Was JonBenet Posed?

[BlueCrab]

Bluecrab be honest about what Meyer REALLY said! He said, and this is just a FACT - that you can NOT determine whether a stun gun was used unless you EXAMINE THE TISSUE. Which they could not do as Hunter nor the Ramseys would agree to have the body exhumed. The injuries described in the official autopy report are NOT the way an injury would be described were it the result from a stun gun. No burns. Just "abrasions." Not the same thing.

So you can speculate all you want. This stun gun nonsense is NOT a fact.
Anymore than you can claim to know exactly what object it was that was used to cause the head blow. It would just be pure speculation.

Angel,

I am not speculating. The marks on JonBenet are consistent with stun gun injuries. When John Meyer performed the autopsy he described the injuries as abrasions in his report, but Meyer later changed his mind.

Page 431, PMPT pb:

"When they had gathered sufficient information, Ainsworth, Pete Hofstrom, Trip DeMuth, and Detective Sgt. Wickman met with the coroner, John Meyer. After reviewing the photos and this new information, Meyer concluded that the injuries on JonBenet's face and back were, in fact, consistent with those produced by a stun gun."

JMO

 

[sissi]

Has anyone taken note of the author of the link I posted?
I'm glad you enjoyed it BrotherMoon! If this is the same Mcelroy he has refined his writing a bit, but the theme is the same.

 

[Ivy]

McElroy (a.k.a. The Prophet) gave a palm print (the fake ransom note contained a partial palm print) and a saliva sample to the BPD. Apparently his palm print didn't match the partial palm print on the note, or we'd know about it. Also, by this time, his DNA must have been compared to the DNA from the crime scene. If there was a match, we would know about that too.

McElroy did not kill JonBenet.

imo

 

[K777angel]

Angel,

I am not speculating. The marks on JonBenet are consistent with stun gun injuries. When John Meyer performed the autopsy he described the injuries as abrasions in his report, but Meyer later changed his mind.

Page 431, PMPT pb:

"When they had gathered sufficient information, Ainsworth, Pete Hofstrom, Trip DeMuth, and Detective Sgt. Wickman met with the coroner, John Meyer. After reviewing the photos and this new information, Meyer concluded that the injuries on JonBenet's face and back were, in fact, consistent with those produced by a stun gun."

JMO

Here is what Dr. Henry Lee wrote in his most recent book regarding possible stun gun marks on JonBenet: "When Smit consulted the Boulder coroner, Dr. John Meyer said that he could not say for certain that the marks came from such a weapon, but allowed that this was possible."
He has also stated that one could never make a true diagnosis without examining the tissue of the skin.
Something being "consistent with" and being a firm diagnosis are two different things. You cannot say that she WAS stun gunned. You have absolutely no proof. Only that "it is possible."
Alex Hunter has stated that they basically dismissed this theory after investigating it.
That is obvious.

 

[sissi]

McElroy (a.k.a. The Prophet) gave a palm print (the fake ransom note contained a partial palm print) and a saliva sample to the BPD. Apparently his palm print didn't match the partial palm print on the note, or we'd know about it. Also, by this time, his DNA must have been compared to the DNA from the crime scene. If there was a match, we would know about that too.

McElroy did not kill JonBenet.

imo

I agree,he was cleared!
I do remember his alibi, he was robotripping over the holiday,took in a starwars movie with his father(who died shortly after), went to bed early via his mom. I just can't help but think he "knows" who was capable of this kind of thing, one among his "group", one who studied "under" him, one who learned the knots of bondage, one who took him too literally. For example ,when he decapitated Barbie, put her in bondage, called her the "ultimate f", I believe he was suggesting the symbolism of barbie, however, someone may have fantasized at a more base level, not understanding the issues he took with barbie were more of a political stance.
We know he had sharpies, pads, a stun gun,and boots that were confiscated by the police, we know he gave a swab and took a lie detector test. Do we know if the swab was tested? Most of all, we know they failed to take his harddrive, and that always bothered me. Within his contacts they may have found a murderer. IMO

Read his stuff..he used "hence" aplenty,gentlemen, discusses child murder...did ya read his stuff? This language could be emulated by followers.

http://63.147.65.175/books/beat0801.htm

it's always been alive and well in Boulder

 

[BlueCrab]

Something being "consistent with" and being a firm diagnosis are two different things. You cannot say that she WAS stun gunned. You have absolutely no proof. Only that "it is possible."

Angel,

You cannot say for certain the sun will rise tomorrow morning. You can only say that tomorrow's projected sunrise will likely be consistent with what has happened for several billion years, and therefore one can say the sun will likely rise.

Most of the pathologists who were asked to review the photos of JonBenet's injuries say they are consistent with stun gun injuries, and therefore one can say JonBenet was likely stungunned.

JMO

 

[K777angel]

Angel,

You cannot say for certain the sun will rise tomorrow morning. You can only say that tomorrow's projected sunrise will likely be consistent with what has happened for several billion years, and therefore one can say the sun will likely rise.

Most of the pathologists who were asked to review the photos of JonBenet's injuries say they are consistent with stun gun injuries, and therefore one can say JonBenet was likely stungunned.

JMO

C'mon Bluecrab - we are talking about something that happened past tense - NOT something that may happen in the future. Nice try.

One CANNOT "say JonBenet was likely stungunned." And the coroner who EXAMINED HER has never said it was "likely" she was stun gunned. He merely said the marks on her body could be consistent with a stun gun BUT (and this is a HUGE but..) you cannot know for sure without examining the tissue!!!
WHich was NEVER done. So NO ONE can say she was likely stun gunned or that she was stun gunned. Only that the marks look like they "could" be those kinds of marks. And other pathologists say they do NOT look like they are.

 

[BlueCrab]

He merely said the marks on her body could be consistent with a stun gun ...

Angel,

"Could be?" Sorry, Meyer didn't say that.

John Meyer, a board certified forensic pathologist and the only pathologist who measured and closely examined the injuries on JonBenet, concluded that:

"The injuries on JonBenet's face and back were, in fact, consistent with those produced by a stun gun." (Page 431, PMPT pb)

Also, other pathologists agreed the body of JonBenet would NOT have to be exhumed to determine for sure if the injuries were consistent with stun gun injuries. The photos were proof enough.

"Soon after, Ainsworth learned of a 1988 Larimer County murder in which a stun gun had been used on a thirteen-month-old girl, Michaela Hughes, who had been sexually assaulted and killed. Ainsworth met with Dr. Robert Deters, the pathologist on the case, and showed him the autopsy photos of JonBenet. Deters agreed that the marks were consistent with a stun-gun injury, but he didn't think the body had to be exhumed. Nothing more would be learned by examining the skin tissue." (Page 431, PMPT pb)

JMO

 

[Nehemiah]

If indeed a stun gun were applied, I don't think it occurred in her bedroom. I think that would have been too risky; she may have screamed out. I think that it occurred in the basement, possibly to immobilize her so that she could be restrained. I don't know if those are stun gun marks, but there are definitely marks on her body of some type. What else they could be is a major question that no one has publicly answered definitively.


IMO

 

[BrotherMoon]

If indeed a stun gun were applied, I don't think it occurred in her bedroom. I think that would have been too risky; she may have screamed out. I think that it occurred in the basement, possibly to immobilize her so that she could be restrained. I don't know if those are stun gun marks, but there are definitely marks on her body of some type. What else they could be is a major question that no one has publicly answered definitively.
IMO

This is what fence sitting produces.

Word: gound GOOD, fence BAD.

 

[BlueCrab]

If indeed a stun gun were applied, I don't think it occurred in her bedroom. I think that would have been too risky; she may have screamed out. I think that it occurred in the basement, possibly to immobilize her so that she could be restrained. I don't know if those are stun gun marks, but there are definitely marks on her body of some type. What else they could be is a major question that no one has publicly answered definitively.


IMO

Nehemiah,

Good post. There's convincing evidence a stun gun left the strange injuries on JonBenet, but the pineapple evidence negates that a stun gun was used on JonBenet in her bedroom. She wouldn't have been in the mood to go downstairs and snack on pineapple with someone who had just stunguuned her upstairs in her bedroom. If a stun gun had been used, it would for certain have taken place in the basement.

JMO

 

[twizzler333]

If the parents did murder and/or stage this, what would their reason be for using the stun gun?

If Patsy was in a rage and cracked her skull then staged it, why stun gun her too? If these aren't stun gun marks, what are the marks from?

If her brother had something to do with it I can see the possibility of a stun gun being used.

I guess what I am getting at is, what is the best scenario for even using the stun gun and if it wasn't a stun gun, then what? With all the different theories out there, I'd like to see where these marks fit into the scenarios out there. I can see a few possibilities with some of the theories I have read, but how do some of you explain the marks with your theories? just curious.

 

[sissi]

Pliers?
It is evident that this crime can't be solved because there are so many sadistic elements involved that just can't be attributed to a parent or to Burke. To keep these people under our "umbrella" is to keep thinking in circles. IMO
The body was redressed and coverered in a blanket. IMO this indicates the murderer cared about Jonbenet . (redressed is only pulling her clothing back up to cover her,would a stranger care if they left her naked and violated for the parents to find?)

There is evidence of torture, her brain was swollen in a manner suggestive of brain injury by asphyxia, it is possible that she was brought back and forth between consciousness and unconsciousness in a deadly game. The scratches on her legs and back suggest she struggled against her attacker, IMO, this suggests she was bludgeoned after "he" was finished with her.
If we consider the pineapple fitting into this crime, then we have to consider she knew her attacker well enough to follow him downstairs before being caught up in his planned attack. Who would she "go off with" is an important question that should have been asked of the Ramseys and of all of her friends. Who did she trust? Is there a person that would not cause her to be frightened if he came into the house in the middle of the night? Was there anything to indicate he had visited before with trial runs to gain her confidence? Were there signs of her feeling unsafe? If she had not been asleep when they put her in her room ,would she have preferred to be safely in her brother's room? Where did she spend those nights preceding Christmas?
Instead of presuming a Ramsey guilty, LE should have sided with them in their efforts to catch this killer.

I mention pliers because they are another tool used in bondage.
IMO


http://www.fetishculture.com/resource_main_page.html

scroll down, it may also explain the "smell" some claim of peroxide/ozone?

 

[VespaElf]

LE should have sided with them in their efforts to catch this killer.

Pray tell how that wouldve been acomplished?

The Ramsey's tried to leave town immediately after the "discovery" of JBR's body
#1 and #2 they did everything they could NOT to co-operate!

What efforts have the Ramsey's put forth? Appearing on CNN? Lying about starting a foundation? What have John and Patsy done then or since to catch thise elusive,unknown killer???


AND why would they clearly obstruct justice(at the very least) to protect this "stranger"???


This case is not that complicated although the perps. of the cover-up tried to make it appear so(the ransom note and bondage elements are obviously red herrings!!)

 

[sissi]

This information was provided by whom? LE? To the media? To us? and ya believe it? I don't!
IMO!

 

[VespaElf]

I think you need to read DOI and hear directly from The Ramseys and then after reading have a very long think about everything we do know to be fact................


I don't see how anyone can belive they're on the up and up!

 

[sissi]

I have read DOI a few times and the NE book a few times ,as well. What I see is a family who had police around them for days, a family who answered questions, the same questions over and over, and a family who saw themselves becoming the suspects. I can only imagine the frustration, knowing there is a killer loose while continuing to be told "we can connect you to this crime".
IMO

 

[Ivy]

Not even the most expensive, dirtiest lawyers in the business have been able to get the Ramseys cleared. If there weren't evidence pointing directly at the Ramseys, LE would have cleared them by now, instead of putting up with the Ramseys and their supporters screaming NO FAIR! at the top of their lungs.

imo

 

[BrotherMoon]

I can only imagine the frustration, knowing there is a killer loose while continuing to be told "we can connect you to this crime".
IMO

Especially if you are the killer. :doh:

 

[sissi]

After reading Singular's book, I felt there was more to this murder than any other current "whodunnit". Without detailing for the reader, after volumes having been said about child and such, he mentioned ONE item in ONE sentence that made me curious about Boulder and the people who aren't really mainstreamed into the population.
Sure ! Boulder is heavily populated with intellectuals and philosophers,(brother moon could find many compeers ),but these people generally are trying to find their meaning of life, not trying to destroy life. Having said this, I know that among the beat set, there will be followers who are schizzy or worse, and sure one may have taken Mcelroy's stuff too literally ..but somehow I doubt it.
There is an uglier side to Boulder, recognising it would be heretic for any upstanding Boulderite.
It's not made up, it's real!

Cultists may follow drug routes into state

Boulderite studies ritual of cultists

By Kevin McCullen, Rocky Mountain News
Published: April 15, 1989







BOULDER -- Followers of a violent cult similar to the one involved in human sacrifices in Mexico could follow drug routes into Colorado, a Boulder police detective said yesterday.

Believers in Palo Mayombe, a violent offshoot of the religion Santeria, are circulating in the Cuban community, particularly in Florida, said Detective Lt. Jerry Hoover, who studies Santeria and Satanism as part of his doctorate work in anthropology.

Santerians already are in Colorado, and Boulder police last summer found an altar inside a home during a cocaine bust and a feather "offering" on the steps of a church.

and this story over a hundred years old..

Who read archives of Rocky Mountain news, read for the following, "scrutiny, knots, etc.? !800's...a side note for entertainment
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/spookymountainnews/05071876.shtml