Was Joe involved?

[faefrost]

While cousin Joe does make my skin crawl, I really want to keep it in perspective. To date we are aware of no physical evidence that places him at the scene or in any way involved. We do not know if there is a timeline that puts him there.

However we do have clear evidence linking Misty and Tommy to the scene. We have clear admitted testimony of their timelines. Tommy was at the house that night. Misty was the last one seen with Hayleigh. Both have failed LDT's and have not played straight with LE. The only things linking JO to the home and Hayleigh are the claims of these two and their family. All known liars.

Sorry, as smarmy and disturbed as cousin Joe seems, I absolutely refuse to accuse or convict someone on the exclusive word of Misty and Tommy's say so. I, and we, really need something more. Not saying there is no possibility that he is involved. simply saying don't buy into any attempts by Misty or the Croslins throwing someone under the bus without some clear independent evidence.

The fact that he is the only one of this bunch still walking in the sunshine is sort of telling about LE's current views on this.

 

[dodie20]

You'll understand I hope when I suggest that a LDT is not my only criteria for truthfulness. In fact, with these folks, I suspect they're all lying. I simply do not believe Joe is lying when he says he did not do anything to Haleigh.

I kept up with a case here in Texas, where a husband was convicted of killing his wife with a shotgun. Initially, there was another suspect...a teenaged neighbor who had had problems with the lady, had recently stolen a shotgun, & had lied on his whereabouts during the crime. & here's the clincher,..he failed 2 LDTs. One was after he came clean about his lies. I don't know if the husband ever took one, but really what would've been the point? By disregarding the neighbor's failures, what would a pass or fail from the husband mean? LTDs are a serious waste of time & seem to be used only when it's convenient for the prosecutors, etc...My advice to Joe would be to steer clear of those things. As of right now, he's in no real trouble, & even if he's truthful, he still might fail. yes, as much as we would all like answers, he needs to protect himself. My guess would be that he has already taken one from his lawyer & we just haven't been told the results.

 

[aoibhinn]

I'm beginning to doubt that Joe was involved. I stated a few reasons in this thread, single post linked.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5135374&postcount=26


Inspired by the Statement Analysis thread, I was going to try one out for myself and randomly picked a Concerned Papa (great work! thanks so much!) video from YouTube regarding the gun. Not only do we see Ron and Misty are lying about it but I also found something else very interesting as well, possible proof of Misty being coached.

I watched the video titled 'Who "Found" The Gun?'. Ron and Misty both claim they found it. But I noticed something else. While Misty was relaying her story on video, I had a hard time figuring out if she was using the word 'culvert' or 'cupboard'. It sounded like a mixture of the two. To confuse matters further, she indicated a vertical element, at head height, with her hands everytime she used the word. Not where you would expect to find a ditch, unless they run vertically through space in Satsuma. My guess is that Misty was coached and didn't understand properly what a culvert was or she mixed up two stories. She knew that her pronounciation and understanding of this element was problematic and seemed to use the hand gestures as a reinforcement for her own benefit, rather than the listener. If you watch it for yourself, you will see what I mean.

Misty's version (Who "Found" The Gun? - LLMPapa on YouTube)
Um ... the gun ... we noticed the gun was missing the next day so I go down to my brother's house, looking everywhere. Me and my sister-in-law. Ronald, I'm (unintelligible, this part spoken very fast) talking on the phone, he's telling me places to look, you know, (is?) where somone would hide something. Well, I get ready to go because I couldn't find the gun on the property, so I get ready to go and I see a board over the culvert. The culvert (unintelligible) check the culvert. So I checked it. And the gun was laying right there (unintelligible). The board was ha... (she starts to say high, then stops). The board was up.

Ron's version (Who "Found" The Gun? - LLMPapa on YouTube, transcript available here - http://www.***********.net/124400)
Ron: you know what? i felt like a criminal… i went straight down to the ditch…
because i figure if it`s on his premises and the law finds them… guess what?
Cobra: boom, back to you!
Ron: No… if it`s on his premises… then he`s in trouble.
Cobra: yeah
Ron: so, you put it in the ditch and anybody could have put it there, right? got my
s*** right out of the culvert… took it home… sprayed it…cleaned it… and there
it was.

 

[Concerned Papa]

I'm beginning to doubt that Joe was involved. I stated a few reasons in this thread, single post linked.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5135374&postcount=26


Inspired by the Statement Analysis thread, I was going to try one out for myself and randomly picked a Concerned Papa (great work! thanks so much!) video from YouTube regarding the gun. Not only do we see Ron and Misty are lying about it but I also found something else very interesting as well, possible proof of Misty being coached.

I watched the video titled 'Who "Found" The Gun?'. Ron and Misty both claim they found it. But I noticed something else. While Misty was relaying her story on video, I had a hard time figuring out if she was using the word 'culvert' or 'cupboard'. It sounded like a mixture of the two. To confuse matters further, she indicated a vertical element, at head height, with her hands everytime she used the word. Not where you would expect to find a ditch, unless they run vertically through space in Satsuma. My guess is that Misty was coached and didn't understand properly what a culvert was or she mixed up two stories. She knew that her pronounciation and understanding of this element was problematic and seemed to use the hand gestures as a reinforcement for her own benefit, rather than the listener. If you watch it for yourself, you will see what I mean.

Misty's version (Who "Found" The Gun? - LLMPapa on YouTube)
Um ... the gun ... we noticed the gun was missing the next day so I go down to my brother's house, looking everywhere. Me and my sister-in-law. Ronald, I'm (unintelligible, this part spoken very fast) talking on the phone, he's telling me places to look, you know, (is?) where somone would hide something. Well, I get ready to go because I couldn't find the gun on the property, so I get ready to go and I see a board over the culvert. The culvert (unintelligible) check the culvert. So I checked it. And the gun was laying right there (unintelligible). The board was ha... (she starts to say high, then stops). The board was up.

Ron's version (Who "Found" The Gun? - LLMPapa on YouTube, transcript available here - http://www..net/124400)
Ron: you know what? i felt like a criminal… i went straight down to the ditch…
because i figure if it`s on his premises and the law finds them… guess what?
Cobra: boom, back to you!
Ron: No… if it`s on his premises… then he`s in trouble.
Cobra: yeah
Ron: so, you put it in the ditch and anybody could have put it there, right? got my
s*** right out of the culvert… took it home… sprayed it…cleaned it… and there
it was.

That's exactly why I put the short video together that you referenced.

Throw into the mix Ronald's "Joe likes to feed Alligators" story that, IMO, COULD not and DID not happen.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - All about alligators

Then consider this comment by Debs:

Why would Tommy (or Timmy or Joe) place Haleigh anywhere near their family's home? Strikes me that IF Haleigh is anywhere near this place, it wasn't a Croslin that put her there. They might not be the highest-ordered thinking group out there, but seems to me they'd want to make sure that if/when she's found, she couldn't be tied to them.

Sounds more like, IF she's there, it's because someone wants the Croslin's to take the fall for it.

Put your analysis about the gun story together with my comment about the alligator story and Debs excellent point about the unlikely nature of Joe, Tommy, or Timmy choosing Shell Harbor as a disposal site for Haleigh. I believe a very clear picture emerges of who fabricated the entire "Cousin Joe done it" story.

"Why" has it's own obvious conclusions.

 

[Justin Tyme]

Here is an early video where Lyndsy and Lisa are laying the brick work for throwing Joe under the bus.

Starts around the 40sec mark.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvswuH4abSo&NR=1

Proof again that they're ALL in on the cover-up. At the 231 mark Lindsey says that ,they have to almost tell her to watch what she says or something along those lines. I think that she adds ALMOST as an after thought as she was speaking as she didn't want to come right out and say: That they had to tell Misty what to say. The word ALMOST was Lindsey in the CYA mode. :banghead:

 

[tfrohning]

I don't know if this is going to come out right.

Joe is so easy to throw under the bus..... Right time. right place, hanging with right players.

I don't believe that Joe is telling the truth about everything.

Sometime the easiest answer might just be the right one. I want to put Joe aside and move on. But I can't :banghead:

I was reading on something totally different....it didn't have anything to do with this case.

It was interesting I going to add it here.

"Lie is a strong word"

At best it's a water down version of the truth that easy for the masses to swallow. Closer to half truth.

Why? Because the real truth doesn't always feel good and sometimes it make people angry.......

 

[elle1919]

I don't know if this is going to come out right.

Joe is so easy to throw under the bus..... Right time. right place, hanging with right players.

I don't believe that Joe is telling the truth about everything.

Sometime the easiest answer might just be the right one. I want to put Joe aside and move on. But I can't :banghead:

I was reading on something totally different....it didn't have anything to do with this case.

It was interesting I going to add it here.

"Lie is a strong word"

At best it's a water down version of the truth that easy for the masses to swallow. Closer to half truth.

Why? Because the real truth doesn't always feel good and sometimes it make people angry.......

I am not sure how you wanted that to come out but I find myself agreeing with you as it pertains to Joe and his possible role. I have felt he was involved since the beginning and have been trying to move on to someone else and I couldn't, not sure why. I think he knows something, and I think he has a role in the night Haleigh went missing. JMO

 

[Emeralgem]

I don't know if this is going to come out right.

Joe is so easy to throw under the bus..... Right time. right place, hanging with right players.

I don't believe that Joe is telling the truth about everything.
Sometime the easiest answer might just be the right one. I want to put Joe aside and move on. But I can't :banghead:

I was reading on something totally different....it didn't have anything to do with this case.

It was interesting I going to add it here.

"Lie is a strong word"

At best it's a water down version of the truth that easy for the masses to swallow. Closer to half truth.

Why? Because the real truth doesn't always feel good and sometimes it make people angry.......

BBM. It's apparent Jo did not tell the truth about everything.. According to his grandmother he didn't want to discuss it.. He would walk away..
However I don't believe he is the one responsible for what happened to Haleigh..IMHO.. We will all soon learn Haleigh died due to her father's out of control anger.....
I also believe we will learn there are quite a few Cummings that haven't told the truth either..And it wasn't because the truth didn't feel good or they cared if people got angry, it was because they cared more about covering Ron C's rear end than they did honoring Haleigh's life and her memory..JMO



BTW.. And I don't believe Jo is guilty of raping Haleigh either......JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Emeralgem,

I hope you are right and that Haleigh wasn't raped by anyone.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Listen to 5:30 News live:http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/5pm/default.aspx

It was said that on the 5PM news report it was reported that Tommy was forced by gunpoint to go with Joe to dispose of Haleigh's body in the river. That was the reason he was at the river with LE. To show them the location.

No update on what happen in court though. I am trying to see if they will report it again on the 5:30 News.

 

[Whisperer]

Listen to 5:30 News live:http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/5pm/default.aspx

It was said that on the 5PM news report it was reported that Tommy was forced by gunpoint to go with Joe to dispose of Haleigh's body in the river. That was the reason he was at the river with LE. To show them the location.

No update on what happen in court though. I am trying to see if they will report it again on the 5:30 News.

Well, isn't that special? Did he happen to say what was going on before he got the gun pointed at him?

 

[epiphany]

Perhaps, ToC's LDT results according to JW - "an investigative tool" and what's the other quote from ToC's attorney - ToC's knows what happened, but he wasn't involved or something similar...perhaps, the gun pointed at ToC by JO to force him to help bring H to the river, rang true on his LDT.

 

[cj1132]

Listen to 5:30 News live:http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/5pm/default.aspx

It was said that on the 5PM news report it was reported that Tommy was forced by gunpoint to go with Joe to dispose of Haleigh's body in the river. That was the reason he was at the river with LE. To show them the location.

No update on what happen in court though. I am trying to see if they will report it again on the 5:30 News.

Are they saying Joe forced Tommy to dispose the body in the river or are they saying he was forced to go with Joe to dispose of the body and there is a third person doing the forcing at gunpoint?

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Listen to 5:30 News live:http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/5pm/default.aspx

It was said that on the 5PM news report it was reported that Tommy was forced by gunpoint to go with Joe to dispose of Haleigh's body in the river. That was the reason he was at the river with LE. To show them the location.

No update on what happen in court though. I am trying to see if they will report it again on the 5:30 News.

They're probably getting that from the telephone tape. He said they were threatened by "him". That's what I think. Tommy did NOT mention Joe by name on that tape, Granny Hollars was the one throwing it around.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Are they saying Joe forced Tommy to dispose the body in the river or are they saying he was forced to go with Joe to dispose of the body and there is a third person doing the forcing at gunpoint?

What was understood is that Tommy said he was "forced" at gunpoint to go with Joe to dispose of Haleigh's body in the river. I sure hope Levi will give us an update. So far he is still on for JVM at 7PM covering the Haleigh case.

 

[epiphany]

Well, isn't that special? Did he happen to say what was going on before he got the gun pointed at him?

C'mon, bring out JW...but, realistically, he ain't gonna appear on NG or JVM any day soon.

 

[gibby207]

Are they saying Joe forced Tommy to dispose the body in the river or are they saying he was forced to go with Joe to dispose of the body and there is a third person doing the forcing at gunpoint?

Yeah.... who? Just WHO forced Tommy to go there at gunpoint... :banghead:

 

[epiphany]

ON 6 PM News:

I could not quote - I paraphrased JW on 6 PM News

JW: re: release of phone convo - we wanted to show how cooperative tommy has been since i've come on board (since April)
JW: Tommy had no active participation; he accompanied JO to the river where body ended up
JW: ToC went down to the river w/JO by force - weapon

 

[epiphany]

I heard JW speak on First Coast News at 6 PM - do not know if was from their earlier news. Posted paraphrase above.

 

[gibby207]

Does it make sense to ANYONE to dump a body and bring someone along for the ride by gunpoint? I'm not understanding things here....