weekend discussion: discuss the trial here #154

[deedee21]

IMO it has not been proven that JA died her hair on the way to Mesa. It has certainly been implied, but I personally don't see proof. I think the defense did a good job casting doubt by showing recent pix of JA with brown hair.

But I still don't question the planning and pre-meditation.

The one thing that's driving me crazy is not why she put the camera in the washer or whether TA knew she was coming, etc. The thing I want to know is what TA was referring to in his email/IM message about why he was so angry.

Why isn't this being shared in this trial??? It seems to be a pivotal point in the relationship, and perhaps the thing that prompted JA to kill him for fear he would expose her about it. What did she do? I wish this mystery would be revealed.

Jodi rented a car in Redding. The owner of the rental agency said she had blonde hair at the time she rented tue car.

 

[SCSam]

I thought maybe they were trying some reverse psychology on JA to get her to move along and leave TA alone...

maybe not!
jmo

I was part of a Twitter convo yesterday with Chris Hughes and others. I was remembering when he testified during an early misconduct trial and was cut off on a comment re something Nurmi had done/said to his wife. has summarized some of the comments from Chris yesterday .. makes for an interesting read and explains a lot. Just look her up on Twitter

 

[leebee52]

My mom's Doctor retired not long ago. Like JA who needed help prior to her final mistakes, you do as well. It seems to manifest itself slowly and grow until one reaches a breaking point. So it is very dangerous to let it go unfixed or unattended.

In my case, I've long overcome the breaking point. It's now more wanting a definitive understanding of what exactly happened to me.

 

[Sleuth5]

"She was found...hiding behind a Christmas tree."

Man, somebody must have been really bad that year.

 

[TexMex]

Moot point, but what car registration? Jodi did not own a car to register.

Not sure...I doubt the BMW was registered to her yet since it was damaged. Maybe it was from her car...I'm not sure when she gave it back to the bank. Maybe she took it out of the car and threw it in her bag when she cleaned it out prior to returning it..?

 

[zoozoo]

IMO it has not been proven that JA died her hair on the way to Mesa. It has certainly been implied, but I personally don't see proof. I think the defense did a good job casting doubt by showing recent pix of JA with brown hair.

But I still don't question the planning and pre-meditation.

The one thing that's driving me crazy is not why she put the camera in the washer or whether TA knew she was coming, etc. The thing I want to know is what TA was referring to in his email/IM message about why he was so angry.

Why isn't this being shared in this trial??? It seems to be a pivotal point in the relationship, and perhaps the thing that prompted JA to kill him for fear he would expose her about it. What did she do? I wish this mystery would be revealed.

BBM
I posted the following in another thread a before rebuttal started that addresses the bolded part above. Here is that post:

Have been rewatching Dworkin's testimony Day 13 (defense forensic computer guy): it seems the pictures defense admitted with JA and sis and JA and dog (to prove JA had brown hair in May 2008) only had "file" info, not "exif" data. The only way to confirm the pics were taken in May 2008 and not before is if there is "exif" data. The "file" data shows the pic was handled in May 2008 (could have been taken earlier and then sent/saved onto memory card in May 2008). IMO these photos were taken earlier and then loaded onto this memory card either so JA could easily upload them to my space , or the camera was new and she loaded photos from computer onto her new camera for easy access, to take to store to make print outs or something. I think JM's forensic computer guy in rebutal will show she is lying about when these photos were taken.

Evidence that supports these photos were taken before May 2008 (likely before May 2007) comes from JA's MySpace page. If you go to her page and look under photos, album called "my photos", you see a collection of photos loaded on February 27, 2007 and ONE OF THOSE PHOTOS is of JA in the same outfit, with the same dog, front of the same brick wall as IN THE PHOTO ENTERED INTO EVIDENCE AS #414 that the defense is claiming was taken in May 2008 showing JA with brown hair. Now, I guess she could have created this album in 2007 on MySpace and then added this one photo in May 2008? I am not sure if that is possible or not. I thought the date under the album reflected the last time the album was updated, but I am not sure. Maybe someone out there knows.

Also, additional information on the photos defense had admitted trying to prove JA had brown hair in May 2008: their exhibit 213 of JA with her sister with the red background (defense claims "file" data says this was taken in May 2008 but no "exif" data exisits to confirm that) looks like it is one in a series of photos one of which was posted on JA's MySpace page in the album called "Family" that was created on May 11, 2007. IMO the defense will be blown out of the water on this photo evidence. JM is going to show these photos with her brown hair were from 2007, not 2008.

At any rate, I think JM is on to this and will prove it in rebuttal. He is going to show that JA lied once again about when these photos with her brown hair were taken. IMO he will be able to prove these were likely taken long before May 2008. This will also bolster his claim that JA died her hair brown AFTER renting the car and BEFORE the nude photos at Travis's house on June 4th. This supports premeditation.

 

[MissJ]

My Mother took 4 worthless tests about depression she was suffering before shooting herself in the heart with a 38 pistol.
After much trials and tribulation we found a compasionate well experienced Dr. at Jackson Hos that knew what she was doing. Her diagnosis was much different, in depth and 100% correct and She saved my Mother's life after numerous attempts of suicide. It takes the right person, allot of experience, allot of on the road knowledge and a little luck.

Jumping off your post. Sometimes its not just experience. Psychiatry is kind of like the arts (as is medicine in general). Some have the talent for it and some are in it for the prestige or because Daddy said to do it or for the money. You know when you find the rare one who has the talent for it and the heart for it.
Its like coming home and feeling safe and as I write this I'm crying.:moo:

 

[SCSam]

When she's showing us how ridiculous she thinks a statement is, she waves her arms around so much I sometimes think she's going to take flight.

Obfuscation....

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

I hope it's o. k. if I say this - if not, please delete - but I think there's a good possibility that she did not do 44 hours of interview time with JA. Moo.

I agree. There is no way a normal human being could spend one half hour with Jodi and not recognize something is deeply wrong with her.

When Jodi was on the stand and there would be a close-up, I'd actually shrink back in horror.

As stubborn and annoying and frustrating as LaViolette was on the stand, I got the feeling she would be that way with any client she felt was deserving of protection. She was misguided here.

There is something in LaViolette that refuses to accept that anyone could ever fool her AND because she doesn't want to believe anyone would lie about something so devastating.

 

[leebee52]

JA is extreme but I have to say I have acquaintances that make me feel like they are stalking. People who can't take a hint no matter how big the hint is and just won't leave me alone. People who act completely helpless and think I exist to be their know everything do everything for them.

 

[SCSam]

I hope it's o. k. if I say this - if not, please delete - but I think there's a good possibility that she did not do 44 hours of interview time with JA. Moo.

Interesting... never considered that. Do you think she was padding her time or something else?

 

[raisincharlie]

snipped respecfully

Travis might very well have threatened to reveal something about her to others involving theft of money, perhaps of property like the ring, or something else that we know nothing about and never will unless she admits it (and at this point, I won't believe anything she says without corroboration.) I could see that sending her into a blind narcissistic rage. She may well have been seething for some time, but those last phone calls on May 26th were the coup-de-gras in my view. He might have discovered something important missing -- it could have been the ring. He might have confronted her about it that night and told her they were through.

One thing though -- I don't think he knew she was coming. If the precipitant cause was the ring, she was certainly devious enough to consider bringing it with her and putting it somewhere in the house, so that in the event Travis had actually "outed" her as a thief, she would be able to point to its eventual discovery and say, "see, I didn't take it." That might have been another support for her "alibi" in her own mind -- she knew very well that his friends were going to point the finger straight at her, so every little bit of evidence she could use to dispel their stories about her would have been useful to her.

I can't see that she would have gone to all of the trouble of the rental car, gas cans, hair dye, no cell records in AZ, just to hope that Travis wouldn't mention to someone that she was coming. She could not have taken that chance given what she had in mind. She thought she would get away with killing him.

:cow:

I have thought about this ring since Dr. DeMarte brought it up. I did not follow this case until it came to trial so the ring thing made no sense to me. However, I recalled reading something about a ring. In Detective Flores' report there is a summary of an interview with Enrique (roomate to Travis) who mentioned that Travis' CTR ring and watch were located on a counter in the kitchen. He noticed those items because he indicated he never saw Travis go anywhere without them. This caught my attention because I felt as though that was a bizarre place for a fella to leave his ring and watch unless perhaps they were either cleaning or cooking. I do not know what a CTR ring is, and while HLN wants to say it was an engagement ring, they also show a picture of Travis with an arrow pointing to a ring on his right hand. That ring is certainly not an engagement ring. But I am still puzzling over this ring thing.

 

[mollyf]

Now that I've read several different understandings of the tiger/bear juror question, it bothers me much less. Even Samuels said "Perhaps I should have re-administered that test." If a juror is having any trouble understanding that, I'm sure other jurors will get him squared away.

 

[leebee52]

Jumping off your post. Sometimes its not just experience. Psychiatry is kind of like the arts (as is medicine in general). Some have the talent for it and some are in it for the prestige or because Daddy said to do it or for the money. You know when you find the rare one who has the talent for it and the heart for it.
Its like coming home and feeling safe and as I write this I'm crying.:moo:

Might not understand this without my entire story but part of my problems came from an era of "bad psychiatry" which was told to me by a professional. The I'm OK You're OK BS era.

 

[Love Never Fails]

IMO it has not been proven that JA died her hair on the way to Mesa. It has certainly been implied, but I personally don't see proof. I think the defense did a good job casting doubt by showing recent pix of JA with brown hair.

But I still don't question the planning and pre-meditation.

The one thing that's driving me crazy is not why she put the camera in the washer or whether TA knew she was coming, etc. The thing I want to know is what TA was referring to in his email/IM message about why he was so angry.

Why isn't this being shared in this trial??? It seems to be a pivotal point in the relationship, and perhaps the thing that prompted JA to kill him for fear he would expose her about it. What did she do? I wish this mystery would be revealed.

Read a page or two above. I think maybe her stealing his ring is the answer.

 

[Truth Detector]

I have a question, hope someone is able to answer and I would like someone to pm that has really good knowledge about the case or who obtains information. Has Juan brought any evidence into court lately that were in bags? And please for who ever does the pm , I am looking for an honest opinion and not place the question all over the place unless it is verified. Thanks.

One assumes that you're referring to physical items collected and examined by LE, submitted by the prosecution for admission into evidence and then referenced by a witness during testimony.

Do I understand you correctly?

Define "lately".

 

[GoAskAllie]

The camera washing doesn't have to be premeditation, there are so many other things that point to premeditation. We've talked about this before and I tend to agree that JA did not plan for the big bloody mess. Her idea of a murder scene more than likely came from some TV show or movie.

Yes, premeditating the murder (staging the burglary in her grandparents' home, the roadtrip as a whole could be seen as a pretense to create an alibi, renting a car 90 miles from home, removing/tinkering with the license plates to avoid detection, dying her hair, borrowing/purchasing/filling up gas cans and turning off her cell phone to make it look as though she was never in Arizona. etc.) and destroying (or attempting to destroy) evidence (deleting the photos and putting the camera in the washer/tossing the knife & gun/cleaning up the scene) are different things. "Staging" a Calvin Klein-esque photo shoot for the purpose of getting Travis into the shower and distracting him before killing him suggests premeditation--even if she came up with that particular idea 10 minutes before she did it speaks to intent. Like you, I think she thought killing Travis in the shower would "contain" the crime scene and minimize the mess. Thinking that he'd go down without a fight was one of many mistakes she made that day and in the days and weeks that followed.

 

[Sleuth5]

Regarding the whole psychological aspect of this case, I'd just like to say that I wish the experts in this "community" could get their chite together. They're obviously so far lost up their azzez that they cannot come to agreement on any assessments they make. There are counters to everything they ascertain. Score cards and silly charts abound. And none of them stick to any protocol. If I were a juror here, I would write them all off. I am a non expert. I am NOT an expert. I have no educational background or experience (apart from a personal one) to speak of...And I know that there is something seriously wrong with JA. My googling about Sociopaths leaves me with a certainty that she is one beyond what any "expert" on the stand is able to convince me as otherwise. They can stick any number of alphabetic descriptors to her but she's a psycho to the rest of us (normal but not necessary expert folk)!

moo

I can agree with some of this, for sure. Mostly, I'm convinced that sometimes things simply are what they appear to be.

This woman cut the throat of a living person from ear to ear down to the spine. That is all I need to know to convince me that something is profoundly wrong. I'm perfectly willing to hear the experts argue over what it is, as I cannot help but attempt to make sense of the nonsensical.

:cow:

 

[SCSam]

Jumping off your post. Sometimes its not just experience. Psychiatry is kind of like the arts (as is medicine in general). Some have the talent for it and some are in it for the prestige or because Daddy said to do it or for the money. You know when you find the rare one who has the talent for it and the heart for it.
Its like coming home and feeling safe and as I write this I'm crying.:moo:

You are soooo right. Once saw a psych for depression who had MANY years' experience.. he suggested that I (and I do NOT mean to offend anyone here) should pray more and get closer to God, offered a book I could buy to read. Never went back...

 

[leebee52]

If the ring WAS an engagement ring, I can just imagine JA wearing it and going around telling people she was engaged to Travis.