Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[pigskinmusic]

I don't rule JR out either. One thing, though I really can't decide which RDI, I don't feel they acted together as far as the actual killing. They definitely acted together in the staging and coverup, but the head bash (which I believe was done first) was done by ONE R, alone.
BTW, Gaia, you have a very good grasp of the situation between the Rs. JR has always seemed cold and calculating- I like to call him reptilian.

Why would one of the R's bash their daughters head in?????

 

[UKGuy]

Why would one of the R's bash their daughters head in?????

pigskinmusic,
Either to stage a homicide or intentionally kill their daughter, the extent of the violence tells you it was intended, someone deliberately killed JonBenet. The impact of head blow was so severe that it is never seen in domestic accidents, it normally occurs in vehicle accidents or falls from great heights.

 

[DeeDee249]

Why would one of the R's bash their daughters head in?????

There are several ways this may have happened: She could have been bashed with the flashlight to silence her when she screamed. A neighbor heard a scream around the time she died; or she was slammed into a hard surface, maybe like a tub or sink edge or faucet. So it may have been accidental.
I see you are a new poster- welcome. I don't know how much reading you have done so far, but there is a thread suggesting several books with lots of background and information on the case, as well as sites like www.acandyrose.com

 

[zerosbear]

I'm new here...I didn't pay much attention to the JonBent case when it first happened....I did listen to the news reports, my first thought was the parents did it...After reading Perfect Murder, Perfect Town and Who Killed JonBenet Ramsey I am convinced the parents are guilty...

 

[rashomon]

pigskinmusic,
Either to stage a homicide or intentionally kill their daughter, the extent of the violence tells you it was intended, someone deliberately killed JonBenet. The impact of head blow was so severe that it is never seen in domestic accidents, it normally occurs in vehicle accidents or falls from great heights.

A blow delivered in a blind rage can also be very severe, but this doesn't mean the person delivering the blow intended to kill JonBenet.
Aside from that, how much 'force' does it take to crack the skull of a tiny six-year-old ??

 

[trixie]

I don't rule JR out either. One thing, though I really can't decide which RDI, I don't feel they acted together as far as the actual killing. They definitely acted together in the staging and coverup, but the head bash (which I believe was done first) was done by ONE R, alone.
BTW, Gaia, you have a very good grasp of the situation between the Rs. JR has always seemed cold and calculating- I like to call him reptilian.

I really hadn't considered JR as being the killer until I read Patsys headstone and he had put the word "faithfulness" on it. I doubt he was talking about infidelity. Made me start to rethink some things.

 

[trixie]

I have a question. Obviously I am familiar with JonBenet and have weeded through some info but there is SO much is gets overwhelming. I have always had the feeling John killed JonBenet. From what I understand the household was ran around John and his emotional whims. Patsy seems to be the dutiful wife who was trying to portray the image of the all american happy family. She strikes me as someone VERY concerned and preoccupied with how they are viewed in society and would go to many lengths to keep that image. The Ramsey marriage seemed to be one of convenience. A business relationship. They tolerated eachother, they needed eachother for different reasons; Patsy needed John's financial support, John needed Patsy to raise the kids, run the household, and organize they social life. I think espeically Patsy was dependent on John. She needed his financial support and she was used to living a certain lifestyle and maintaining a certain societal standing and that was very important to her.
I have always entertained the option that John killed JonBenet in a fit of anger. John strikes me as a very stoic and even emotionally detached person so it would not be hard for him to grit his teeth and do what he had to do to make sure this did not ruin his life. Patsy, terrified of losing her husband and terrified of what people would think if they found out went to great lengths to cover-up what happened. She wrote the ransom note, called 911, stuck to the story of the intruder, bore the brunt of speculation from the media and public that SHE was the killer and ultimately stood by her husbands side out of fear and selfishness.
And John Ramsey let her. I think he knew well what he was doing. By stepping back and letting Patsy make the 911 call and write the RN he knew the speculation would fall on her and not him. Like I said before I think their marriage was one of convenience and ultimately John would survive just fine without Patsy and was willing to let her take the fall in order to save himself. He was a wealthy man and if she went to prison he would have no problem finding another wife.

Finally - my question to you guys who have undoubtedly researched the evidence, the interviews, the actions of the Ramsey much more than I is, why do so many people count John out as the murderer? What has he said, done, or how has he acted that leads people to believe his innocence? Please do not take this as a challenge - it's not. I am genuinely curious because I believe there must be legitimate, logical reasons why John is not widely considered a suspect.

Thanks for reading.

If I remember correctly LE suspected John at first until the forensic evidence started coming in. No semen. The fibers entertwined in the garrote that matched Patsys sweater and things like that. The ransom note sounds just like Patsy. The evidence pointed squarely to Patsy and the cover-up pointed directly to JR's involvement.

 

[trixie]

I don't rule him out at all! He was the one with the power, not Patsy! Since I was not there to eyewitness, I will remain a RDI for life as after witnessing both of their behavior, neither one is innocent.

Hi RR! I'm with you. Gosh you know the only theory I have heard that seems to fit all the evidence is one that surfaced long long ago and I keep going back to that. John was molesting JBR and Patsy walked in on it and swung at JR and hit JBR. That is the only theory that totally implicates both of them and gives them both something to lose, thus sticking together would make sense. But I just have this problem believing JR was molesting JBR. I don't know why I can't believe that.

 

[JMO8778]

Hi RR! I'm with you. Gosh you know the only theory I have heard that seems to fit all the evidence is one that surfaced long long ago and I keep going back to that. John was molesting JBR and Patsy walked in on it and swung at JR and hit JBR.

that's what I think happened,only she didn't swing at JR...she swung at JB on purpose.
I don't think Patsy was one to let anyone usurp her,and JB was no exception.Remember that she said JB was her 'best friend'.And even BF's can get caught in the crossfire! SD here called it the Snow White Syndrome.I think it fits well.

That is the only theory that totally implicates both of them and gives them both something to lose, thus sticking together would make sense. But I just have this problem believing JR was molesting JBR. I don't know why I can't believe that.

he could have just been a situational abuser;it's been discussed here b/f,and it makes sense to me.UK has made some excellent points on the evidence,and it all leads me to believe the potty theory was just a cover story for what really happened,that couldn't be revealed.Plus throwing all the blame Patsy's way,I think he was trying to make her crack.
IMO,I think one of them inflicted the head injury,and the other made sure she was dead w/ the garrote.I'm not so sure that was Patsy though.Thomas called the head injury an accident,but that it turned into murder when the garotte was applied.But by putting it all squarely on Patsy,he could have been hoping the public revelation of that would put a lot of pressure on her,and maybe more.
I think JR's behavior was far too suspect to think he was only in on the cover up.

 

[BBB167893]

SD here called it the Snow White Syndrome.I think it fits well.

Remember what the Wicked Queen did when she found out she wasn't the fairest in the land anymore?

 

[coloradokares]

Remember what the Wicked Queen did when she found out she wasn't the fairest in the land anymore?

And that should leave us needing a moment of silence. That was indeed profound.

 

[JMO8778]

I don't think Patsy was even no. 968!

 

[JMO8778]

lol, I just love your profile pic,trixie...but I'm sure you're much prettier than that!

 

[UKGuy]

Hi RR! I'm with you. Gosh you know the only theory I have heard that seems to fit all the evidence is one that surfaced long long ago and I keep going back to that. John was molesting JBR and Patsy walked in on it and swung at JR and hit JBR. That is the only theory that totally implicates both of them and gives them both something to lose, thus sticking together would make sense. But I just have this problem believing JR was molesting JBR. I don't know why I can't believe that.

trixie,
Not quite, since the evidence that links them appears separated not only in time but by knowledge of prior events.

John's fiber evidence links him to the wipe down and redressing of JonBenet, Patsy would never ever have dressed JonBenet in size-12's when there are size-6's in the same room she says she fetched the longjohns from, so why not select a pair of pants then? Because it is likely John that did this phase of the staging, then presented JonBenet to Patsy as having some accident? If Patsy went to hit John missed and whacked JonBenet, then given the circumstances she not only has a defense, why does she want John in her life at all, why collude in a staging that benefits only him, why not tell the truth and sue for divorce etc?

Patsy's fiber evidence links her to a later phase of the staging, one that is more surface led, e.g. garrote, wrist restraints, duct-tape, possibly the assymetric pigtails, all achievable while JonBenet is still wrapped in a blanket. All indicating a major change of planning, and if Patsy knew about the size-12's, and that they had been removed, why tell the investigators she placed the packet of size-12's into JonBenet's panty drawer, only then to be told there were none discovered therein, only size-6's! Patsy may not have had John's business acumen, but I would never have marked her up as that dumb!

If Patsy had killed JonBenet you should expect the phases of staging to have been reversed, and with no size-12's anywhere to be seen?


The other red flags are the acute and chronic sexual injuries sustained by JonBenet. The fact that these are hidden from view, when the staging is intended to suggest an intruder was responsable, must call into question why Patsy bothered with her staging since the size-12's and the hidden sexual assault contradict this, not unless she never knew about it, at that point?

But I just have this problem believing JR was molesting JBR. I don't know why I can't believe that.

Well I guess thats why he is still walking about and Patsy and JonBenet are dead and buried, victims of circumstance?

 

[trixie]

trixie,
Not quite, since the evidence that links them appears separated not only in time but by knowledge of prior events.

John's fiber evidence links him to the wipe down and redressing of JonBenet, Patsy would never ever have dressed JonBenet in size-12's when there are size-6's in the same room she says she fetched the longjohns from, so why not select a pair of pants then? Because it is likely John that did this phase of the staging, then presented JonBenet to Patsy as having some accident? If Patsy went to hit John missed and whacked JonBenet, then given the circumstances she not only has a defense, why does she want John in her life at all, why collude in a staging that benefits only him, why not tell the truth and sue for divorce etc?

Patsy's fiber evidence links her to a later phase of the staging, one that is more surface led, e.g. garrote, wrist restraints, duct-tape, possibly the assymetric pigtails, all achievable while JonBenet is still wrapped in a blanket. All indicating a major change of planning, and if Patsy knew about the size-12's, and that they had been removed, why tell the investigators she placed the packet of size-12's into JonBenet's panty drawer, only then to be told there were none discovered therein, only size-6's! Patsy may not have had John's business acumen, but I would never have marked her up as that dumb!

If Patsy had killed JonBenet you should expect the phases of staging to have been reversed, and with no size-12's anywhere to be seen?


The other red flags are the acute and chronic sexual injuries sustained by JonBenet. The fact that these are hidden from view, when the staging is intended to suggest an intruder was responsable, must call into question why Patsy bothered with her staging since the size-12's and the hidden sexual assault contradict this, not unless she never knew about it, at that point?


Well I guess thats why he is still walking about and Patsy and JonBenet are dead and buried, victims of circumstance?

Do you believe it was JR that was molesting JB?

 

[sharkeyes]

But I just have this problem believing JR was molesting JBR. I don't know why I can't believe that.

I'm with you on that....and I get frustrated with myself because I think.."he does not strike me as the type..." and then I give myself a reality check - there is no type, no "look", no standard, no class distinction that screams "molester" - a common denominator is that it's usually the one least suspected.

 

[BBB167893]

For me to believe the examination results on the live body are legit, I have to believe that the autopsy results on the dead body are lies.

 

[UKGuy]

I'm with you on that....and I get frustrated with myself because I think.."he does not strike me as the type..." and then I give myself a reality check - there is no type, no "look", no standard, no class distinction that screams "molester" - a common denominator is that it's usually the one least suspected.

sharkeyes,
Sure there is no common type. Just take a look at the forensic evidence, the prior sexual assault, JonBenet's enlarged hymen, her pageant roles, the distinct lack of parental guidance e.g. her father funds her pageant activities. Then consider JonBenet's acute sexual assault, however contrived, no intruder needs to conceal such an injury!

Patently you are looking at a sexual abuse case not an intruder homicide!

 

[sharkeyes]

For me to believe the examination results on the live body are legit, I have to believe that the autopsy results on the dead body are lies.

Damn, you're good.....

I agree - something is not right, things don't add up, don't jive. Like telephone and cell phone records that are "not available" and a 911 call on 12/23 that is dismissed..., and a pediatrician who treats a 5/6 year old for vaginitis on several occasions yet does not question/report a possible case of abuse, or at the very least note in the childs medical record that he has asked the child about it or discussed it with/counseled the parents....maybe I'm just burned out and read too much into things.

Do you think JR was molesting JBR?

 

[trixie]

For me to believe the examination results on the live body are legit, I have to believe that the autopsy results on the dead body are lies.

What does this mean?