Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[sharkeyes]

For me to believe the examination results on the live body are legit, I have to believe that the autopsy results on the dead body are lies.

Trixie - I believe this refers to the blatant contradiction between what JBRs pediatrician stated (he examined her while she was alive at least 27 times, see link) and what others consider to be evidence of chronic (long standing) injury to the area (based on autopsy) -- see links below.

I am not speaking for SD here - just giving you the way I understand it.

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0215jon4.htm

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/famous/ramsey/allegations_4b.html

http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0715jons.htm

 

[JMO8778]

Damn, you're good.....

I agree - something is not right, things don't add up, don't jive. Like telephone and cell phone records that are "not available" and a 911 call on 12/23 that is dismissed..., and a pediatrician who treats a 5/6 year old for vaginitis on several occasions yet does not question/report a possible case of abuse, or at the very least note in the childs medical record that he has asked the child about it or discussed it with/counseled the parents....maybe I'm just burned out and read too much into things.

Do you think JR was molesting JBR?

on that note...I believe that JB died fairly early on the evening of the 25th...say 11 pm or so,perhaps even sooner.That's why it appears JR had no problem getting in touch with anyone he needed ...they hadn't gone to bed yet.And if we had access to the phone records,it would be pretty easy to estimate her TOD.
Anyway,in thinking about it...who's to say Dr Beuf *didn't come over and examine JB,shortly after the head blow? Not wanting to take her to ER,he could have examined her and told them it was too late..nothing could be done for her.Or maybe that was a decision they came to on their own..who knows.I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility.
Deedee..since you're knowledgeable about rigor and TOD issues..do you think Dr Spitz was right when he said TOD was at or before 1am? Could it have been a lot sooner? If JR did indeed put her body in the walk-in fridge,would that alter her TOD significantly? If she was placed in the same position there as in the WC,is it possible she was moved? thx for any thoughts.

 

[UKGuy]

Do you believe it was JR that was molesting JB?

trixie,
Thats where the evidence points. Nearly every avenue of investigation was covered by the crime-scene staging including JonBenet's acute sexual assault, except that no intruder needs to hide any assault, nor redress the victim, not unless the intruder is a visiting relative?

Further investigation yields a majority opinion that JonBenet had been chronically molested, so if you are a molesting parent and want a crime-scene to explain this away along with your wife's crime, then an intruder sexual assault is just the ticket, except this is not what was served up.

So Mommy killed JonBenet because Poppa was molesting her or Poppa flaked out when JonBenet would not play ball, either way JonBenet was being molested, and the forensic evidence backs that up!

 

[UKGuy]

on that note...I believe that JB died fairly early on the evening of the 25th...say 11 pm or so,perhaps even sooner.That's why it appears JR had no problem getting in touch with anyone he needed ...they hadn't gone to bed yet.And if we had access to the phone records,it would be pretty easy to estimate her TOD.
Anyway,in thinking about it...who's to say Dr Beuf *didn't come over and examine JB,shortly after the head blow? Not wanting to take her to ER,he could have examined her and told them it was too late..nothing could be done for her.Or maybe that was a decision they came to on their own..who knows.I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility.
Deedee..since you're knowledgeable about rigor and TOD issues..do you think Dr Spitz was right when he said TOD was at or before 1am? Could it have been a lot sooner? If JR did indeed put her body in the walk-in fridge,would that alter her TOD significantly? If she was placed in the same position there as in the WC,is it possible she was moved? thx for any thoughts.

JMO8778,
Unless JonBenet was snacking pineapple pretty late, the fact that the residue was recovered from her intestine not fully digested tells you, she was probably killed approx 1-hour after eating the pineapple. So home about 10 pm, snack about 10-30 pm, finish that maybe 11 or 11-30 pm, killed anytime after this point?

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,
Unless JonBenet was snacking pineapple pretty late, the fact that the residue was recovered from her intestine not fully digested tells you, she was probably killed approx 1-hour after eating the pineapple. So home about 10 pm, snack about 10-30 pm, finish that maybe 11 or 11-30 pm, killed anytime after this point?

I thought all estimates were she ate the pineapple around 2 hrs before death? remember it wasn't actually in her stomach,it was in the first part of her duodenum.

 

[DeeDee249]

Dr. Cyril Wecht estimates TOD around midnight-1am. this is because of the location of the pineapple and it's condition; but also based on the stage of rigor mortis she was in when found.

Of course, Coroner Meyer SHOULD have given a TOD in his report. Instead, he inexplicably lists the time she was FOUND. Anyone know why he would do this? If Wecht can do it based on the same information we have, Meyer should have done it, too. Of course, Meyer was lax and sloppy in his first encounter with the corpse...he did not follow two very basic and important procedures. First, he should have drawn some of the vitreous fluid from the eye to test potassium levels and second, he should have taken a core body temperature with a liver stab thermometer. He did neither. He spent less than 20 minutes with the body, did not note rigor mortis degrees at that time (though he did note them at autopsy, 12 hours later- and 36 hours after her death.) Basically all he did was pronounce her dead. I have never seen anyone (on either side) question Meyer on his failure to perform these two simple tests.

 

[UKGuy]

I thought all estimates were she ate the pineapple around 2 hrs before death? remember it wasn't actually in her stomach,it was in the first part of her duodenum.

JMO8778,
I reckon 2-hours is the maximum and 1-hour the minimum. The reason being that pineapple is largely composed of fluid, so takes little time to digest and move through to the intestine.

.

 

[UKGuy]

Dr. Cyril Wecht estimates TOD around midnight-1am. this is because of the location of the pineapple and it's condition; but also based on the stage of rigor mortis she was in when found.

Of course, Coroner Meyer SHOULD have given a TOD in his report. Instead, he inexplicably lists the time she was FOUND. Anyone know why he would do this? If Wecht can do it based on the same information we have, Meyer should have done it, too. Of course, Meyer was lax and sloppy in his first encounter with the corpse...he did not follow two very basic and important procedures. First, he should have drawn some of the vitreous fluid from the eye to test potassium levels and second, he should have taken a core body temperature with a liver stab thermometer. He did neither. He spent less than 20 minutes with the body, did not note rigor mortis degrees at that time (though he did note them at autopsy, 12 hours later- and 36 hours after her death.) Basically all he did was pronounce her dead. I have never seen anyone (on either side) question Meyer on his failure to perform these two simple tests.

DeeDee249,
Who knows Coroner Meyer may be one of the magic circle? He was likely told in advance what circumstances to expect and advised to execute minimal autopsy procedures. He might say TOD was too difficult to estimate given all the variables so entered the time of discovery?

I reckon the pineapple residue prevented the display of an open and shut case. Otherwise even the Coroner seemed prepared to accept JonBenet's corpse on the basis it was an intruder homicide, so requiring minimal procedures. That is until the pineapple, skull-fracture, and her digital penetration along with the size-12's were revealed.

Coroner Meyer, regardless of how he was advised beforehand, must have known at some point in the autopsy he was dealing with a staged crime-scene. Aspects of his autopsy report are couched in opaque technical terms e.g. birefringent foreign material. That is, would there be any non-foreign birefringent material you might expect to discover inside JonBenet?

If he is itemising birefringent material then the tests must have been done, and he must know exactly what this birefringent material was. Also you can bet its birefringent index will have been compared with that of the paintbrush handle. So its safe to conclude that information in the Autopsy Report was deliberately minimised.

Also digital penetration is not the same as paintbrush penetration, so is Coroner Meyer hinting indirectly that birefringent material arrived via the digital penetration, and that all this was part of his stated sexual contact? e.g. Detective Arndt told Your Affiant that Dr. Meyer told her that is was his opinion that the victim had been subjected to sexual contact.

So there was obviously some discussion at the autopsy regarding JonBenet's internal injury and her enlarged hymen, and instead of Coroner Meyer saying something like penetration by unknown object and awaiting a call to the stand to opine it was likely penetration was executed with paintbrush he appears confident that JonBenet had been subjected to sexual contact.

.

 

[DeeDee249]

Correct on all counts, UKGuy. Arndt, who we know was present at the autopsy, said that Meyer mentioned the condition of JBR's hymen and vaginal trauma to be consistent with a digital penetration, though he did not put this in the report. All coroners dictate notes as they dissect; we do not have that information, but LE and the DA's office must have it. Meyer knows MUCH more than he has said.

 

[JMO8778]

Is it possible the vag. trauma was caused by someone attempting to sweep the area of blood and fluid with a finger? And perhaps a tiny splinter from the paintbrush became lodged there as that happened,if the brush was broken right before that?
I just wonder if it really was a staged sexual assault,b/c if a real assault had occurred..whether it was Patsy overzealously cleaning or JB was being molested...would someone attempt to make it worse,in order to cover it up?

 

[UKGuy]

Is it possible the vag. trauma was caused by someone attempting to sweep the area of blood and fluid with a finger? And perhaps a tiny splinter from the paintbrush became lodged there as that happened,if the brush was broken right before that?
I just wonder if it really was a staged sexual assault,b/c if a real assault had occurred..whether it was Patsy overzealously cleaning or JB was being molested...would someone attempt to make it worse,in order to cover it up?

JMO8778,
Sure thats possible, or JonBenet was wiped a second time, e.g. Coroner Meyer's remarks, and the splinter was transferred from hand to cloth then internally?

I just wonder if it really was a staged sexual assault,b/c if a real assault had occurred..whether it was Patsy overzealously cleaning or JB was being molested...would someone attempt to make it worse,in order to cover it up?

I doubt it was staged, since it was then hidden from view beneath layers of clothing, including those size-12's, yet JonBenet was allegedly abducted from bed, but was wearing longjohns and size-12's, so maybe the person who thought up the staging considered the size-12's an important aspect, in a way that is lost on us, since we concentrate on the Wednesday feature, that person could have considered the size-12's as excellent covering?

Either way assuming Coroner Meyer is correct, JonBenet was wiped down, then the size-12's are pulled back up, leaving her skin clean, but her size-12's blood-stained? This suggests JonBenet was being cleaned up, then re-dressed to conform to a bedtime abduction, with the lower clothing acting to hide any signs of a prior assault, this is then later factored into the Ramsey account of events, by claiming JonBenet was sleeping on arriving back home.

A staged crime-scene that included a sexual assault would not need to be covered up. JonBenet left naked from the waist down, visibly injured would accord with a psychopathic intruder assault. Yet this is not what is portrayed.

So however you wish to think about the circumstances leading to JonBenet's death, it appears , to quote Coroner Meyer, that she was subjected to sexual contact, then a major part of the staging was intended to hide this from a preliminary view. Hence John Ramsey's desire to flee by plane interstate asap, he must have known what was going to be discovered!


I do not think I have ever come across a mother who overzealously cleaned her child leading to a homicide that resulted in such contrived staging, not impossible but imo improbable. Whereas how many have read about the father molesting his daughter which leads to conflict resulting in a homicide and various forms of staging, in an attempt to evade justice?


.

 

[JMO8778]

JMO8778,
Sure thats possible, or JonBenet was wiped a second time, e.g. Coroner Meyer's remarks, and the splinter was transferred from hand to cloth then internally?


I doubt it was staged, since it was then hidden from view beneath layers of clothing, including those size-12's, yet JonBenet was allegedly abducted from bed, but was wearing longjohns and size-12's, so maybe the person who thought up the staging considered the size-12's an important aspect, in a way that is lost on us, since we concentrate on the Wednesday feature, that person could have considered the size-12's as excellent covering?

right,that's what I question as well;some ppl think the splinter is a sign of someone staging a sexual assault with the paintbrush handle,in order to try and cover/account for past abuse.
But the splinter could have arrived by other means,the most obvious to me is it was on the gloved hand of the person who broke the brush,who then went to the vaginal area staging next.

Either way assuming Coroner Meyer is correct, JonBenet was wiped down, then the size-12's are pulled back up, leaving her skin clean, but her size-12's blood-stained? This suggests JonBenet was being cleaned up, then re-dressed to conform to a bedtime abduction, with the lower clothing acting to hide any signs of a prior assault, this is then later factored into the Ramsey account of events, by claiming JonBenet was sleeping on arriving back home.

yes,sleeping,as in,whatever was there,they (and esp. JR,since Patsy was told to say she did the changing of clothes) didn't do it! Just another lawyer tactic..don't make any comment that could place you at risk of having done it.

A staged crime-scene that included a sexual assault would not need to be covered up. JonBenet left naked from the waist down, visibly injured would accord with a psychopathic intruder assault. Yet this is not what is portrayed.

So however you wish to think about the circumstances leading to JonBenet's death, it appears , to quote Coroner Meyer, that she was subjected to sexual contact, then a major part of the staging was intended to hide this from a preliminary view. Hence John Ramsey's desire to flee by plane interstate asap, he must have known what was going to be discovered!

darn right on that!! he wanted to get the h*ll outta dodge!

I do not think I have ever come across a mother who overzealously cleaned her child leading to a homicide that resulted in such contrived staging, not impossible but imo improbable.

well,CK says the corporal cleaning was a big issue,so I do take that into consideration.
However,I suppose the real question is,why was she corporally punishing her anyway..did someone tell her to do that? or was it for her own reason(s)?

Whereas how many have read about the father molesting his daughter which leads to conflict resulting in a homicide and various forms of staging, in an attempt to evade justice?

I don't know about the numbers,but that seems more likely.
The only thing that gets me about that,was Patsy's overall guilty behavior,her many 'confessions',so to speak,and when she said things like she had flashbacks of JB screaming,it's hard to imagine she wasn't there and didn't do it.When she appeared on CNN all drugged up and blurting out all kinds of nonsense,you might as well could have just stamped the word guilty right on he forehead there.
The version that fits into my mind is JB was being molested,and Patsy became enraged over it.

 

[coloradokares]

JMO8778,
Sure thats possible, or JonBenet was wiped a second time, e.g. Coroner Meyer's remarks, and the splinter was transferred from hand to cloth then internally?


I doubt it was staged, since it was then hidden from view beneath layers of clothing, including those size-12's, yet JonBenet was allegedly abducted from bed, but was wearing longjohns and size-12's, so maybe the person who thought up the staging considered the size-12's an important aspect, in a way that is lost on us, since we concentrate on the Wednesday feature, that person could have considered the size-12's as excellent covering?

Either way assuming Coroner Meyer is correct, JonBenet was wiped down, then the size-12's are pulled back up, leaving her skin clean, but her size-12's blood-stained? This suggests JonBenet was being cleaned up, then re-dressed to conform to a bedtime abduction, with the lower clothing acting to hide any signs of a prior assault, this is then later factored into the Ramsey account of events, by claiming JonBenet was sleeping on arriving back home.

A staged crime-scene that included a sexual assault would not need to be covered up. JonBenet left naked from the waist down, visibly injured would accord with a psychopathic intruder assault. Yet this is not what is portrayed.

So however you wish to think about the circumstances leading to JonBenet's death, it appears , to quote Coroner Meyer, that she was subjected to sexual contact, then a major part of the staging was intended to hide this from a preliminary view. Hence John Ramsey's desire to flee by plane interstate asap, he must have known what was going to be discovered!


I do not think I have ever come across a mother who overzealously cleaned her child leading to a homicide that resulted in such contrived staging, not impossible but imo improbable. Whereas how many have read about the father molesting his daughter which leads to conflict resulting in a homicide and various forms of staging, in an attempt to evade justice?


.

What if the overzealous hid abusive douching. However I dont discount at all the possibility of incest. Could have been the reason for the overcleansing?

 

[UKGuy]

What if the overzealous hid abusive douching. However I dont discount at all the possibility of incest. Could have been the reason for the overcleansing?

coloradokares,
Why does it have to be abusive douching why not plain abuse. There was no evidence of abusive douching, no remarks about any internal ph imbalance etc.

So not long after having a pineapple snack, Patsy decides this is a good time to douche JonBenet? That, whilst not impossible, just does not add up. Not unless Patsy's douching was simply abuse by another method. If the pants lying on her bathroom floor had been the black velvet ones, then some reason for douching could be put forward? Why remove her size-6's if they were simply stained in some manner, the urine-stained size-12's were left on her, and the soiled pants on the bathroom floor, so I reckon that aspect was not an issue.

Lets assume Patsy is chastising JonBenet for some toilet incident, she becomes angry, either whacks JonBenet or pushes JonBenet resulting in an accidental fall, causing JonBenet to appear unconscious. So why does she not dial ER , remember when Burke whacked JonBenet , she was off to hospital fast! Cleaning up your daughter is no capital offence, so why neglect her, why deny your own daughter medical assistance?

Nobody can disprove the douching or corporal cleansing theory, but imo it does not seem to offer the motive to deny your own daughter medical assistance, then kill her with a garrote , all accompanied with some convoluted staging.


.

 

[coloradokares]

For me to believe the examination results on the live body are legit, I have to believe that the autopsy results on the dead body are lies.

:clap::clap::clap::dance: Now that is telling it like it is!!

 

[UKGuy]

right,that's what I question as well;some ppl think the splinter is a sign of someone staging a sexual assault with the paintbrush handle,in order to try and cover/account for past abuse.
But the splinter could have arrived by other means,the most obvious to me is it was on the gloved hand of the person who broke the brush,who then went to the vaginal area staging next.



yes,sleeping,as in,whatever was there,they (and esp. JR,since Patsy was told to say she did the changing of clothes) didn't do it! Just another lawyer tactic..don't make any comment that could place you at risk of having done it.

darn right on that!! he wanted to get the h*ll outta dodge!



well,CK says the corporal cleaning was a big issue,so I do take that into consideration.
However,I suppose the real question is,why was she corporally punishing her anyway..did someone tell her to do that? or was it for her own reason(s)?


I don't know about the numbers,but that seems more likely.
The only thing that gets me about that,was Patsy's overall guilty behavior,her many 'confessions',so to speak,and when she said things like she had flashbacks of JB screaming,it's hard to imagine she wasn't there and didn't do it.When she appeared on CNN all drugged up and blurting out all kinds of nonsense,you might as well could have just stamped the word guilty right on he forehead there.
The version that fits into my mind is JB was being molested,and Patsy became enraged over it.

JMO8778,

The version that fits into my mind is JB was being molested,and Patsy became enraged over it.

That seems to be the reason most people will accept, but I reckon Patsy was fully aware of any abuse, it would have come as no surprise. I wonder where JonBenet slept when Patsy was in the guest bedroom? Remember her comments about Nedra keeping an eye on JonBenet when she was not there?

Without the evidence of prior abuse, and the pageant training I reckon Patsy would be the prime suspect, but since they both had dirt on each other, imo that can only mean molestation. Cleaning up your daughter , even forcibly, is no hanging offence, it does not merit garroting her and staging a crime-scene. It simply has to be something so serious involving both parents for each to collude in the death of JonBenet, and that if you factor in the evidence of prior molestation and grooming in the form of pageant training, this probably binds both parents to the course of action that to the outsider seems impossible for a mother to undertake?



.

 

[coloradokares]

coloradokares,
Why does it have to be abusive douching why not plain abuse. There was no evidence of abusive douching, no remarks about any internal ph imbalance etc.

So not long after having a pineapple snack, Patsy decides this is a good time to douche JonBenet? That, whilst not impossible, just does not add up. Not unless Patsy's douching was simply abuse by another method. If the pants lying on her bathroom floor had been the black velvet ones, then some reason for douching could be put forward? Why remove her size-6's if they were simply stained in some manner, the urine-stained size-12's were left on her, and the soiled pants on the bathroom floor, so I reckon that aspect was not an issue.

Lets assume Patsy is chastising JonBenet for some toilet incident, she becomes angry, either whacks JonBenet or pushes JonBenet resulting in an accidental fall, causing JonBenet to appear unconscious. So why does she not dial ER , remember when Burke whacked JonBenet , she was off to hospital fast! Cleaning up your daughter is no capital offence, so why neglect her, why deny your own daughter medical assistance?

Nobody can disprove the douching or corporal cleansing theory, but imo it does not seem to offer the motive to deny your own daughter medical assistance, then kill her with a garrote , all accompanied with some convoluted staging.


.

I agree but I think the corporal cleaning by what ever terminology you suggest to call it was a part. Not that it was the primary reason. Be it whether John was molesting her or Burke was diddling her or what the h-e-double toothpics ever. Even as far fetched as the Stine kid may have had a role. I was not there. You were not there I dont beleive. So what I think is the head bashing was not part of the cleaning That occured in one trigger hair moment in which I believe Patsy lost it and the rest was cover up for One Mad as a hatter BiPolar Outburst that resulted in the need for all the subsequent staging. Not that she was trying to hide the douching, I read somewhere and I think Dee Dee will back me on this that the blood was diluted , from what??? There have been more than on post on that in the past. Run this across your mind. What if it was late and once again JonBenet wet and or soiled or both herself and Mom had had it. Patsy is tired and she is going to have to clean her up again and they have to get up early and she is not done packing and .... and the head of steam is building up. Off they go to the bathroom and Who the heck knows the truth of those minutes behind closed doors. I dont believe that her death was intentional but rather some Bizzare culmination of events. Please understand that Living in the Boulder area has its own drawbacks in a way. Its unavoidable to Know someone that did not know them or someone that knew them very well. Alot of rumor was the order of the day. I discounted most of all of what I knew or heard or was told even by people that I knew which came from such impeccabble sources you could not just fluff it off. Something very nuts went on in that house that night and unless and until it is beyond any shadow of any doubt I will not entertain the notion of an intruder.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't recall seeing that the blood was diluted- but I have read that JBR's DNA from the blood in her panties was "mixed" with the male DNA. I said at the time that it was confusing because it wasn't really clarified whether the male DNA came from stranger blood that happened to be in the same place as JBR's blood on the panties, or if the male DNA had another source. Semen has not been mentioned. Saliva had been mentioned, but only in discussion on forums like this. So what I'd like to know is the source of the male DNA. Is it blood, saliva, hair, skin cells?
We know the DNA comes from 2 donors (JBR and unknown male). We know JBR's source is drops of her blood. But we don't know if there was a second blood source.


The more I think about JR's attempt to get out of the state RIGHT AFTER discovering his daughter's body the more astounded I am that no one there thought this was a culprit's get-away attempt. An innocent parent wouldn't go anywhere until LE had a lead on who killed their child. Fine, get your other children out of harm's way if there is a kidnapper who has already targeted one of your kids- maybe even get your wife out of town if you suspect your enemy has targeted your family. But if I were the INNOCENT father of a kidnapped/murdered child, I'd stay put.

 

[JMO8778]

I don't recall seeing that the blood was diluted- but I have read that JBR's DNA from the blood in her panties was "mixed" with the male DNA. I said at the time that it was confusing because it wasn't really clarified whether the male DNA came from stranger blood that happened to be in the same place as JBR's blood on the panties, or if the male DNA had another source. Semen has not been mentioned. Saliva had been mentioned, but only in discussion on forums like this. So what I'd like to know is the source of the male DNA. Is it blood, saliva, hair, skin cells?
We know the DNA comes from 2 donors (JBR and unknown male). We know JBR's source is drops of her blood. But we don't know if there was a second blood source.


The more I think about JR's attempt to get out of the state RIGHT AFTER discovering his daughter's body the more astounded I am that no one there thought this was a culprit's get-away attempt. An innocent parent wouldn't go anywhere until LE had a lead on who killed their child. Fine, get your other children out of harm's way if there is a kidnapper who has already targeted one of your kids- maybe even get your wife out of town if you suspect your enemy has targeted your family. But if I were the INNOCENT father of a kidnapped/murdered child, I'd stay put.

Deedee,do you think it's possible the unknown DNA is Burke's? And that TR is using that knowledge,knowing it can't be released b/c BR was underage at the time..to their advantage? I just keep coming back to the show where Fuhrman made the comment about the dna having R similarities,and Dr Baden shaking his head in agreement.
That doesn't mean,of course,that BR did it.But remember that JR had said he'd helped BR put together a toy or something that night,and then put him to bed.Since story-tellers usually mix some truth in with their lies,I think he was telling the truth there.And that he put BR to bed after that.So it's possible some of BR's dna was on JR.And perhaps that transferred during the staging.
But I do recall reading somewhere that Fuhrman thought the dna,at least some of it,was stutter dna,replicated from JB's own dna.If that's the case then it's not even technically enough loci to enter into the database.And of course,that dna will never match to anyone anyway,as that mixed profile simply doesn't exist in anyone.

 

[DeeDee249]

Yes, it is possible. I have even read where the statement that the sample contained DNA from a non-R male was deliberately misleading. It was something about the male DNA having the genetic fingerprint of the MOTHER of the male donor, and technically that would make it PAUGH DNA, not R. So if it was BR's DNA, this was a way of deflecting away from him, and under Colorado law, nothing could be made public if it implicated or identified him in any way.