Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police

[scarpetta]

I think it is interesting what we are seeing because for so long religious groups were allowed to fly under the radar with their sexual abuse, until our legal system started getting involved. The first group was the Catholics and that became an avalanche with more and more victims coming forward. At first the Catholic Church denied it and tried to sweep it under the rug as though it was an “in house” matter. But the victims kept coming forward. The Catholic Church could then no longer hide it and they could no longer silence the whistleblowers, and so they started settling out of court. The ONLY reason why we know so many of the details of just how many pedophiles there were who were caught is because our legal system demanded it. Had our legal system not DEMANDED it, they would have kept denying it as they always had. And the victims would have never experienced anything resembling justice.

With all the reports coming out left and right, the Catholic Church started to look like a haven for child molesters. There are around 70 million Catholics in the United States and as of July 2007 the Catholic Church has paid more than $2 Billion in settlements.

Consider how long this took and how difficult it was for our legal system to finally begin to expose the crimes within this religion with evidence presented in law suites and trials.
It was THAT difficult….and the Catholic Church is not a religious sect with a closed system of doing things or made up of members who exist in tightly knit socio-religious congregations or communities. The Catholic Church was able to bury information for quite some time about their priests, but what the church did not have was a membership that had been told en masse to keep silent or go to someone within the religion itself before they ever notify any legal authorities of any crimes committed. Compared to other religious sects, members of the Catholic faith are free spirited religious mavericks, and STILL it took that long.

In recent years other religions have begun to experience the results of members coming forward with the same reports of crimes committed against them that were swept under the carpet for so many years, and in some cases victims were blamed for making the accusation to begin with. Like the Catholic Church it begins with denials and an attempt to close ranks, and lies are freely distributed as a means to deflect blame or make it appear as though the victims are not as credible as members may have heard. But the victims keep coming forward, and like the Catholic Church these other religions are also beginning to choose more and more to settle out of court rather than experience any negative publicity or widespread exposure of the true depth of what was covered up. Again, it is only when our legal system DEMANDS accountability do the members of religions who are in the practice of hiding criminal acts become exposed.

This incident with the FLDS is another example of our legal system DEMANDING answers, having to DEMAND accountability for crimes against children, and DEMANDING that their religion is no longer able to serve as a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

This is not a case of the blurring of the lines between Church and State. This is a case of our legal system DEMANDING that a line be drawn between the criminals and the victims. And it is yet another time when the criminals happen to believe they are religious.

 

[LionRun]

Texas is accomplishing what utah and arizona couldn't in 20 years!

I agree, Ladybass. I support what Texas has done so far, and they have so much on their plate! I wish that a find could be started somehow to help these children and women. They need food, medical care, loads of specialized counselling, education, d-programming, and job training.

Lion

 

[mysteriew]

Considering they are such a closed system if as we suspect they do not report to the state their births and possibly their deaths. Think how disposable the kids are. With no official recognition of their births, if they die- from child abuse, child birth or whatever there is no accountability. Are there children buried there? Or in Utah or Arizona?

Also, they have a lot of breeding between relatives. How many of their children have disabilities? Are they then given medical care and treatment?

The more I think about this the more I am thinking that the child abuse is only the tip of an iceberg.

 

[mysteriew]

Texas is accomplishing what utah and arizona couldn't in 20 years!

LadyB, good to have you here. Any info you can add will be appreciated.

 

[barb0301]

They have there own medical doctors on site.

On a side note. this topic hits close tohome, I am a survivor of cult abuse, and this is the exact same tactics that were used on me. They have there own doctors, lawyers, police, and law enforcemnet officials.

Hence the reason for some of the cover ups.

i hope these children and woman get in intense therapy. As I am and will be for several years to escape the chains of the mind control that was used on me.

LadyBass, I'm so glad you've joined us, and so sorry to hear of your past abuse. I'm glad to read of your survival, and know how long the journey can be. My best wishes are with you.

As far as having a doctor on site, they alone can be charged with a crime in the state of TX for failing to report abuse. Under TX law, a medical practitioner is a mandatory reporter, as is a member of the clergy. hmmmmmmmmmm, sounds likes lots of assorted charges could be filed.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

LadyB, good to have you here. Any info you can add will be appreciated.

Mind control:


I can't tell you for sure if all the techniques I mentioned below were used on these children but I know they were used on me. Just letting you know in advance.

1.) When a child is born they are taught not to cry. They are taught this by several things For me it was being shocked by wires. For others it was being held under water each and every time they cried. They therefore did learn that crying was not tolerated.

2.) Childern are starved and not provided food/water until they are just about near death, to reinforce that they are not to need anything from anyone.

3) The children are told not to tell anyone, cause if they do they will be deemed crazy and noone will beleive them. They will end up in a mental ward. Code of silence.


4.) Children are taught that they must respect everyone, if there mo, dad, uncle, brother, say for them to do something, and the child says no, or I don't want to do that, they get SEVERLY beaten. And I mean SEVERLY beaten, each and every time they say no, to instill them that saying no will result in dire consequences.

I have several scars on my body from these beatings, because I wanted to stand up for myself.

Several other techniques could be used and probably have been used. This programmin/mind control is tough to get away from. And once you do you are indeed paying for it the rest of your life. Through family members that are still in the cult or religious sect. I am still in therapy because of this. And probably will be for several years.

So when someone sits on a message baord and says "the woman should be just as responsable as the men because they knew exactly what they were doing....." I have to say would you, knowing what you have read so far, be able to sit here and say that now?

Like I said I am not entirly sure if all techniques have been used in these children, however mind control is mind control from sect to sect.

 

[Taximom]

Can I ask a dumb question? Do they still have FLDS compounds in Utah and Arizona? Or did they move to Texas for some reason? Thanks.

Welcome, Ladybass. It's always so good to have true insight to what is going on behind these walls.

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

LadyBass, I'm so glad you've joined us, and so sorry to hear of your past abuse. I'm glad to read of your survival, and know how long the journey can be. My best wishes are with you.

As far as having a doctor on site, they alone can be charged with a crime in the state of TX for failing to report abuse. Under TX law, a medical practitioner is a mandatory reporter, as is a member of the clergy. hmmmmmmmmmm, sounds likes lots of assorted charges could be filed.

Yes this may be the case here Barb.

However with me.. (not saying this is whats been going on with the edorado group)

My group had doctors, medical professionals, lawyers, and judges, police officers etc.

So when a doctor examined me when i was beaten he lie3d on the report "child has a wound consistant with falling out of a tree...." If it ever came to light that this doctor lied, they had a lawyer from the same group defend the doctor. And the judge that presided over the case was also from the same group. So the case was thrown out, because the lawyer, judge knew how said child got the wound, but belonged to the group, so they covered it up in the legal system.

Make sense??

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

Can I ask a dumb question? Do they still have FLDS compounds in Utah and Arizona? Or did they move to Texas for some reason? Thanks.

Welcome, Ladybass. It's always so good to have true insight to what is going on behind these walls.

As far as I know the compounds in utah and arizona are still there. There is also a compound in BC canada. As well as several others in the country.

The texas compound is all people related to warren jeffs. wives,m children of warren jeffs. Also any of jeffs immidiate family are in/were in the texas compound.

 

[sherri79]

Mind control:


I can't tell you for sure if all the techniques I mentioned below were used on these children but I know they were used on me. Just letting you know in advance.

1.) When a child is born they are taught not to cry. They are taught this by several things For me it was being shocked by wires. For others it was being held under water each and every time they cried. They therefore did learn that crying was not tolerated.

2.) Childern are starved and not provided food/water until they are just about near death, to reinforce that they are not to need anything from anyone.

3) The children are told not to tell anyone, cause if they do they will be deemed crazy and noone will beleive them. They will end up in a mental ward. Code of silence.


4.) Children are taught that they must respect everyone, if there mo, dad, uncle, brother, say for them to do something, and the child says no, or I don't want to do that, they get SEVERLY beaten. And I mean SEVERLY beaten, each and every time they say no, to instill them that saying no will result in dire consequences.

I have several scars on my body from these beatings, because I wanted to stand up for myself.

Several other techniques could be used and probably have been used. This programmin/mind control is tough to get away from. And once you do you are indeed paying for it the rest of your life. Through family members that are still in the cult or religious sect. I am still in therapy because of this. And probably will be for several years.

So when someone sits on a message baord and says "the woman should be just as responsable as the men because they knew exactly what they were doing....." I have to say would you, knowing what you have read so far, be able to sit here and say that now?

Like I said I am not entirly sure if all techniques have been used in these children, however mind control is mind control from sect to sect.

i am really sorry for what you had to suffer. no person should endure this kind of treatment much less a child.

i am one of those people that say the adult mothers are partly responsible. the male children suffer the same brain washing as the female. if brain washing explains how a mother can hand off her child to be raped then it should also excuse the actions of the rapist. the men are brain washed to believe that to reach heaven they have a duty to breed with as many women as possible. they are taught that to refuse the orders of the profit is a ticket to eternal hell. any man that refused to take a child bride would have his children taken away and given to another man. do i think the torture and threats these men suffered under excuse their actions? not at all. i just feel women are equal to men. if we hold the men accountable for their actions despite their upbringing then we should hold the women accountable as well.

 

[LionRun]

Ladybass, I admire your courage and the goodness of your heart. You have been through so much, and I am glad that you were able to break that chain.

Thank you for joining us here on this thread, too. I totally agree with your line of thinking about the mothers of the children. They have been brain washed in many ways and have so little of their own selves accessible to fight back with. I want so much for all of the children and their mom's to be helped in every way that they need to come through this and to live the best lives that they can.

Lion

 

[barb0301]

Yes this may be the case here Barb.

However with me.. (not saying this is whats been going on with the edorado group)

My group had doctors, medical professionals, lawyers, and judges, police officers etc.

So when a doctor examined me when i was beaten he lie3d on the report "child has a wound consistant with falling out of a tree...." If it ever came to light that this doctor lied, they had a lawyer from the same group defend the doctor. And the judge that presided over the case was also from the same group. So the case was thrown out, because the lawyer, judge knew how said child got the wound, but belonged to the group, so they covered it up in the legal system.

Make sense??

Yup, makes a lot of sense.

At the Eldorado compound, they don't have the luxury of having all the legal systems indoctrinated into their culture. They are at the mercy of the Schleicher County law enforcement and Texas Rangers. The compound is not an incorporated town with it's own jurisdiction. I'm sure they were headed in that direction though !!

However, even if they were, I still can't imagine how they would get around the fact that a minor was pregnant and under their doctor's care. Failure of a doctor to report a minor's pregnancy would seem to qualify as a "failure to report". I mean, really, what are they gonna say? "Child has a pregnancy consistent with........?????"

I'm still trying to look it up, but they may have grounds to charge and hold all the adults under the mandatory reporting act - haven't found it yet. IF the law in TX still reads that ALL citizens are mandatory reporters, would sure be a good way to hold onto these men for a while.

 

[barb0301]

OK, found it - yep, all citizens are mandatory reporters:

The law requires any person who believes that a child, or person 65 years or older, or an adult with disabilities is being abused, neglected, or exploited to report the circumstances to DFPS.

http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Contact_Us/report_abuse.asp

 

[mysteriew]

i am really sorry for what you had to suffer. no person should endure this kind of treatment much less a child.

i am one of those people that say the adult mothers are partly responsible. the male children suffer the same brain washing as the female. if brain washing explains how a mother can hand off her child to be raped then it should also excuse the actions of the rapist. the men are brain washed to believe that to reach heaven they have a duty to breed with as many women as possible. they are taught that to refuse the orders of the profit is a ticket to eternal hell. any man that refused to take a child bride would have his children taken away and given to another man. do i think the torture and threats these men suffered under excuse their actions? not at all. i just feel women are equal to men. if we hold the men accountable for their actions despite their upbringing then we should hold the women accountable as well.

Sherri, I am not making fun of your typo, honestly I'm not. But it really tickled me prophet=profit ROFL. I was just thinking how appropriate it was! Quite literally the prophet was out to make a profit on the backs of his congregation.

While in most cases I believe the wife/mother who allows the abuse to be as guilty as the person who actually abuses, in this case I do believe there should be some allowance made. These women were literally powerless in this situation. While most women have access to outside help, getting outside help for these women would be difficult if not impossible. They were not only raised in a demeaning way, taught that their interference would be a strike against God, they were literally locked away from help. Who would they tell and how would they reach them to tell? This isn't a situation where they had access to phones and met with others on a regular basis.

 

[scarpetta]

Yes this may be the case here Barb.

However with me.. (not saying this is whats been going on with the edorado group)

My group had doctors, medical professionals, lawyers, and judges, police officers etc.

So when a doctor examined me when i was beaten he lie3d on the report "child has a wound consistant with falling out of a tree...." If it ever came to light that this doctor lied, they had a lawyer from the same group defend the doctor. And the judge that presided over the case was also from the same group. So the case was thrown out, because the lawyer, judge knew how said child got the wound, but belonged to the group, so they covered it up in the legal system.

Make sense??

How were you able to finally leave? Not asking for personal details as I am sure this is a sensitive topic for you and I don't want to intrude.

 

[Salem]

Yes this may be the case here Barb.

However with me.. (not saying this is whats been going on with the edorado group)

My group had doctors, medical professionals, lawyers, and judges, police officers etc.

So when a doctor examined me when i was beaten he lie3d on the report "child has a wound consistant with falling out of a tree...." If it ever came to light that this doctor lied, they had a lawyer from the same group defend the doctor. And the judge that presided over the case was also from the same group. So the case was thrown out, because the lawyer, judge knew how said child got the wound, but belonged to the group, so they covered it up in the legal system.

Make sense??

Ladybass - this post says so much to me. First, let me say I am sorry for your pain and wish you all the best in your continued recovery and am very glad you are here to help educate us on some of these matters.

In an earlier post, I likened the women in this sect to women who are victims of domestic violence. Your post takes me back in time. There was a time in our Country, (certainly for many years after 1890 when this sect started) that beating your wife was not a big deal. Generally, men did not go to jail for it and certainly it was never supposed that the children were harmed by it. However, as time marched on and women began to obtain resources and support, it has generally come to be recognized that domestic violence is a very harmful thing. Maybe it also had a lot to do with women entering the workforce and becoming doctors, lawyers and police officers (I don't really know, I'm just supposing, but sounds logical to me). But I do remember the days when a woman might call the police and the police would come and tell the man to lay off and then they would go away without taking the man away. Just leave him there to beat you more if he chose. Difficult days. Many women gave up the fight and stayed in these marriages because there was no way out.

I see this for the women of this sect. My understanding of Colorado City and Hildale are that these towns are run by the male members of this sect. So who really are you going to complain too? There is no one...... there is no help. According to Ms. Jessop - you have to escape because you are not free to walk away.

This is a complex problem for these women and children. They were born into this culture and they have watched 3, 4, maybe 5 generations of women live in this same manner. It will be a long, long road for these families and the State of Texas but I hope and pray that the majority of these men are prosecuted.

I do have to say that I do have some empathy for some of these men. Those that were born and raised into the culture and were not given the opportunity to go out into the world and learn that in normal society their behavior would not be found acceptable. However, for any man that did make it out and understood, I have no sympathy. And it does appear that some men made it out.... Jeffs nephew actually sued him.

Salem

 

[Blue_Dolphin308]

How were you able to finally leave? Not asking for personal details as I am sure this is a sensitive topic for you and I don't want to intrude.

At the age of 18 I was able to get access to a computer. sporatically. And was able to make plans to get to safety.

 

[Taximom]

Thanks for the info about the other compounds, LadyBass. It doesn't sound like anyone can do anything about those children there.

Good for you for getting out. Why do you think some have the drive to get out, like you did, but others stay? (If it's too personal, don't feel obligated to answer.)

 

[Fairy1]

All of the people who were born into this "cult" are victims. Aside from the women and children who have been removed from the YFZ compound in recent days, this sect has been systematically banishing teenage boys and young men for years. The young males who are banished, I'm quite sure, are considered to be unwanted competition by the elders. They are literally torn from their families and thrust into a world of which they have NO knowledge. For the "leaders" to hide behind religion is an abomination. I sincerely hope this community is completely disassembled and all of the victims are led into reality and allowed to live their lives as normal, free-thinking Americans.

 

[sherri79]

you in bold sherri,

What about the men who are being held that havent abused a child?my understanding is that legally you can be taken into custody if you are suspected of a crime and held for a short period until charged. what is a short period of time i think varies from state to state. once in custody the clock begins to tic. if they do not have the evidence to charge you when the time limit is reached they must release you. in the case of men who have not abused a child there would be no evidence of a crime and they will have to be released.

They took their children. I would imagine some were even breastfeeding. I dont see telling a mother I am taking your child and you can come if you want as merciful or kind, unless that woman is guilty of something...and you are extending mercy in spite of. If a woman is guilty of nothing and you barge in and take her child by force, allowing her to come along is neither merciful nor kind. we have charges of child abuse and child sexual abuse. the children must be taken into protective custody until the charges can be investigated. it can be tricky to balance the rights of the parents against the duty of the state to protect a child. in this case for the guilty mothers i feel no pity. for mothers that are not guilty of a crime i am sure this is hard but it would be so much worse to not have the choice. normally a mother would have no choice once a claim of abuse has been made and a emergency order issued. because this case is so complicated with the chance of innocent mothers getting lumped in with the guilty they have offered a rare chance. if you are any kind of mother at all the choice was made with out a thought. stay with your child. every wrongly accused mother in this country would have killed for what these women got. a chance to stay with your child while you prove you are innocent.


I have a question. About that term sexual predator. Sherri do you think these men are deluded religious cult members who have blatantly broken the law of the land regarding the legal age for minors to be involved in sexual activities OR are these men predators running around the compound raping young girls at will? (I am asking this question for a reason.)
Also, a few centuries back girls were commonly married at 14 or younger. Were the men who married them sexual predators? What about the plantation owners of Virginia that had sex with black slave girls? Sexual predators? Sally Hemings was said to be pregnant with Thomas Jefferson's child at the age of 16. Was he sexual predator? I am steering clear of throwing that term out to freely. I see it being bandied about a lot in today's society and I think that we do a disservice to the very people we are trying to protect. If nearly every where we turn someone is being called a sexual predator that makes it real easy for the TRUE predators to just blend in. I prefer that they stand out. A spotlight would be even better. Its kind of like the difference in calling someone an inebriated older woman VS a drunken . Both terms convey the meaning but one trys to manipulate the emotions of the hearer in a more negative way. if i tell you to perform a sex act on me or i will kill you it is rape. if i tell you to perform a sex act on me or i will hurt your child it is rape. it does not matter if i have the power to harm you or your child. it only matters that i used the threat and you believed it. if i tell you to perform a sex act on me or i will take away your family and you will burn in hell for all eternity it is rape. i do understand that at one time we did not have the same moral taboo about sex with teenage girls. at one time we thought you could own another person. at one time we thought women to fragile to vote. as a society we have evolved to understand these things are wrong. the fact that in the past we have been morally bankrupt or simply did not know better in no way excuses the behavior today. when a man uses the threat of hell to bed his bride after she had no choice in him as a husband i find him to be a sexual predator. to the best of my knowledge my grandfather did not run around raping every girl he saw. he only harmed the girls in his own family. i would call him a predator because he used his power as the head of the house to extort sexual favors from those to weak to defend themselves.

well the Bible doesnt address slavery unless you are meaning the various groups taken captive into slavery at various times. The Bible doesnt speak of the size of a stick to beat a woman with either. Maybe you were referring to another holy writing. about slavery yes i was talking about the fact slaves are mentioned in the bible but god never said go force humans into slavery. multiple wives are mentioned but god never said it takes 6 wives to reach heaven. as for the beating of your wife part you are correct. i pulled that from my memory. i thought i had read it in a reference book on the old testament. it was a book on old English law.

I agree. And isn't it noteworthy that when thousands of people came forth concerning child molestation in the Catholic church there wasn't near the hoopla we see here. I should research that but just a cursory glance at Goggle I found one priest being arrested and charged with 40 counts of child molestation. i thought the catholic church molestation cases did receive a good amount of press. ask how many people have never heard of it and i think the number is low. i am more angry over this case than i was over those cases. i can only speak for me as to why. in the catholic cases i felt some anger over how it was handled but more pity for the adults that had come forward as i could identify with them. in this case i feel pity for the children that are being abused but since the victims are still children i also feel a need to protect them. the fact the abuse is happening right this minute in homes and cults across the country feeds my anger. in simple terms i feel pity for adults that suffered but anger for the children that still suffer.

And it is exactly that society that we are wanting to place the women and children of FLDS in. yes our society has many flaws. we often disagree with others about what we should fix but most of us think some part of it should be changed. i will use racism to illustrate my point. ask a black man raised in 1800 if the world is better in 1950 he will say yes. ask a black man raised in the 1950's if the world is better in 2008 and he will say yes. ask a black man today if we live in the perfect racism free world and he will say no. we have improved in how we protect children over time. we still have a long way to go. the child abuse protections in this cult are still set in 1800. we are yet to be perfect but we are better than that.

As a child from a similar background I am glad that you have made it this far sherri. My heart goes out to you. :blowkiss: i am sorry you had a similar back ground and sad at how often i hear that. too many children suffer in this world but i have real hope we can change that. :blowkiss:

LOL The planet X thing was my own weird flaky illustration. I am glad that you got what I was intending. You have a good sense of humor don't you? 3 weeks of the month i have a great sense of humor. 1 week of the month nothing is funny at all!

still me in bold type.