Was Joe involved?

[TaraCrazyHair]

In spite of all the statements from Flora Hollars, I still don't understand why she "knowed" it was JO. She indicates it's because he was changed when he came back from Satsuma-- well, I find that normal, who wouldn't be? A child disappeared within his immediate circle of friends/family.

I'd like to know what, in Joe's past, makes his family suspect him of such atrocious acts... rape, murder, weighing the child down and throwing her in a river? What makes them think he is capable of that?

Personally -- I think Joe is the red headed step-child with this bunch

 

[TaraCrazyHair]

I read that at that time no one knew where Tommy's wife and kids were.

IMO

But they went to Nashville?

At least Lindsey --- kind of curious why she was in Nashville with Lisa at Flora's?

And a divorce discussion had already taken place?
Odd

 

[kamky]

I have always believed Joe Overstreet was a major player in this case. I am more convinced than ever.

The putting up flyers was just to throw everyone off. Just like Scott Peterson put up a big banner in his yard with Laci's picture on it when she went "missing."

By then they had sealed themselves to the "story" that someone unknown came in and took Haleigh out of her home. Of course they would go through the faux acts of putting up flyers...... they were trying to protect their deadly secret.

When Misty went to stay with granny Flora she tried to pretend again that everything was hunkie doorie between her and Joe.

IMO

bbm

I think that Misty and Joe putting up posters probably was for the sake of public image. It implies to me that they were in this together somehow. I'm on the fence as to whether Misty really is or is not afraid of JO, but it could be a case of her only being concerned when he is high on drugs.

We have testimony from Gma Flora that both Misty and Tommy say they were afraid of JO because he threatened them. But actually, IMO:

- IF they were sneaking around and doing drugs in the middle of the night, they could have been afraid of being caught.
- IF the story about stealing Ron's prized gun for money is true, then they could have been afraid that this plan could have been exposed.
- IF they gave something to Haleigh so she would sleep and not catch them and this caused her death/or an accident caused her death, they could have been afraid of being found out.
- IF they all did something unspeakable while high on drugs, they could be afraid that this might come out.
- IF JO was high on drugs and went on a rampage, then they could have been actually afraid of him.

With the first four of these, Misty and Tommy could very well have been terrified of losing their significant others and homes - and for Tommy, his kids - as well as being convicted of a crime.

It seems hard to believe that they would not fight for the life of a child or would participate in a cover up involving a child they supposedly loved. But if their initial judgement was clouded by drugs then maybe they couldn't back out once the cover-up plan was set in motion. Maybe they were afraid to betray each other. Or maybe they couldn't face admitting to their families or themselves what they had done.

If it can be substantiated that JO was in the trailer with Misty and Tommy, then he is involved.

 

[TaraCrazyHair]

bbm

I think that Misty and Joe putting up posters probably was for the sake of public image. It implies to me that they were in this together somehow. I'm on the fence as to whether Misty really is or is not afraid of JO, but it could be a case of her only being concerned when he is high on drugs.

We have testimony from Gma Flora that both Misty and Tommy say they were afraid of JO because he threatened them. But actually, IMO:

- IF they were sneaking around and doing drugs in the middle of the night, they could have been afraid of being caught.
- IF the story about stealing Ron's prized gun for money is true, then they could have been afraid that this plan could have been exposed.
- IF they gave something to Haleigh so she would sleep and not catch them and this caused her death/or an accident caused her death, they could have been afraid of being found out.
- IF they all did something unspeakable while high on drugs, they could be afraid that this might come out.
- IF JO was high on drugs and went on a rampage, then they could have been actually afraid of him.

With the first four of these, Misty and Tommy could very well have been terrified of losing their significant others and homes - and for Tommy, his kids - as well as being convicted of a crime.

It seems hard to believe that they would not fight for the life of a child or would participate in a cover up involving a child they supposedly loved. But if their initial judgement was clouded by drugs then maybe they couldn't back out once the cover-up plan was set in motion. Maybe they were afraid to betray each other. Or maybe they couldn't face admitting to their families or themselves what they had done.

If it can be substantiated that JO was in the trailer with Misty and Tommy, then he is involved.

I do not think Misty hanging posters with Joe was for public image --

If they had been involved, they would have been as nervous as cats on a hot tin roof .. and Joe would have left town immediately

Something about the whole story is so convenient ...

 

[Quiche]

Of course, if "they" were going to frame JO, "they" certainly knew he was leaving town the following day. Imo, from the very get go it seemed all the players were pointing at the outsider, Joe. This particular insinuation/accusation is nothing new. mo

 

[pittsburghgirl]

To me, if Joe was in the MH and took HaLeigh out -- as alleged -- I would expect LE to find fingerprints and DNA and maybe even hairs.

LE stated that they did not consider this crime a stranger abduction. While Joe is not a stranger he would have surely become a POI immediately given that he was in the area such a short time and went out of State the day afterwards, as planned.

To me, that rules out Joe since LE seem to think the close family of HaLeigh are/were involved and while Misty and ToC might have been scared of Joe that day --- Misty was confident enough to hang posters with Joe that same day AND it has been over 12 months of hassle and grief they have suffered.

Joe has been floated more as a convenient scapegoat at times, not as THE perp. If they were so scared of Joe why did they not seek LE protection when they first named him? They have been confident enough to point to him when under heat.

There are many reasons why Joe is not involved or simply helped them out after the fact.

LE almost certainly has DNA, hair and the like. If Joe was in the trailer at any point, the presence of hair, fiber or DNA would not be inherently suspicious. If Tommy and Misty have repeatedly lied, and LE has repeatedly not believed them, then something must be different about this version of the story. I've always thought someone took Haleigh based on what Junior said. I think he would have recognized Tommy, though I have no way of knowing that for sure. I am one of those people who think RC really was at work, and I think LE has verified that, so that narrows the field quite a bit if Haleigh was seen alive after he left the house. If it wasn't a stranger abduction, then we are left with whomever Misty was entertaining that night.

 

[kamky]

LE almost certainly has DNA, hair and the like. If Joe was in the trailer at any point, the presence of hair, fiber or DNA would not be inherently suspicious. If Tommy and Misty have repeatedly lied, and LE has repeatedly not believed them, then something must be different about this version of the story. I've always thought someone took Haleigh based on what Junior said. I think he would have recognized Tommy, though I have no way of knowing that for sure. I am one of those people who think RC really was at work, and I think LE has verified that, so that narrows the field quite a bit if Haleigh was seen alive after he left the house. If it wasn't a stranger abduction, then we are left with whomever Misty was entertaining that night.

Makes sense to me. In the beginning, when LE apparently thought that Misty left the trailer, they kept asking for witnesses to come forward and say where she was. We haven't heard LE make this request for a while now. It sounds like LE may now think what ever happened to Haleigh occurred in the home. Now, as you say, they have to determine who was there in the middle of the night.

Luckily, it sounds like both Tommy and Misty are breaking down and revealing details. I hope that LE will be able to collaborate the details.

 

[raisincharlie]

Makes sense to me. In the beginning, when LE apparently thought that Misty left the trailer, they kept asking for witnesses to come forward and say where she was. We haven't heard LE make this request for a while now. It sounds like LE may now think what ever happened to Haleigh occurred in the home. Now, as you say, they have to determine who was there in the middle of the night.

Luckily, it sounds like both Tommy and Misty are breaking down and revealing details. I hope that LE will be able to collaborate the details.

It doesn't seem to me that LE thinks whatever happened to Haleigh happened in the home.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=78318315001#/Sheriff%20Jeff%20Hardy%20Updates%20Haleigh%20Cummings%20Case/78318315001

At 4:55 in this video Sheriff Hardy indicates that whatever happened to Haleigh, may very well have happened right in Shell Harbour. He also still says Misty is the key and also that she knows she is in trouble.

 

[kamky]

It doesn't seem to me that LE thinks whatever happened to Haleigh happened in the home.

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=78318315001#/Sheriff%20Jeff%20Hardy%20Updates%20Haleigh%20Cummings%20Case/78318315001

At 4:55 in this video Sheriff Hardy indicates that whatever happened to Haleigh, may very well have happened right in Shell Harbour. He also still says Misty is the key and also that she knows she is in trouble.

You raise an interesting point that brings up more questions. If Haleigh didn't die in the home and her body taken to Shell Harbour for disposal, then why was she taken to Shell Harbour? If we can assume that Misty, Tommy, and JO were in the home to do something - do drugs, steal Ron's gun, etc, then what would have prompted some or all of them to go to Shell Harbor - with Haleigh?

 

[txsvicki]

Jr. said that two black men came to see Misty and the couch was bouncing. He didn't say that one of these two took Haleigh, but that a man dressed all in black took her. The two men might have been who Misty was entertaining, but not the one who took Haleigh out of the home later on.

 

[Cowdaddy]

The reason I have suspected Jo is because I have my own reasons for eliminating Tommy as a murderer. Namely, that Tommy is an opiate addict, and opiate addicts are known for cowardly and small thefts--such as Tommy's theft of the gun, and generally not for violent crimes such as murder. Opiate addicts generally seek to avoid heat, and armed robberies and dead bodies and missing children draw a lot of heat.

I also believe that if Haleigh's death was not an accident, then a sex crime is probable. Opiate addicts don't any much interest in sex.

The thing about JO is we know hardly anything about him other than that he had been in trouble as a juvenile--according to Granny Hollars. I posted that Granny Hollars said Jo was in jail on his 18th birthday for stealing a car, but somebody corrected me and said I heard that incorrectly. I don't know if I'm right or the person who corrected me is right.

We also know that he had a picture of himself on his myspace page holding a gun. I read where someone posted that there were references to marijuana on his myspace page.

We know he was in town the night Haleigh went missing. I am not clear how sure we are that he went out in the van, but we know that the van was damaged that night or sometime close to that night. We know that Timmy and Chelsea say they didn't damage the van. Unless I am mistaken, Chelsea did voice some suspicions that Jo was out in the van.

We know that Misty is a drug abuser and a passed out drug abuser can sleep through a lot, including telephones ringing or even an abduction that took place in the same room. (We don't know that Misty took drugs that evening--but it is not unlikely that she did.)

We know that it was reported that Misty and/or Tommy reported that Jo told them a certain spot would be good for a murder. If I heard anybody say anything like that, I know I would take that a lot more seriously than I would take any of Ronald Cummings' ranting and raving. However, we don't know that JO actually said that.

We know that Misty said that both Tommy and JO molested her when she was 6 (JO, I believe) and 7 (Tommy, I believe). We don't know if this is true or not.

We know that Granny Hollars does not seem to have a high opinion of JO. She also believes that Misty and Tommy are involved.

Ron--I just have to take the police at their word on him and his being at work. He is a low life and a bad character--and I question whether some of his sobbing was authentic--but all of the theories I've read about Ron's involvement seem to assume a whole lot. The theory that Ron accidentally killed Haleigh and left it to the other three to dispose of her assumes a whole lot, namely that he could trust them to handle a job like that, when I don't believe those three could be trusted to do much other than eat pills or steal. I don't think that together those three could handle disposing of a dead dog.

JO is twenty something years old. And my understanding is that usually when somebody twenty something--or any age--commits a crime like this, they usually have some type of violent crime on their records. We don't know of JO having any violent crime on his record.

Because I have my doubts about Ron, Tommy, or Misty being responsible for Haleigh's disappearance, that leaves JO. I have read just about all the archived news articles and I don't know anything about JO other than what I've typed in this post. I know I am not as familiar with the archives as a lot of people on here.

To me JO is an unknown. But what I do know about him is not good, namely that he was on myspace holding a gun and that his grandmother seems to believe he is responsible. And he may have referred to a certain place as being a good place for murder.

 

[Kimster]

Well thought out post, Cowdaddy! One thing that stuck out to me was in the last paragraph, that Flo believes he is responsible. She would know him! I'm still not sure, though. I'm really confused, which would probably make Misty very happy. Especially if I were eligible to serve on the jury in this case.

 

[Dum-Dum Sucker]

BBM. It's apparent Jo did not tell the truth about everything.. According to his grandmother he didn't want to discuss it.. He would walk away..
However I don't believe he is the one responsible for what happened to Haleigh..IMHO.. We will all soon learn Haleigh died due to her father's out of control anger.....
I also believe we will learn there are quite a few Cummings that haven't told the truth either..And it wasn't because the truth didn't feel good or they cared if people got angry, it was because they cared more about covering Ron C's rear end than they did honoring Haleigh's life and her memory..JMO



BTW.. And I don't believe Jo is guilty of raping Haleigh either......JMO

:clap: You're a Gem, Em.

 

[krkrjx]

So many incredible tales are being thrown around by the players and their families in this case. I have had JO on my list of possible perps since the beginning and he remains there. But, he has always been at the bottom of the list.

I think it is possible JO was there that night and could be involved in some way, but most likely it was in the cover-up, imo. If JO was the perp, why didn't that come out a long time ago?

Misty and Tommy were threatened by JO so couldn't say anything? That's total carp, imo. First of all, the "threat" left the area right away, so MC and TC no longer had reason to fear him and could have gone to LE. Secondly, MC claims the back doors were propped open. If JO (or anyone) had threatened her, why would she sit in the MH with a door wide open? If it were me, I would have closed and locked the doors, huddled in a room with Junior and got on the phone to LE as soon as the threat was out the door. No way would I sit there alone with a small child with the door wide open after having been threatened by someone!

Misty said in her voice stress test that no one had threatened her, and that even if they had it would not have stopped her from telling. Now she is in jail, desperate, and now comes the story of having been threatened and too scared to tell.

If JO did this despicable deed, RC would have gone after him; he raved during the 911 call about killing whoever "stole" his child. Yet, RC was the one insisting JO had not been at the MH that night, even when others tried to say he had been. At first, I thought it could be because JO was in fact guilty and RC knew it and had plans to deal with JO on his own. But that never happened. RC never sought JO out, he stayed with Misty, threatened TC with a dead rat and tried in various ways to keep Misty away from her family.

JO stays on my list of possibilities but IMO his role (if any) is covering up. I will stay with that opinion until I see some evidence to the contrary, or until JO admits involvement in the crime.

 

[gngr~snap]

JO would have been a dead man on 2/10/09 IF he had harmed Haleigh in any way. Instead of chilling in the morgue he was out hanging flyers with MC the next morning before he high-tailed it outta there.
Does he know something? I bet he does! And to insure that he stay silent Ron is covering JO's butt.
Ron even states JO was not at the MH.
Ron knows JO was not complicit in Haleigh's demise and has given him a free pass OVER and OVER again. a "departing gift" even.

GOOD GRIEF I may be wrong as rain but JO is runnin scared and not about to confront any one about anything, much less harm anyone in his family. He has had 15 months if he was a hot head he would have exploded by now.

I swear I feel like I am dribbling a football here!

 

[Peliman]

We know that Misty said that both Tommy and JO molested her when she was 6 (JO, I believe) and 7 (Tommy, I believe). We don't know if this is true or not.

I'm listening and not sure where the ages come from. For this to be true JO would have been around 8 years old at the time. Tommy would have been 13 when Misty was 7. I'm open to correction here but those are really young ages.

Tommy age 24
JO 20
Misty 18

 

[Cowdaddy]

I'm listening and not sure where the ages come from. For this to be true JO would have been around 8 years old at the time. Tommy would have been 13 when Misty was 7. I'm open to correction here but those are really young ages.

Tommy age 24
JO 20
Misty 18

I've read and seen so much stuff that I sure can't remember where I think I saw the ages. Now that I think about it, it must have been in an article quoting Misty. If JO is only 2 years older than Misty, she would have had to have been much older than 6--if it ever happened at all.

I believe Granny Hollars discounts Misty's claim about being molested by JO.

 

[dodie20]

The reason I have suspected Jo is because I have my own reasons for eliminating Tommy as a murderer. Namely, that Tommy is an opiate addict, and opiate addicts are known for cowardly and small thefts--such as Tommy's theft of the gun, and generally not for violent crimes such as murder. Opiate addicts generally seek to avoid heat, and armed robberies and dead bodies and missing children draw a lot of heat.

I also believe that if Haleigh's death was not an accident, then a sex crime is probable. Opiate addicts don't any much interest in sex.

The thing about JO is we know hardly anything about him other than that he had been in trouble as a juvenile--according to Granny Hollars. I posted that Granny Hollars said Jo was in jail on his 18th birthday for stealing a car, but somebody corrected me and said I heard that incorrectly. I don't know if I'm right or the person who corrected me is right.

We also know that he had a picture of himself on his myspace page holding a gun. I read where someone posted that there were references to marijuana on his myspace page.

We know he was in town the night Haleigh went missing. I am not clear how sure we are that he went out in the van, but we know that the van was damaged that night or sometime close to that night. We know that Timmy and Chelsea say they didn't damage the van. Unless I am mistaken, Chelsea did voice some suspicions that Jo was out in the van.

We know that Misty is a drug abuser and a passed out drug abuser can sleep through a lot, including telephones ringing or even an abduction that took place in the same room. (We don't know that Misty took drugs that evening--but it is not unlikely that she did.)

We know that it was reported that Misty and/or Tommy reported that Jo told them a certain spot would be good for a murder. If I heard anybody say anything like that, I know I would take that a lot more seriously than I would take any of Ronald Cummings' ranting and raving. However, we don't know that JO actually said that.

We know that Misty said that both Tommy and JO molested her when she was 6 (JO, I believe) and 7 (Tommy, I believe). We don't know if this is true or not.

We know that Granny Hollars does not seem to have a high opinion of JO. She also believes that Misty and Tommy are involved.

Ron--I just have to take the police at their word on him and his being at work. He is a low life and a bad character--and I question whether some of his sobbing was authentic--but all of the theories I've read about Ron's involvement seem to assume a whole lot. The theory that Ron accidentally killed Haleigh and left it to the other three to dispose of her assumes a whole lot, namely that he could trust them to handle a job like that, when I don't believe those three could be trusted to do much other than eat pills or steal. I don't think that together those three could handle disposing of a dead dog.

JO is twenty something years old. And my understanding is that usually when somebody twenty something--or any age--commits a crime like this, they usually have some type of violent crime on their records. We don't know of JO having any violent crime on his record.

Because I have my doubts about Ron, Tommy, or Misty being responsible for Haleigh's disappearance, that leaves JO. I have read just about all the archived news articles and I don't know anything about JO other than what I've typed in this post. I know I am not as familiar with the archives as a lot of people on here.

To me JO is an unknown. But what I do know about him is not good, namely that he was on myspace holding a gun and that his grandmother seems to believe he is responsible. And he may have referred to a certain place as being a good place for murder.

I agree with a lot of your post, but I have to tell you that I've known some very violent opiate addicts with hugh sex drives. But, they were also using other stuff. Misty called Tommy a crackhead & he admitted to smoking pot that day. IMO, he's an equal opportunity drug user-whatever he can get his hands on. I believed Misty's accusations of molestation-mainly because he didn't do anything to dispute it. This was passed around on news shows & the internet, & he & his wife barely blinked. So, imo, anyway, Tommy's not looking too good.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

ON 6 PM News:

I could not quote - I paraphrased JW on 6 PM News

JW: re: release of phone convo - we wanted to show how cooperative tommy has been since i've come on board (since April)
JW: Tommy had no active participation; he accompanied JO to the river where body ended up
JW: ToC went down to the river w/JO by force - weapon

I'd like to see how that happened. There was Joe, with a body in one hand and a gun in the other, forcing Tommy to go to the river. Don't forget the blocks and the rope!

Or, did Joe point the gun at Tommy while he forced ToC to pick up the body, toss her into the vehicle, and drive to the river? Cinder blocks and rope, too.

Doesn't make sense. Now if someone else was with them, on Joe's side, helping Joe force Tommy........ Or Joe has the gun, and forces two people to move the body into the van, the blocks, gather the rope, then they go to the river.

How's that werkin' for ya'? It isn't werkin' for me. One guy with a gun. A cousin with a gun. If the child was dead, two people could toss her into the guy with the gun and make him drop it.

None of this werks for me. Help!

Only way JO was involved was if he somehow was there for the coverup, and the whole thing wasn't his fault, or his idea, or he stumbled across the motley crew doing the cover up . He may have seen something, that's why he grandmother says "he wasn't the same" when he returned to Tennessee.

Maybe the event happened at Lisa and Hank's house next Shell Harbor?

 

[Zoe Bogart]

But they went to Nashville?

At least Lindsey --- kind of curious why she was in Nashville with Lisa at Flora's?

And a divorce discussion had already taken place?
Odd

Are you talking about when Tommy called GrannyHollars? On the tape just released? Lisa wasn't at Flora's house. Lindsy wasn't at Flora's house. Lindsy was called on the other telephone by FloraH while Tommy was on the other line. The woman in the background was one of Flora's daughters, not JO's mom, and not Lisa, but the daughter who lives with Flora.