Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[mollymalone]

Upon taking over the sect Jeffs gave himself carte blanche to act as he chose with other people's lives

"One of Jeffs' statements after his father's death was directed at high-ranking officials in the church: "I won't say much, but I will say this - hands off my father's wives." Then addressing the recent widows, he said, "You women will live as if father is still alive and in the next room." Within a week, Warren had married all but two of his father's several dozen wives. After this, he continued to marry more women, many of which were close relatives believing these incenstuos relationships are preserving the bloodline of Jesus Christ and Joseph Smith, both of whom he claims decent from."

 

[SuziQ]

Pepper, Warren Jeffs was talking about bringing it back, and I believe it was Carolyn Jessop who was afraid that he would. I think I recall Evril LeBaron's sect did practice it. As far as Jeffs, it would have only been a matter of time...

Blood atonement or a Kool aid party.

 

[mollymalone]

http://thehopeorg.org/sex_Jon_missing_person_press_release.html
"All of a sudden it was like Janetta had never existed." says Suzanne. When she inquired what had happened to Janetta, their mother "just kind of looked at me with this blank stare and says back, ‘Well, I don’t know.’"

"At least two (and possible three) of Suzanne’s other sisters are married to the prophet. Suzanne speculates that Janetta was married to Jeffs in the prophet’s sprawling Hildale compound immediately after the girl’s 16th birthday."

 

[Leila]

Has this one been posted? Carolyn Jessop talking about the FLDS and it also tells why an appeal was filed for W. Jeffs in Utah.

Ex-fundamentalist fears 'scandal from Hell'
She says Canadian children could have been sent to Texas compound without their parents

It will be "an international scandal from hell" if Texas officials determine that some of the Canadian children taken from the polygamous compound in Texas were taken there without their parents, says a former member of the fundamentalist Mormon group.

And Carolyn Jessop believes that is "a very strong possibility."

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/story.html?id=80268308-4afa-4322-b5da-69ef5ccef80f

Ever since the the Canadian official announced that he had been contacted by Texas authorities who told him there were Canadian children among those who had been removed from the YFZ ranch, I've thought this could have some major ramifications!

We know that Warren Jeffs selected those most loyal to him to go to the YFZ ranch. He also sent children 6 and under to go to the Texas ranch. In one of the articles in the past few weeks, there was mention of trading families going on between the various FLDS communities. Until Winston Blackmore, who's the leader of the FLDS in British Columbia, had a falling out with Warren Jeffs, there were families traded between the British Columbia community and the Colorado City/Hilsdale communities. This was to bring in new blood.

I can see the possibility that a Canadian family or families came to live at either the Colorado City or Hilsdale community, and their children were sent to live at the YFZ ranch, while the parents remained in Utah or Arizona.

The Canadian official said that Canadian authorities were being sent to Texas. This will be interesting!

 

[mollymalone]

Blood atonement or a Kool aid party.

He got people to swear that they'd die for him and he had bodyguards. Talked a good talk but when he was captured he was sans bodyguards, but if LE had gone to one of the compounds to pick him up it might have been a different story. Yeah, the koolaid party crossed my mind too. Sad thing is some of them would willingly do it.

Edited to add: On obeying Warren Jeffs:
Know this, whatever happens, stand by the prophet and do his will. Even unto death you must obey, and you will get the reward in the next life, greater than if you didn't suffer persecution.

And if Warren Jeffs commands you to kill?
I want to remind you what the prophets have taught us, that whenever a man of God is commanded to kill another man, he is never bloodthirsty.

 

[mollymalone]

http://www.marieclaire.com/world/articles/polygamist-cult-kids-wife
Elissa Wall's sister testified at Warren Jeffs trial.
"“We were the first family’s servants,” Teressa says."
"Teressa spoke her mind. Indeed, she says, her nose was bloodied and her jaw bruised in the course of standing up for her mother and siblings to the first wife. “It made me so mad, the way they treated her,” says Teressa, “the way they treated all of us.”

 

[Leila]

Hi Fairy !!

In TX, we do recognize common law, and the adults in ElDorado could be prosecuted under our bigamy law. There is a 3 part test to determine if you are legally married under the TX common law statute, and you can find it here (good info too) http://www.co.travis.tx.us/dro/common_law.asp

UT and AZ, I believe, must have a formal marriage license for it to be considered a legal marriage.

Barb.............this is very interesting information. According to the Texas marriage laws, the FLDS has met the qualifications for common law marriages. They could be prosecuted for polygamy:

A: Three elements must be present to form a common law marriage in Texas.

• • First, you must have "agreed to be married."
    Second, you must have "held yourselves out" as husband and wife. You must have represented to others that you were married to each other. As an example of this, you may have introduced you partner socially as "my husband," or you may have filed a joint income tax return.
    Third, you must have lived together in this state as husband and wife.

Edited to add.........I was trying to catch up with this thread and replying to posts as I read them. I didn't realize that Barb had already posted the same material further up in the thread. Barb.....I apologize.

 

[Leila]

Pepper, Warren Jeffs was talking about bringing it back, and I believe it was Carolyn Jessop who was afraid that he would. I think I recall Evril LeBaron's sect did practice it. As far as Jeffs, it would have only been a matter of time...

It seems that since Warren Jeffs assumed control of the FLDS he put every sort of evil on fast track.

 

[LovingTheChaos]

Eww he looks deformed or like there might be a little something wrong with him? (besides the obvious lol) Then again all the women I been seeing on TV look sick too. They look terrible. I think they need vitamins or something? Maybe it's the in-breeding.

When I look at the picture of Warren Jeffs smiling - this is what I see-














Or

 

[Linda7NJ]

Guys:

Is it me, or does the call sound like it is from a white person, and not a black person. To me it sounds like there is no way possible that a black person made those calls.

:waitasec: Why?

 

[Trino]

Ladybass0711, what does a black person sound like to you? I don't think you should generalize about what a person sounds like according to race.

 

[southcitymom]

...... I feel that the minute they had the opportunity, they'd take the children a leave for parts unknown.

I agree with this - it's what I would want to do!

 

[southcitymom]

Interesting Leila. I wonder how the CPS views the plural "marriage" situation as it replates to child welfare. Let's say there are 5 children from one mother and that mother is wife #6 and there are 35 other children in the household. The CPS worker investigates and determines that there is no physical or sexual abuse in the household with any of the minor children, BUT wife #6 will not leave her husband and wives 1-5 + 35 other children. Does the CPS worker allow the children and mother to reunite with the rest of the household, OR does CPS view the act of polygamy a crime and an endangerment to the children?

Good question. I would think CPS would view polygamy as an endangerment to the children simply because it is against the law, but I don't know.

 

[southcitymom]

It is my understanding that when trying to sort out the mothers/children they might approach a person thought to be a mother of a child. She might tell them her name was Sarah and her child was Jacob. The next time they went back to talk to the same person, she might say her name was Becky and her child's name was Matthew (I made these names up for clarity). One time she might say it was her child, the next time she might say it was someone else's child. To me, that shows a dispute over maternity. In order to prove it is her child, she is going to have to give DNA. Because according to her words, the child could be Sarah's or Becky's or someone else's. Since CPS doesn't know who the mother is, they will have to prove maternity before they know who to give the child back to. Otherwise, they could be returning the wrong child to the wrong mother.

Of the 25 new ones believed to be minors. I wonder if anyone has considered the number who returned to the compound. I wonder if anyone has considered the fact that some of those might be minors also but might have just appeared older?

Good post. Obviously there is one bio mother and one bio father, but a number of other women who might consider the child "hers" - in a spiritual and adoptive sense.

 

[southcitymom]

I wonder if these are bio children or "reassigned" children? I had a reason for asking how many bio children Jeffs has. Earlier there was a link that indicated that Jeffs as a young man had a history of assaulting young boys. A history that has been alleged to have continued.

We all know that once a pedo assaults, they will often keep assaulting. Jeffs started at a young age- I think it shows a preference on his part for young males. I am wondering if in taking his father's wives he wasn't setting up a 'beard' for himself. Like perhaps he needed to show that he had normal wives, but didn't necessarily have relations with them much. Who is more likely to protect him and keep the secret than his father's wives? His father's wives would also be more likely to keep any new "reassigned" wives and children in control and quiet. And God help the new "reassigned" male children!

This is true. The problem is - we don't know that Jeffs is a bonafide pedophile. What we do know is that he has no problem using sex (with adults and children) to control and gain/keep power.

 

[golfmom]

Guys:

Is it me, or does the call sound like it is from a white person, and not a black person. To me it sounds like there is no way possible that a black person made those calls.

I'm sputtering over here. I have to say I find that to be a pretty offensive statement and generalization.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm sputtering over here. I have to say I find that to be a pretty offensive statement and generalization.

I was very offended as well, but my curiosity to hear her attempt to explain it away prevented me from saying so........

 

[southcitymom]

Look, everybody knows that children who have been imprisoned in a cult that forces them to have sex with old men are going to be scared. The cult leaders are the ones responsible for terrorizing them, not the people who have stepped in to help them.

Are you asking us to have sympathy for these con-men child molesters because they are afraid of facing prison terms? Are you asking us to equate the fear of the perps with the fears of their victims?

Because I could give a flying flip about how the perps feel. They have imprisoned and sexually assaulted hundreds of children. They need to face the music.

I'm asking people to consider accepting the obvious instead of pretending it's something else. My friends in DFACS tell me that over and over again - an abused child would rather (and will struggle mightily to) return to his/her parents than go off with a bunch of strangers.

These woman and children feel scared and persecuted - that state is unlikely to lead to an honest exchange of information between them and their "rescuers."

I'm sure all these folks will "face the music" now that the state of Texas and CPS are all tangled up in their lives and I have no problems with that. I do have a problem with people not even attempting to understand the fear and anger these women and children must be facing.

I'll try to hold out hope that CPS workers are bright enough to get it because doing so would make it easier on everyone involved.

 

[southcitymom]

But the problem is they don't know who the parent is.
Seems pretty cut & dry to me / if they can't take a DNA test to prove they are the parents is that unfit??? The government doesn't have a clue at this point who the parents are. Kids never knew who Mom was / Moms refused to say which kids were theres. Dads ran & hid....

I hear you - it is complicated due to the DNA stance of the government and the plural marriage stance of the FLDS.

 

[southcitymom]

In TX, there is no length of time requirement. The 3 tests that you must go through are:

A: Three elements must be present to form a common law marriage in Texas.

• First, you must have "agreed to be married."
  Second, you must have "held yourselves out" as husband and wife. You must have represented to others that you were married to each other. As an example of this, you may have introduced you partner socially as "my husband," or you may have filed a joint income tax return.
  Third, you must have lived together in this state as husband and wife

The FLDS "spiritual marriages" would meet each of these 3 requirements, therefore being a legal common law marriage. If they have found documents of the temple to add to that, it would just be additional evidence.

Thanks barb and lelia - that's very interesting.