weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

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Something I find very telling is the difference in the amonut of time spent by Dr. D versus ALV-12 versus 44 hours. Dr. D administered four tests in that time. What the heck did ALV do for all those 44 hours?? Counsel? Chit-chat? Coach? Review journals word by word?
honestly.
 
The camera washing doesn't have to be premeditation, there are so many other things that point to premeditation. We've talked about this before and I tend to agree that JA did not plan for the big bloody mess. Her idea of a murder scene more than likely came from some TV show or movie.
 
My Mother took 4 worthless tests about depression she was suffering before shooting herself in the heart with a 38 pistol.
After much trials and tribulation we found a compasionate well experienced Dr. at Jackson Hos that knew what she was doing. Her diagnosis was much different, in depth and 100% correct and She saved my Mother's life after numerous attempts of suicide. It takes the right person, allot of experience, allot of on the road knowledge and a little luck.

I'm sorry about your mother and I'm glad she was saved.

This post better explains to me your previous posts. It underscores the fact that there is a lot of sorrow in some of our histories and that comments made are often attached to something deeper.
 
And this is how it's going to be in the deliberation room. :D

They'll all agree on some things and vehemently disagree on other things like we're all doing.

The most important thing for the jurors is that they all agree (AS WE DO) that she thought it through even if it wasn't a well-thought out plan. In other words, PREMEDITATION - FIRST DEGREE.

Once they establish that within the first 15 minutes, they can relax and make the defense pay for killing good brain cells by taking a few days to debate whether she threw the camera in the washer on purpose or if it was an accident.

:floorlaugh:

it doesn't affect that conclusion, i agree. it's just something to toss around on this board. i'm HOPING deliberations go just like you say. i don't want a compromise verdict from this jury because the evidence is overwhelming that she planned it. there are many reasons why but for me the gas cans, and LYING about the third gas can, leaves no doubt about that.
 
Something I find very telling is the difference in the amonut of time spent by Dr. D versus ALV-12 versus 44 hours. Dr. D administered four tests in that time. What the heck did ALV do for all those 44 hours?? Counsel? Chit-chat? Coach? Review journals word by word?
honestly.

yes yes and yes and probably threw in some arts and craft time too.
 
I rather think the opposite is true. Dr. DeMarte appeared to me to be extremely intrigued with the fact that Jodi had 7 out of 10 elevations, where the norm may be 1 or 2. I do believe she gave this considerable thought but was requested to minimalize it to something realilty based that a jury could understand and accept. I would be very surprised if the good Doctor did not expend some personal time really pawing through the results searching for a better understanding of what the worthless tests really meant. Seems like a shrink's dream, something worthy of exploring and understanding.

And here I am in the middle of the two opinions, wondering why didn't JM ask Dr. D to expand on the 7 out of 10 elevations.

Even on the CA case, I felt the prosecutor had much more and just believed the jury would find her guilty and sentence her to death. I know the jury was wrong and all that. But still.

What stops the prosecutor from putting everything out there for the jury to see? I really believe they should have do that. Was it JM's decision or is it the judge? In any case, I don't think we have seen all the evidence.
 
the only reason they keep bringing up chris and sky is because of that one email exchange where they chide TA about how he's treating JA. and that was VERY early----jan, 2007, when they had just met her and JA was whining to sky about him not committing. like everyone else in that circle, it took them a bit to figure out who she really was. at that point, they didn't know.

it's been taken out of context only because it's a tidbit the DT thinks looks good for their murdering client. i was hoping we'd hear from the hughes in rebuttal, but maybe there's a good reason we won't.

I thought maybe they were trying some reverse psychology on JA to get her to move along and leave TA alone...

maybe not!
jmo
 
Can you just imagine standing in that house, with all that blood and TA's dead body and trying to process that? I do not know if JA is able to feel panic (maybe so, since it is about herself), but she must have been frantic.

Right. The panic she felt would be different from the panic you or I would feel if we had done something terribly wrong.

The panic she felt was purely self-driven. Her plan fell apart, she has a mess to deal with, she had to work harder to get it done, she doesn't know where anything is, she needs to get out, she doesn't want to get caught there and she doesn't want to have to talk to anyone before she can get herself together.

So you're absolutely right. In her mind, it was all about her "plight."
 
I suffer from complex PTSD which took me YEARS to find out and it came from taking those tests, whatever the tests were, it's been about 5 years since I took them. I STILL have not found anyone for therapy of any kind. The doctor who administered the tests was great but his kind of therapy did not revolve around extreme sex abuse things. Later I was referred to a psychiatrist who much to my shock was only about prescribing drugs...no therapy whatsoever and couldn't even tell me who does that kind of therapy. I've been to zillions of psychologists but for me, they were more like cheerleaders...saying things like "that was then, this is now" which doesn't do anything for me.

People think fixing the brain is like fixing a broken bone or an infected tooth.
It is very hard to find someone who understands the human brain and it's potential disorders. Doctors love giving tests so they can try to get you in a category, so they can try and fit you with this group of people but it solves nothing.
The only cure that saved my Mother's life was shock therapy. Very scary at first, thought her Doc was crazy but is changed her life for the good 10 years ago. Look into it. Truley amazing results and please do not give up! There is somebody out there that will help you. Good Luck!
 
I remember JA stating that she and Travis discussed different cameras and I think she said she looked some up online to help him make his choice. Not sure if it was in testimony or in interrogation, but I remember it.
In one of the early phone conversations she had with Detective Flores, he dropped the bomb that Travis's new camera was found in the washing machine. He asked her why she thought someone would do that. She went off on one of her long tangents (not directly answering the question) and mentioned (among other things)that Travis has consulted with her on the camera purchase. Of course she hadn't seen the camera in person because she hadn't been to Mesa since April. ;)
 
The law in general as far as court seems to lean toward the defense. I'm sure we all noticed how the judge allowed JW to do and say a lot that she didn't allow JM to see or do because this is the guilt phase. We will see more evidence in the penalty phase. I for one cannot wait for JM's closing.
 
I was lurking and had to log in to ask did she really take cash from him? She is really a piece of work. :facepalm:

Welcome to WS Beffie!

Glad you signed up and joined us!
 
People think fixing the brain is like fixing a broken bone or an infected tooth.
It is very hard to find someone who understands the human brain and it's potential disorders. Doctors love giving tests so they can try to get you in a category, so they can try and fit you with this group of people but it solves nothing.
The only cure that saved my Mother's life was shock therapy. Very scary at first, thought her Doc was crazy but is changed her life for the good 10 years ago. Look into it. Truley amazing results and please do not give up! There is somebody out there that will help you. Good Luck!

I would like to share my experience but not in this forum. Not sure what forum is appropriate.
 
ITA - her BPD may have helped her rationalize and obsess about killing TA, but it certainly can't explain all the "duping delight" expressions and her smirks of pride when listening to those sex tapes and the lack of affect throughout or the macabre interest she has in photos of her handiwork (both at interrogation and in the courtroom). She almost treats them like trophies. She's got a wide streak of psychopathy running through her, imo.

That is absolutely the truth and so very sad!
 
I'm sorry about your mother and I'm glad she was saved.

This post better explains to me your previous posts. It underscores the fact that there is a lot of sorrow in some of our histories and that comments made are often attached to something deeper.

This a a good post. Thank you.
 
Another poster (sorry, I forgot who! But you are super smart!) posited that perhaps the stolen engagement ring was not only the crux of the venomous emails from TA to JA in late May, but also the reason for which he allowed her to come back on June 4.......

To return the property (ring) she stole from him. Before he outted her as the liar and thief she was.....to everyone they knew!

To me, anyway, that theory makes all the pieces fit.

Nice thinking, poster! Sorry I spaced your name!

I don't know who that smart poster is either, but I do recall hearing that theory several times. There had to have been a precipitant event in my mind as well.

I've always been of the opinion that it must have been something that struck to close to the carefully-constructed image Jodi was trying to present. Narcissists can go into a rage, particularly when their artificial "self" comes under challenge or someone threatens to expose the facade as a lie. They will sometimes see that threat in life or death terms, given that they identify their physical existence with the false persona they project to others.

Travis might very well have threatened to reveal something about her to others involving theft of money, perhaps of property like the ring, or something else that we know nothing about and never will unless she admits it (and at this point, I won't believe anything she says without corroboration.) I could see that sending her into a blind narcissistic rage. She may well have been seething for some time, but those last phone calls on May 26th were the coup-de-gras in my view. He might have discovered something important missing -- it could have been the ring. He might have confronted her about it that night and told her they were through.

One thing though -- I don't think he knew she was coming. If the precipitant cause was the ring, she was certainly devious enough to consider bringing it with her and putting it somewhere in the house, so that in the event Travis had actually "outed" her as a thief, she would be able to point to its eventual discovery and say, "see, I didn't take it." That might have been another support for her "alibi" in her own mind -- she knew very well that his friends were going to point the finger straight at her, so every little bit of evidence she could use to dispel their stories about her would have been useful to her.

I can't see that she would have gone to all of the trouble of the rental car, gas cans, hair dye, no cell records in AZ, just to hope that Travis wouldn't mention to someone that she was coming. She could not have taken that chance given what she had in mind. She thought she would get away with killing him.

:cow:
 
Can anyone tell me, was there court today? MOO JA is going to death row. :woohoo: And much thanks to JM and this last psychologist witness for the State. She was awesome in making JW look like...well not prepared. Gawd I'm so sick of her (JW) nasally, whiny voice, like fingers on a blackboard but worse. Noticed how whenever they approach, Nurmi always walks up to the judge with shoulders stoop and head down. Not very confident looking at all. He looks like he doesn't want to be there at all or has nothing to offer. I'm sure the jurors aren't impressed with his nonprofessional demeanor. I wish he would do the button up on his jacket. :floorlaugh: All JMHO.

I've never seen a case like this were they cannot tell time. It's pathetic how they never start on time in the morning and after breaks. Just ridiculous. I think also there should be a cap on how much a witness such as ALV and whatshisface make. It pretty apparent they were doing it for the money, especially ALV with her comments and delaying answering questions or wanting to expand and also giving JM a hard time. They should not be allowed to make anymore that the prosecution's last witness. She was so much more informative, professional, honest and neutral in a lot less time. Enjoy the weekend folks, back at it on Tuesday. Go Juan!!

Don't worry - what goes around, comes around. I do have a question, though. Not that this is the case, necessarily, but if Nurmi suddenly realized, "Hey, Jodi is totally guilty," could he be excused from the case? I'm not a legal eagle, by any means, so TIA for any input. :websleuther:
 
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