Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[DeDee]

Tadpole12.
I'm not certain by what you mean: transit zone?

<RSBM> I reckon we are looking at a prior staging dumped into the wine-cellar, a pragmatic move, in an attempt to bolster the abduction scenario?

<RSBM>

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"dumped", UK? Can we please show a little more respect for JonBenet rather than stating that her tiny body was "dumped into the wine cellar"? It made me flinch to read that phrase posted.

 

[mrseeker]

"dumped", UK? Can we please show a little more respect for JonBenet rather than stating that her tiny body was "dumped into the wine cellar"? It made me flinch to read that phrase posted.

That's the common term. You dump a body. UK didn't make that up. Guess you flinch a lot when you read the news. It's pretty clear her killer, most likely mom, treated her body with no respect. Hard to clean that up for delicate ears.

 

[DeDee]

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but an arrest has been made. Gary Howard Oliva is a known pedophile and apparently there is good reason to suspect him. I'm not of the opinion that an outsider did it, but figured I'd clue you all in if you hadn't already known

I purchased one of the news rags last week. It had two colorful pages about the current arrest of Gary Oliva. He possesses quite the rap sheet that mostly are related or attempted molestation charges. He has registered more than once as a SO. The IP address he used is in the block of 5300 Western Blvd., Boulder, CO 80301. Their version of the arrest was that GO, 52, was found to be homeless near a large tree.

There is an AA location listed at:
5375 Western Avenue
Suite F
Boulder, Colorado 80301
http://bouldereyeopeners.com/contact.html


JUNE 23, 2016
"Following his most recent arrest, Oliva was charged Tuesday with two counts of attempted sexual exploitation of a child and one count of sexual exploitation of a child, KMGH reported.

Olivia allegedly downloaded 22 sexually explicit images of children less than 10 years of age."
http://fox2now.com/2016/06/23/suspect-in-death-of-jonbenet-ramsey-arrested-on-child-porn-charges/

May 5, 2013 Mugshot
http://www.bustedoffenders.com/colorado/boulder/sex-offenders/gary-howard-olivia/x002453264

 

[mrseeker]

Tadpole12.
I'm not certain by what you mean: transit zone?

What I reckon is there was a last minute attempt at rearranging a prior staging, with the wine-cellar becoming defacto evidence that JonBenet was kidnapped, i.e. she is not in her bedroom?

This is where the time element surfaces, i.e. with four hours one would expect better staging than that supplied.

Another aspect that I think supports this view is the garrote/ligature device, now ask yourself honestly where in a kidnapping could such a device be used?

Not at all I think. I reckon we are looking at a prior staging dumped into the wine-cellar, a pragmatic move, in an attempt to bolster the abduction scenario?

The garrote/ligature device is simply out of place, it might not even be staging, as Kolar suggests it was part of the killers intention, he/she did it all, it was planned and it worked!

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A kidnapper for ransom or a kidnapping sexual predator would have removed a live and ambulatory child from the house or swooped her up and carried her out. Then he could do what he wanted without fear of interruption or detection. A note would have been pre-written and brief. The amount of money would be a million or two million dollars and would probably be two or three sentences at best. This was all staging. The plan, IMHO, was to get the father out of the house, so the mother could "dump" the body on the side of the road somewhere. Hope nobody flinched whilst driving when I said that. The note was for John's benefit but because it was so silly he did not fall for it. If both John and Patsy had done this, the body would have been removed from the house before calling the police.

 

[DeDee]

That's the common term. You dump a body. UK didn't make that up. Guess you flinch a lot when you read the news. It's pretty clear her killer, most likely mom, treated her body with no respect. Hard to clean that up for delicate ears.

JonBenet was placed in the cellar of the basement. FACT.

I do not appreciate being patronized. Do not assume how I react to news. Just because someone else disrespected JonBenet does NOT give us the same right.

Are you aware that Websleuths was born from the murder of JonBenet Ramsey? I do not think Tricia Griffith would appreciate the wording either, mrseeker.

 

[mrseeker]

JonBenet was placed in the cellar of the basement. FACT.

I do not appreciate being patronized. Do not assume how I react to news. Just because someone else disrespected JonBenet does NOT give us the same right.



Are you aware that Websleuths was born from the murder of JonBenet Ramsey? I do not think Tricia Griffith would appreciate the wording either, mrseeker.

Come on we know why you said that to UK. She was murdered and dumped in the basement. I guess I could say gently placed. But she was dumped by the killer. Your intent was not to show respect for JonBenet but to embarrass a poster for an insignificant issue. Why did't you say you disagree with him? He said nothing disrespectful. Killers dump bodies. That is the correct word.

 

[BoldBear]

We can't be any more disrespectful of JB's privacy than talking about her autopsy and her bathroom habits over and over again. DeDee is asking for a little respect when talking about a deceased little girl. When you say she was dumped, it makes JB a piece of meat and doesn't depict her as someone who was alive. It's irreverent. Maybe you could change the way things are phrased a little to keep the peace.

 

[BoldBear]

Another aspect that I think supports this view is the garrote/ligature device, now ask yourself honestly where in a kidnapping could such a device be used?.

This is a really good question. I was thinking about it earlier tonight so it jumped out off the page when I read it. You have no idea how much the garrotte tells us about the killer. I'll never be able to say because it points the finger at someone and that's against the rules, but this is a good question.

 

[DeDee]

We can't be any more disrespectful of JB's privacy than talking about her autopsy and her bathroom habits over and over again. DeDee is asking for a little respect when talking about a deceased little girl. When you say she was dumped, it makes JB a piece of meat and doesn't depict her as someone who was alive. It's irreverent. Maybe you could change the way things are phrased a little to keep the peace.

Thank you for understanding BoldBear. I have been on the JonBenet forum for years, even reading here before joining WS. I stayed for a week at the foot of the Flatirons at Chautauqua Park when I traveled to Boulder and drove past all of the major players homes, businesses and dined at Pasta Jay's last April. I've read all of the books that I could find about this child's murder. The Ramsey's home is/was huge as the front of it is deceiving. I drove through the alleyway where the garage and upstairs garage apartments are located. No way did JF arrive in that alleyway when he claimed. JMHO JF is the only one who parked in the alleyway entrance. #FatCats

UKGuy knows that I would never attempt to embarrass him in any way whatsoever. We may not interpret the facts of this case in the same way; however, I respect UKGuy's opinions as he is quite knowledgeable about the case.

That garotte is mind blowing. Who would "stage" a garotte on a little girl's neck? It was done with a specific purpose and with a specific intention. I'll never believe that a 9yo could do such a thing unless it had already been done to them in the past. I do believe that it had been. JMHO

 

[AndHence]

What does everyone here think of DocG's theory? When I first started reading about the case his theory seemed the most attractive but I'm essentially a RDI generalist who remains uncommitted to any particular family member(s).

 

[BoldBear]

DocG has a convincing argument, but for me the pieces of his puzzle are not complete. He is, however, continuously updating his theory so it's good to follow.

 

[mrseeker]

Ty for the heads up, DK.

CO made the 'Globe'
July 01, 2016
Justice For Jonbenet!
http://www.globemagazine.com/

"A SICKO suspect in little beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey's unsolved murder has been busted on a child porn charge - and the arrest may finally solve the tragic cold case, law enforcement sources say!
Skid-row squatter and convicted sex offender gary Howard Oliva, 52, who was in the cops' crosshairs after Jonbenet's Dec. 26, 1996 slaying ....."

Isn't one of the claims, that the Ramsey's are innocent, because they found DNA of a male? If that is the smoking gun, it seems it either matches this man or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then he is innocent, or the DNA is meaningless.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

What does everyone here think of DocG's theory? When I first started reading about the case his theory seemed the most attractive but I'm essentially a RDI generalist who remains uncommitted to any particular family member(s).

It sounds probable to me but my basic problem with his theory is J not being able to prevent or convince P not calling police...

 

[BBB167893]

Isn't one of the claims, that the Ramsey's are innocent, because they found DNA of a male? If that is the smoking gun, it seems it either matches this man or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then he is innocent, or the DNA is meaningless.

Hi, mrseeker. I haven't welcomed you up to now because I've been away. Back in 2002, it was publicly announced that this Oliva's DNA was not a match. The only way around that is if, as you say, the DNA is meaningless. I've said for a long time that it is. Thus, you're left with the other evidence. And where does that lead?

 

[mrseeker]

It sounds probable to me but my basic problem with his theory is J not being able to prevent or convince P not calling police...

Isn't his theory John did it but Patsy called the police foiling his plan? I think it was just the opposite. Patsy did it and John started searching and told her to call the Police, foiling her plan. If John had done it, I think the body would not be in the house. Patsy needed to get John away, heading for the bank, so she could get the body to the car and drive off without detection. I think he made her call the police and then he took a look at the note. He probably saw Patsy all over that note. He might have confronted her, and based on what she said, he decided to go along with the coverup. Just my opinion. A man could easily move the body, but Patsy would probably struggle so she needed him out of the house. The note never mentions Patsy. I think, because patsy wrote it and its more intended to get him to leave. Get some sleep and go to the bank...hmmm

 

[mrseeker]

Hi, mrseeker. I haven't welcomed you up to now because I've been away. Back in 2002, it was publicly announced that this Oliva's DNA was not a match. The only way around that is if, as you say, the DNA is meaningless. I've said for a long time that it is. Thus, you're left with the other evidence. And where does that lead?

Hi SuperDave. I just started here. I agree. I think the DNA is probably not related to the murder. I do not trust the vindication of Patsy by the DA based on this "new evidence." I just can't get past that note. Patsy wrote it.

 

[neesaki]

Ty for the heads up, DK.

CO made the 'Globe'
July 01, 2016
Justice For Jonbenet!
http://www.globemagazine.com/

"A SICKO suspect in little beauty queen JonBenet Ramsey's unsolved murder has been busted on a child porn charge - and the arrest may finally solve the tragic cold case, law enforcement sources say!
Skid-row squatter and convicted sex offender gary Howard Oliva, 52, who was in the cops' crosshairs after Jonbenet's Dec. 26, 1996 slaying ....."

I read that article, supposedly part of a child pedo ring, they believe there was more than one person involved in her death.

 

[singularity]

On the subject of DocG's theory, on its razor thin surface its certainly possible(JDI), but his house of cards comes crumbling down when he has to say John would "gaslight": Patsy to fill all the holes in his theory. It cant be taken seriously. Years ago his theory was more basic but I assume once people started seeing the inconsistencies, he came up with "gaslighting" to explain it all away. Any gaslighting theory is laughable.

The notion that Patsy cant be involved because she called 911 is also laughable and is when his theory instantly falls apart. Not gonna go on about it because he's not here but he has a blog if anyone wants to read about Patsy getting a hundred free passes by DocG for everything she did because John figured out how to gaslight her.

 

[UKGuy]

On the subject of DocG's theory, on its razor thin surface its certainly possible(JDI), but his house of cards comes crumbling down when he has to say John would "gaslight": Patsy to fill all the holes in his theory. It cant be taken seriously. Years ago his theory was more basic but I assume once people started seeing the inconsistencies, he came up with "gaslighting" to explain it all away. Any gaslighting theory is laughable.

The notion that Patsy cant be involved because she called 911 is also laughable and is when his theory instantly falls apart. Not gonna go on about it because he's not here but he has a blog if anyone wants to read about Patsy getting a hundred free passes by DocG for everything she did because John figured out how to gaslight her.

singularity,
DocG's theory is nonsense on stilts that requires JR to be a mind reader. Years ago most RDI theories had an equal status, now those with an interest recognize some theories can be discarded because they do not stand up along side the evidence.

What does DocG's theory say about the GJ accusing the parents of being accessories to a homicide, and they got to see the evidence neither DocG or the rest of us ever saw.

.

 

[Deadhead_Kay]

I doubt this has any true basis, but it caught my interest and made me think of this case. I had Criminal Minds playing in the background, and one of the agents had said "Parents tend to blame each other and pull away, but you two are sticking together and backing each other up." In relation to the murder of their child. I don't know, it got my attention. I want to research this theory just for personal use, but it does make me wonder about JR and PR's relationship, especially immediately after the murder.