Was Josh Seen Buying A LARGE Amount of Shrink Wrap?

[PickieChickie]

I don't know which stories are true, but I know he mentioned the generator himself. If he'd take a generator camping, then he's not much of a winter camper and as others have said not even much of a camper at all. A guy that would take a generator camping would be the same kind that would use a small torch to light a campfire. Both items could have other uses, as could a sled. Good ole Josh isn't proving to be mister nice guy after all. The shrink wrap points to a more sinister combination of these things for me, but we are still talking about things in the abstract so far. I too want to hope Susan is still alive.

Since there are three standard types of gas torches, two of which are handheld and pictured in my post below, it very well may be the person who learned about the torch purchase added the word "cutting" to the description, without realizing the difference and which made the purchase more suspicious.

Acetylene torches, aka cutting torches, require an additional tank as Grandma posted a photo of below where as the other two types do not. I am assuming he purchased the handheld variety and not an actual cutting torch.

If he indeed purchased a $300.00 plus acetylene aka cutting torch on Monday morning, the 7th of December, that is HIGHLY suspicious and wouldn't have been a purchase to start a fire or roast marshmallows for S'Moures.

Also, generators are pretty loud, unless he purchased one of those $1000.00 "really quiet" handheld portable types which I doubt but could be a possibility:http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/models.aspx?page=models&section=P2GG&category=play

 

[mysticrose]

Here is the website for Air Gas in SLC mentioned above where Josh possibly bought the cutting torch, looks like only one location sells out of their location in Salt Lake City:

http://www.airgas.com/home.aspx?cat=0

 

[PickieChickie]

Here is the website for Air Gas in SLC mentioned above where Josh possibly bought the cutting torch, looks like only one location sells out of their location in Salt Lake City:

http://www.airgas.com/home.aspx?cat=0

I think you should call the store and ask them what style torch Josh Powell purchased on December 7, 2009. It's not against the law to ask! Lol!

 

[grayjay]

Not the store for the marshmallow toasting, fire starting torch. Those are from Walmart or Sears. I don't hope this is true, but it's not about marshmallows. Looks like he may have skipped a safety lesson, and without gloves the heat dried out his hands a lot. They say wear gloves, but some people have to learn everything the hard way.

 

[rd_jfc]

ok, I see. I thought the purchases were from the same confirmed source but only the plastic wrap is from the confirmed source. Handheld torch from a post somewhere and generator from a statement he made.

thanks for the clarification.

rd

 

[Mesmerized]

Does anybody know where the boys were when JP drove several hundred miles in the rental car? Were they with him on this second adventure, or being watched by friends/family?

(Sorry, I don't know how to start a new thread.)

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Agree w bolded GMTA (Grandma's Minds Think Alike LOL) I don't think it was blood he's more the soft kill (or poisoning) type IMO. I think it was more likely vomit (he could never have gotten every trace w/out luminol detecting, and a large bleed out would seem sufficient probable cause for LE to have made an arrest by now). In all probability he either suffocated, strangled and/or poisoned her IMO he is too OCD to do anything very messy (he was probably po'd there was any leakage of bodily fluids and went to work furiously cleaning that nite w the boys' poor mother stuffed in the back of the van inside garage). :furious:

The one point I might differ w is the distance to which I believe JP was willing to travel--I do agree that he is inept, disorganized and fails to follow thru but because often (tho as we've seen not always) the more closely perp can be linked to his victim, the greater the need for "distancing" where disposal is concerned. And when it's a crime of rage caused by loss of self-control in their own home, exerting control in executing the perfect cover-up became critical. But even more importantly in this case in order to outwit everyone--but especially his wife. I believe JP had long felt inferior to Susan and grew more frustrated and jealous over the years due to Susan's friendships and superior abilities and comparative intelligence. I firmly believe he is a narcissistic sociopath whose envy consumed him. Because he is such a control freak--and murdering his wife to him the ultimate power play--I think it was for him a personal challenge from which he would have derived a great deal of satisfaction out of getting away w it and went to EXTREME lengths (w the aid of his father's advice, I feel sure) to ensure that he one-upped Susan and outsmarted his wife (and LE) and lived happily ever after, with their boys and without her... that's JMO though.

Grandma's are no slackers lol, you've got a lot of wisdom friend, hey they don't call us "grandma" for nothin :biggrin: :dance:

:grandma: :grandma:

arrot:

Thanks kiki! I've noticed that we agree on almost everything. I've been enjoying your wisdom - your articulate, interesting posts ever since I returned to WS to follow the sad Powell case. Thank you for many excellent, intelligent reads! :clap:

About the possible blood on the living room carpeting - I agree with you that Josh is much more likely to be a soft-kill type killer. The only reason I mentioned the blood is because a well known and often correct crime-blogger claims she has reliable inside information that blood WAS found in the Powell home. However, she didn't know the amount of blood. (The website link is not allowed on WS)

I agree that if LE had determined there was a large amount of blood cleaned up from the living room carpeting, Josh would probably have been arrested by now.

Natch, I agree with everything in your post. I just probably might believe Josh is lazier and more chicken than you might. If there was a nicely secluded, well used remote dumpster around, I wouldn't be surprised if he tossed Susan in as fast as he could drive there.

Growing up in Puyallup, Joshua wouldn't have had much experience driving on icy roads during blizzard conditions; and I don't know that living in the SLC burbs would provide him with enough ice/snow-driving experience to brave that night's dangerous roads for such a long distance.

I'm not so sure he would have risked driving in a blizzard to the west desert with a dead body in the back of the min-van and two small, tired, fussy boys in the middle seats. Sooo much could have gone wrong.

You never know what desperate killers will do, though. Scott Peterson launched a 16 foot aluminum fishing boat onto the windy, choppy unpredictable San Francisco Bay to dump the wife he had just murdered. Sixteen foot boats in the SF Bay are very RARE anytime - but especially in the winter.

It's obvious that Susan was so much more intelligent than Josh - so much more of a go-getter - and so much better liked and respected by all their friends than Joshua was.

That's one of the reasons I'm mystified that none of their friends put out an all-points-bulletin-flyer regarding Josh and his mini-vans' whereabouts on Dec. 6th, 7th, and 9th, 10th. Josh's spur of the moment, middle-of-the-night, blizzard, S'More camping trip alibi has to be one of the most farcical in the history of wife-murderers.

The Powell's friends must realize the likely blatant lies of Josh's alibi -- yet no one attempts to find out his real locations during and right after the time Susan disappeared. Very strange! Very sad!

I too believe that Josh's daddy is privy to all of Josh's murderous behavior. I hope LE nails him along with Josh. They're two peas in a pod and have both spent a great portion of their lives making two good women miserable. At least daddy didn't kill his torture victim.

Congratulations, kiki on your new granddaughter! _ :dance: _ Aren't they great? I was GrandmaTo4 in 2003 but I'm Grammy to 6 now. Grandkids are the only things nice about getting old, LOL.

 

[PickieChickie]

Does anybody know where the boys were when JP drove several hundred miles in the rental car? Were they with him on this second adventure, or being watched by friends/family?

(Sorry, I don't know how to start a new thread.)

JP left the boys with his sister and brother-in-law, Jennifer and Kirk Graves, both of whom have been interviewed on national TV.

I find it suspicious that he didn't take the boys with him. The car was rented on December 9 or 10, 2009 and returned 24 hours later.

Why would JP leave his boys, who could be questioned by Kirk, Jennifer, a social worker or law enforcement?

It is my opinion whatever he did while he had the rental car was something he didn't want the boys to see. Why else would he risk leaving the boys where they could blurt out information or be questioned?

Also, since he lost his job and no longer had Susan's income, why did he feel he had the money to rent a car when he could have waited for the van to be returned or borrowed a car from his mother or a friend, or asked someone to drive him wherever he needed to go!

 

[grayjay]

I just probably might believe Josh is lazier and more chicken than you might. If there was a nicely secluded, well used remote dumpster around, I wouldn't be surprised if he tossed Susan in as fast as he could drive there.

I gather that Josh purchased many things and well may have been a hoarder. For all the stuff he removed from the house and it looked like more of his than hers, I'm guessing he had lots of big ideas and plans and energy at least to buy things for the workshop and storage shed. When I have no energy the last thing I'm up to do is go buy more stuff.

 

[PickieChickie]

I gather that Josh purchased many things and well may have been a hoarder. For all the stuff he removed from the house and it looked like more of his than hers, I'm guessing he had lots of big ideas and plans and energy at least to buy things for the workshop and storage shed. When I have no energy the last thing I'm up to do is go buy more stuff.

I too noticed the garage was disorganized and jammed full of stuff when the forensic team was taking things out of the garage.

In FACT, I didn't see how the van could be parked in there at all (unless I'm thinking of the moving footage.)

 

[Mesmerized]

JP left the boys with his sister and brother-in-law, Jennifer and Kirk Graves, both of whom have been interviewed on national TV.

I find it suspicious that he didn't take the boys with him. The car was rented on December 9 or 10, 2009 and returned 24 hours later.

Why would JP leave his boys, who could be questioned by Kirk, Jennifer, a social worker or law enforcement?

It is my opinion whatever he did while he had the rental car was something he didn't want the boys to see. Why else would he risk leaving the boys where they could blurt out information or be questioned?

Also, since he lost his job and no longer had Susan's income, why did he feel he had the money to rent a car when he could have waited for the van to be returned or borrowed a car from his mother or a friend, or asked someone to drive him wherever he needed to go!

*************
The Graves, that's what I thought but couldn't find it. Thanks!

I believe the older boy had ALREADY been questioned by LE, so he may have felt there was no greater risk in the boys spending time with the Graves family.

Agree that WHATEVER he did with the rental car was clearly something he felt was so urgent that it couldn't wait until he got his van back AND that couldn't be witnessed by the children or another driver.

JMHO - An innocent man whose wife had just disappeared (and a truly caring father) would not leave his young children's sides under those circumstances unless it was absolutely necessary - to physically search for her, or to be interviewed by law enforcement, etc. When you've suddenly lost a family member, you protect and/or reassure the ones who are left. You don't drop them off with someone else and disappear yourself for 24 hours.

 

[PickieChickie]

*************

JMHO - An innocent man whose wife had just disappeared (and a truly caring father) would not leave his young children's sides under those circumstances unless it was absolutely necessary - to physically search for her, or to be interviewed by law enforcement, etc. When you've suddenly lost a family member, you protect and/or reassure the ones who are left. You don't drop them off with someone else and disappear yourself for 24 hours.

Exactly! By now the boys know their mother is missing because they have spent every day from birth with her in their lives. Now JP leaves them with their aunt? If I were a little kid, I would have been afraid my daddy would disappear just like my mommy did! That must have traumatized the boys if they were aware of what was going on.

JP did say, when interviewed by Chris Jones AFTER returning from the rental car jaunt, when asked what he had told the boys, that he hadn't told them anything but that they had overheard conversations about their mother being missing.

I have to wonder what story he has told the boys and what upsetting and confusing conversations they have overheard since Susan's disappearance.

Someone stated they observed the five-year-old at a function in Puyallup, Washington, that he appeared to act a lot younger than his age. Well, it is a known fact that children will revert to younger behavior when traumatized by a move. So, the fact the boy's mother is missing, on top of the move, has certainly traumatized the children.

Then, to top it off, JP leaves the boys in Washington with his father making them worry again that he will disappear! It is obvious he didn't bring them because he would have had to have someone babysit them while he worked on the house and he didn't want people asking them questions or them blurting out information that he is trying to keep secret.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Yes Pickie... the whole situaton for these two little boys is just totally heartbreaking.

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Congratulations, kiki on your new granddaughter! _ :dance: _ Aren't they great? I was GrandmaTo4 in 2003 but I'm Grammy to 6 now. Grandkids are the only things nice about getting old, LOL.

(snip, bbm) Thanks grandma I happen to have one still very young child (pulling up the rear lol) and grandchildren :crazy: and yes certainly they, and the wisdom which is (thankfully, theoretically, hopefully, ideally, mercifully, occasionally!?!!) it's byproduct are the benefits which come w age lol... I agree being young is hugely overrated... lolol!! :dance: :biggrin: :bananapowerslide:

arrot:

 

[GrandmaTo4]

Not the store for the marshmallow toasting, fire starting torch. Those are from Walmart or Sears. I don't hope this is true, but it's not about marshmallows. Looks like he may have skipped a safety lesson, and without gloves the heat dried out his hands a lot. They say wear gloves, but some people have to learn everything the hard way.

Gee, you can't wear just any ol' gloves, grayjay. My best friend's husband is a retired steelworker. He built bridges. The gloves he had to wear were very thick and heavy. They're made from special leather, lined with some burn proof material and they go all the way up to the elbows.

Those red, chapped hands Josh had were not caused by any acetylene torch flame. They would have been 100 times worse and not so uniformly even. I've seen acetylene torch burns on my friend's husband and they're really nasty. Even a propane torch burn doesn't look like Josh's pinky-colored-burn. Also, hand cream doesn't make any gas flame burn feel or look any better.

When I first started reading about Josh's purchase of a torch, I assumed it was one the little torches all homeowners have around for plumbing jobs, etc. That's not the kind of torch they're talking about.

You're right grayjay! One would not buy a marshmallow melting torch at AirGas.

I still think the whole 'acetylene cutting torch' thing is a hoax.

 

[kiki the parrot]

ETA I'm having a tough time believing Josh would have risked being missing for such an inordinate length of time--on both occasions--had it not been necessary. This is what's led me to believe JP did in fact travel some distance, first in the van and subsequently in rental car.

Of course the length of his first absence may have been necessary to allow sufficient time for a Phantom Intruder to have come and gone w his wife... but it seems evident from the carpet steamer and fans, that he did not intend for her to be discovered "missing" during his absence and would have returned sooner if he possibly could have.

As for second trip I do agree JP would never have risked leaving his boys--in those first critical hours after learning of their mother's disappearance, and during which time they could have said something incriminating--were it not both a matter of extreme urgency and to which he couldn't afford to have witnesses accompany him.

Has JP ever provided any explanation for his sudden disappearance? Maybe he did, and I've forgotten but like Pickie said it is totally crazy... you've just learned your wife's missing--the mother of your children--and you leave them and take off... I mean c'mon who does this?!?? :shakehead:

The thing that worries me is that, other than attending his wife's vigil JP doesn't really seem overly concerned about public opinion or how bad any of this looks and I would go as far as to say has now written the book on how to look as guilty as #ell.

Refusing from early on to work w LE, packing up and fleeing WVC, and holing up w dad... either he is really confident... really foolish... or likely a little of both.


arrot:

 

[PickieChickie]

Has JP ever provided any explanation for his sudden disappearance?

Refusing from early on to work w LE, packing up and fleeing WVC, and holing up w dad... either he's really confident... really foolish... or likely a little of both.


arrot:

I do agree with Josh's decision to vacate the West Valley City house simply for the fact that the boys didn't need to be traumatized by the media constantly banging on their door, ringing the bell, sitting in vehicles in the street and ambushing them on shopping trips, etc.

I do think it is a good thing the boys are in a home located in a gated community which has provided them with a sense of security.

I don't, however, agree with the boys being in JP's custody or living with JP's father.

The best thing for the boys right now would to be with their grandparents, Chuck and Judy Cox, or with their aunt and uncle, Jennifer and Kirk Graves, in my opinion.

No, JP has NEVER given anyone an explanation of where he went during the 24 hours he drove the rental car several hundred miles.

 

[nitasch]

I don't think so but he could have been digging in the snow trying to find items he left somewhere in the woods that he didn't want to bring back with him in the van after the camping trip. I am certain he would have felt uncomfortable buying or borrowing gloves, digging tools, etc. after Susan's disappearance for fear of drawing suspicion to himself. Why would a person deliberately expose their hands to the cold to the point the skin was so damaged they had to keep applying lotion to them unless they felt they had no choice! Hands don't get windburn if they are kept inside jacket pockets or sleeves are pulled down over them. And why would he continue to expose them when the pain set in unless he absolutely felt he must continue what he was doing. The red hands are VERY suspicious to me!

I know this is OT for this particular thread, but it has come up over and over on many threads so I thought I would chime in since I am officially CAUGHT up with this case here.

I live part time in Utah, I have three people in my family that suffer through winter looking like their hands are burned. The cold, the lack of humidity and the dry heat in our houses and work places this time of year, just trash your skin.

I rarely NEED to use lotion on my hands except during the winter...my father on the other hand has to sleep with a heavy duty lotion (like silicone glove etc) and plastic gloves just to keep his hands from bleeding during the winter, same with my brother and one sister.

I am not defending JP...actually I have thought he was responsible from day one, I am only trying to put a little balance in the red hands. He very well COULD have been digging in the snow bare handed....but he may just suffer from the extremes up here in this wonderful (sarcastic) state.

 

[kiki the parrot]

There is no innocent or reasonable explanation for either his fleeing the home in which one last saw their wife alive and to which you have any expectation of her ever returning--nor from the community in which you need to be working w LE to bring her home safely.

The children need to be away from both JP and SP--and placed w the Coxes--permanently.

arrot:

 

[GrandmaTo4]

I gather that Josh purchased many things and well may have been a hoarder. For all the stuff he removed from the house and it looked like more of his than hers, I'm guessing he had lots of big ideas and plans and energy at least to buy things for the workshop and storage shed. When I have no energy the last thing I'm up to do is go buy more stuff.

Buying the stuff is pretty easy. It's the USING the stuff that takes the real energy and perseverance.

Notice, Josh wants to finish the deck and the basement before he rents the house. He's been living in the house five years with all those "things, tools and supplies" purchased already but the finishing has NOT been done.

Some people are compulsive buyers. Josh did a pretty good job of going bankrupt with $200,000 in debts ... much of it from credit card debt.

Just as he's good at buying tools, materials, etc., and not using them -
he's just as good at buying them but not paying for them. _ :loser: