law office and cottage, there was a door or window directly under the balcony with a metal grill. The balcony was about 10 feet above the ground at both locations. At both locations, there were French doors on the balcony. At the law office, Rudy made use of this and entered the office through the French doors on the balcony. At the cottage, he ignored the easy and familiar method for breaking in, and instead scaled a wall without a metal grill (nothing to step on) to a height about about 15 or 20 feet and climbed in through a broken window (without getting any glass on the ground below).

Seems to be quite different to me.

 

[wasnt_me]

The judge sure is confused ... including information about the investigation into the area below the broken window in his summations when, according to someone???, this never happened.

Why are you saying this? Now I'm confused.

The initial claim was that there was not a "thorough investigation."

You have been the one to set forth information that the judge garnered his conclusions from "observations" by the investigators. You submitted this as proof that there was an investigation of the outside area.

The dessenters have said "observations" are not good enough, because the initial assertion is that there was not a "thorough investigation."

no one here that I know of has disputed that the "observations" happened.

 

[otto]

Good list of possible reasons why RG chose the cottage.

Re #3 above, how promiscuous was AK really? After the furor about the HIV testing, didn't it turn out she'd had six or seven partners over several years? (Yes, I know one of them was a one-night stand, possibly drug induced.)

Maybe it's because I came of age in the 1970s and have very lax standards, but one new partner every six months or so at age 20 isn't "promiscuous" to me.

Seven, not including Raffaele, by the age of 20 ... definitely not 70 in 60 days, as was reported at the Innocence Forum held at Washington State U (Steve Moore, Dempsey, Wright, Ciolino, someone else) earlier this week.

 

[wasnt_me]

At the cottage, he ignored the easy and familiar method for breaking in, and instead scaled a wall without a metal grill (nothing to step on) to a height about about 15 or 20 feet and climbed in through a broken window (without getting any glass on the ground below).

Seems to be quite different to me.

Except there was a metal grill below the cottage window. The bars on that lower window could be climbed. You're saying that they cannot be?

 

[otto]

Why are you saying this? Now I'm confused.

The initial claim was that there was not a "thorough investigation."

You have been the one to set forth information that the judge garnered his conclusions from "observations" by the investigators. You submitted this as proof that there was an investigation of the outside area.

The dessenters have said "observations" are not good enough, because the initial assertion is that there was not a "thorough investigation."

no one here that I know of has disputed that the "observations" happened.

According to whom? The report summarized the conclusions of the investigation into the area below the window. The 427 page report is a summary of the 11 month long trial ... it's not a transcript. All of the sources for the conclusions are cited and I suppose they're all available somewhere in Italy. To suggest that because photos of the investigation are not on the net, it didn't happen seems strange to me. In fact, there are some photos of investigators below the window ... I just don't feel like taking the time to search for them.

 

[otto]

Except there was a metal grill below the cottage window. The bars on that lower window could be climbed. You're saying that they cannot be?

It is on the main floor, but not directly below Filomina's window.

When I was still trying to figure out whether Amanda and Raffaele were involved, I looked at the metal grill below the window. These are some images I put together

Someone breaking in using the metal grill on the main floor should have ended up in Amanda's bedroom, not Filominas.