Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police #5

[Linda7NJ]

I never made this assumption, to do so would be putting words in my mouth. I have a Master's Degree in Speech Pathology (and a Bachelor's in Linguistics). Part of the curriculum besides Voice Disorders, is to study Speech Science, in which we do look at vocal patterns, pitch, intonation, inflections, etc. There are patterns that can be identified for certain people, and it may go back more than one generation. For example, my mother was raised in the Midwest and said the word "roof" differently from most people in California, where I was born, yet being around my mother, I picked up her pronunciation and would sometimes say [roof], like book-short u, instead of [ruf]- long u. People would ask where I was from because of that.
Gang wannabes, although they may adopt the lingo, don't usually also pay close enough attention to also mimic the pitch and other intonation changes. There is an actual identified speech pattern called "Black English". It has certain linguistic characteristics to it, such as reversing the skin the word ask to become [aks], and simplifying the verb "to be", such as saying "I be black" instead of "I am black".
Hope this helps answer some of your questions...

I don't care what your master degree is in!

Ebonics isn't spoken by all blacks and to imply it is, is ridiculous!!!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

So Ladybass, has there been any word on you going down there to help?

I am in contact with the agency, and have let them know to give me the word, and I will be down there, they want to get the kids set up, and settled, and then they will be back in touch with me.

 

[thefragile7393]

I don't care what your master degree is in!

Ebonics isn't spoken by all blacks and to imply it is, is ridiculous!!!

Somehow I don't think she's talking about ebonics.......

I am in contact with the agency, and have let them know to give me the word, and I will be down there, they want to get the kids set up, and settled, and then they will be back in touch with me.

Awesome....it will be nice to see the follow-ups for this

 

[mollymalone]

Carolyn Jessop talked about Merrill Jessops abuse and holding the children under water. She's not the only one from the FLDS who speaks of this.

http://www.childbrides.org/dakota_CCC_trial_will_set_precedent_for_years.html
Cora Fischer, who also grew up in the FLDS in Colorado City, Ariz., became a second wife at age 14. Her husband would discipline his children by holding them under water until they passed out. He once held the inside of his daughter’s arm against a light bulb until her skin melted, according to Fischer. To teach his daughters about sexuality he would demonstrate on himself.

When her husband’s first wife was diagnosed with a cancerous brain tumor, her doctor insisted she not have any more children, as that would rob her of precious life resources. However, because polygamist women are supposed to have a child a year, she was not given that choice. Instead, she gave birth to three more babies — the last while she lay unconscious, as her life ebbed out of her and she died.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

I don't care what your master degree is in!

Ebonics isn't spoken by all blacks and to imply it is, is ridiculous!!!

Ok I am sorry that I started this. It was not my intention.. All I was trying to get answered was whether or not the authorities may be on the wrong oath here, and it has yet to be answered!

As a side point, people who grow up in the south born, and raised there have a southern accent. Its not that difficult to know who is from the south, or not.

I didn't mean for my comment to be racist, nor did I mean ANY disrespect with this question!!!!!!!!!

I just know with my own personal expierence, I am able to tell when I am talking with a black or white person or whether I am talking to a person from the south, or from canada, or some other foreign country.

And please don't call me racist, because I have SEVERAL Black friends, and that is the least on my mind.. It was just a simple question, I meant NO harm in it. For those I have offended I do apoligize!


So can we PLEASE get back on the topic of these children that have been violated??? I just would like to know if anyone else thinks the authorities are on the wrong track, by following up on this colorado woman, rather then focusing there effort on locating the true "Sarah"????

 

[Seven]

http://www.childbrides.org/dakota.html
Picture of guard tower at Pringle SD compound.

These places all seem to have prison like guard towers. A "religion" with guard towers yet the faithful are no longer allowed to attend church. PFFT

I wonder how many of these types of polygamous towns actually exist in these United States/North America?

This is turning out to be one huge topic.
Too many tentacles to cover in a single thread.

Apparently, there's something called the United Effort Plan (or something like that) that's a trust fund that holds all the finances for this group, which is why they can kick a man out, take his wife(s) and children and his home, because all the land is owned by the UEP and they have the right to evict anyone they choose.

It's like the old feudal system where the land is owned by a prince and everyone else is living on HIS land!

 

[mollymalone]

LadyBass I think authorities have to investigate Swinton, but at the same time they should be ensuring that there really was/was not a Sarah who made that phone call. The phone calls she made to Jessop were clearly traced, however I haven't heard whether the first call to a shelter was traced or not.

 

[mollymalone]

In addition to the genetic disorders, it appears there are problems with stds, probably because of poor hygiene and the constant sharing of partners. Even the children.

http://www.childbrides.org/dakota.html
"It would be difficult to pull a girl out of Colorado City who hasn’t been sexually assaulted," she said, adding that she knows of girls as young as 12 who have been forced to marry their step fathers. As the 25th of 31 offspring of her father, Chapman’s earliest memories are of molestation and rape by her father. She was also routinely fondled by her brothers. And the leaders claim these acts are their right because it is their religion. On Chapman’s 16th birthday, she was taken for a ride by her father for her "sexuality lesson." According to Chapman, it was a tradition for all her father’s daughters and his attempt to legitimize his rape of them.
After her marriage, one of her father-in-law’s wives became plagued with STD around her rectum, while the small grandchildren developed STD in and around their mouths.

 

[Seven]

Yes, polygamy is against the law in TX. TX also recognizes common law marriages, so the FLDS "celestial" marriages are legal marriages here in TX.

The failure of the parents to cooperate in the investigation by giving proper i.d.,names, names of children, etc. could conceivably add more charges to them from the research I am doing now. I'll update on that later when I finish. But it definitely will not help them to get their children back. TX is going to take a hard stand on allowing children to go back to homes without proper parentage established, either by DNA or legal adoption papers or something.

That's good news, barb!

If common law marriage is recognized, then FLDS obviously w/b guilty of violating the anti-polygamy laws.

omg ....... this case is gonna be H U G E!

Multiple generations of children could be saved from the
harmful effects of this lifestyle if Texas does this case up right! :clap:

 

[mollymalone]

The children who were at the Texas compound were said to be clean and healthy and I hope that's true, but I worry about their counterparts still within the sect at the various locations. It appears that there's been a decided lack of adequate medical care or treatement in some cases. IF this incident would result in changes being made within the flds towards the women and children, and yes, the men, those who've been brainwashed along with the rest it would benefit the children throughout the sect. However I don't think that's likely.

 

[mollymalone]

Okay, so Jeffs fancies himself a singer and songwriter. His followers have his tapes on ipod of him and his wives singing.

Thanks to:
http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2008/04/like-a-sect-mac.html
for this uh....well..listen for yourself....Jeffs singing
Click on:
"Yearning For Zion" by Warren Jeffs (MP3)

 

[Trino]

I never made this assumption, to do so would be putting words in my mouth. I have a Master's Degree in Speech Pathology (and a Bachelor's in Linguistics). Part of the curriculum besides Voice Disorders, is to study Speech Science, in which we do look at vocal patterns, pitch, intonation, inflections, etc. There are patterns that can be identified for certain people, and it may go back more than one generation. For example, my mother was raised in the midwest and said the word "roof" differently from most people in California, where I was born, yet being around my mother, I picked up her pronunciation and would sometimes say [roof], like book-short u, instead of [ruf]- long u. People would ask where I was from because of that.
Gang wannabes, although they may adopt the lingo, don't usually also pay close enough attention to also mimic the pitch and other intonation changes. There is an actual identified speech pattern called "Black English". It has certain liguistic characteristics to it, such as reversing the sk in the word ask to become [aks], and simplifying the verb "to be", such as saying "I be black" instead of "I am black".
Hope this helps answer some of your questions...

Sorry, but I feel your comments are stereotypical. Of course, there is/was Black English, but this is more of a class idea. There are many well educated Black persons who speak perfect English, and I would bet you would not be able to identify their race. You don't necessarily find educated Blacks using "I be..."

I have a friend who adopted a Black daughter, and she speaks just like her brothers and sisters. Speech is not a racial thing.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Sorry, but I feel your comments are stereotypical. Of course, there is/was Black English, but this is more of a class idea. There are many well educated Black persons who speak perfect English, and I would bet you would not be able to identify their race. You don't necessarily find educated Blacks using "I be..."

I have a friend who adopted a Black daughter, and she speaks just like her brothers and sisters. Speech is not a racial thing.

I want to be clear. I was not talking about there grammer, I was talking about there ACCENT! It did not appear to be a black persons accent!

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

462 children now and 25 more have been dicovered to be pregnant. Nancy Grace reporting it

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

also Nancy grace is reporting and going to play the tapes of the recording.

 

[mollymalone]

Are these teens already in CPS custody or did they find them at the ranch?

"Authorities say they have uncovered evidence of widespread child abuse at ranch."

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Are these teens already in CPS custody or did they find them at the ranch?

"Authorities say they have uncovered evidence of widespread child abuse at ranch."

I believe they are already in state custody. But there was the original 18-20 that were underage and pregnant. And now they were able to locate 25 more pregnant, underage teens.

 

[golfmom]

Sorry, but I feel your comments are stereotypical. Of course, there is/was Black English, but this is more of a class idea. There are many well educated Black persons who speak perfect English, and I would bet you would not be able to identify their race. You don't necessarily find educated Blacks using "I be..."

I have a friend who adopted a Black daughter, and she speaks just like her brothers and sisters. Speech is not a racial thing.

And just as another poster pointed out, in some southern regions there's virtually no way to tell if you're speaking to a white person or a black person without being there in person. AND, a lot of times that won't even give you a clue because there are a lot of very light skinned blacks that can / have passed for white.

 

[mollymalone]

I believe they are already in state custody. But there was the original 18-20 that were underage and pregnant. And now they were able to locate 25 more pregnant, underage teens.

Ok, thanks.

 

[SewingDeb]

The problem with shutting them down was the religion factor. Public opinion earlier on saw only the children being taken from mothers in the Short Creek raid and after that it was considered political suicide to go after them I suppose. Part of the problem was charges on polygamy, no one wants to open that can of worms, yet there have been prosecutions against individual members for other crimes such as the underage age marriage or abuse.
However, some of the sentences were so lenient they were laughable considering the crimes.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy448.html

Forgot the link but here's where another article can be found:
Blind Eye to Culture of Abuse Blind Eye to Culture of Abuse Children of a polygamist sect have been exploited,
molested for years.
The Los Angeles Times/May 12, 2006

Thanks for the link Molly. Some severe sentences way back in 1953 might have helped.