Who Killed Jon Benet Ramsey? Poll

[Sophie]

Hi again, Tessa. Just another thing which - for me - points away from Burke: the force used. I know this isn't definitive but I always think of Mary Bell, a child murderer over here in the 60s. She strangled two toddlers (one of whom was the size of a seven year-old) when about ten herself. In the first case, she used so little force in the strangulation that the pathologist couldn't say definitively that the child had been murdered. In the second case, it was other injuries which first alerted police to the fact of murder. It was the gentle, almost playfulness of the strangulation which made police know that they were looking for a child. JBR's murder, by contrast, has adult brutality written over it.

 

[BBB167893]

Hi again, Tessa. Just another thing which - for me - points away from Burke: the force used. I know this isn't definitive but I always think of Mary Bell, a child murderer over here in the 60s. She strangled two toddlers (one of whom was the size of a seven year-old) when about ten herself. In the first case, she used so little force in the strangulation that the pathologist couldn't say definitively that the child had been murdered. In the second case, it was other injuries which first alerted police to the fact of murder. It was the gentle, almost playfulness of the strangulation which made police know that they were looking for a child. JBR's murder, by contrast, has adult brutality written over it.

I've read about that case. Awful.

 

[Tessa2009]

Hi Tessa,

I must say that I don't see it as Patsy suddenly snapping. I think her stress had built up over several years and for several reasons starting most probably with the cancer. I have no personal or family knowledge of this but I've seen many people commenting that surviving cancer changes a person - he or she can become almost bipolar: overjoyed to have survived one day and depressed and resentful about the prognosis the next. I think she bore most of the responsibility for holding the family and home together and, even with help, her personal standards meant that this was a never-ending task. On that Christmas Day, I believe she was exhausted, stressed, a bit annoyed that she had had a couple of snits with JBR and,crucially, couldn't just chill like everyone else does over the holidays because she has a trip to Michigan and a birthday trip to prepare an entire family for. There is also some anecdotal evidence that the Rameys' finances may not have been quite as comfortable as they appeared and that the marriage was less-than perfect. Equally, if you have been avoiding alcohol owing to liver trouble but have a couple of glasses as a Christmas treat, it's conceivable that you could be pretty intoxicated.

Calling her 'lovely' may have been a stretch and I am not sure that I would have got on with her in RL. The fur coats alone would have got my hackles up and she appears to have taken herself very seriously (eg. The Judith Phillips comment about Patsy not speaking to her husband for a year because he pointed out a spellling mistake or something in one of her written pieces). There's also the suggestion that a lot of her conspicuous kindnesses were 'for show' or from some sort of patronising sense of noblesse oblige. In fairness to her, though, whatever her motives for doing things like writing a last minute Santa poem for Linda Hoffman-Pugh's daughter, she had to be a sensitive person to think of doing it.

WRT her various interviews, I think she was medicated to within an inch or her life. The people who allowed her to go on TV in that state presumably thought that, so long as she wasn't taking a truth serum, there was no problem with her being interviewed.

I tried responding to this post the other day, but my internet lost connection (I was sooooo mad grrr). What you say about her stress and all of the other things, that's what I mean. She snapped. I guess because I said she snapped that night, I should have elaborated on the other stressors in her life. And if she didn't speak to JR for over a year, for any reason, speaks volumes to me. I believe she was a sociopath. But that is just my opinion. She may have written a poem for a little girl, but she probably did it for the oohs and aahs and the thankx she would receive. I don't know, I just feel she was a fake person, and able to lie with ease.

I do agree with you that they shouldn't have let her interview while being medicated, but they probably thought she'd slip up somewhere?

 

[Tessa2009]

Hi again, Tessa. Just another thing which - for me - points away from Burke: the force used. I know this isn't definitive but I always think of Mary Bell, a child murderer over here in the 60s. She strangled two toddlers (one of whom was the size of a seven year-old) when about ten herself. In the first case, she used so little force in the strangulation that the pathologist couldn't say definitively that the child had been murdered. In the second case, it was other injuries which first alerted police to the fact of murder. It was the gentle, almost playfulness of the strangulation which made police know that they were looking for a child. JBR's murder, by contrast, has adult brutality written over it.

I just read about that case a month ago. So sad. Mary Bell's life was so heartbreaking. And I know what she did (and her little friend) wasn't funny, but when they described what happened in court, I actually chuckled when they reiterated what the children said and did to one another in the court room. She was just a child. When they described how she grew up in prison, she was still a child when she left. It was just a very sad story. And I agree with you regarding Burke and not being able to do it. How would he have hung JB? I think it's ridiculous for anyone to believe he had anything to do with it.

The RN is the one thing that I can't get past. Why would someone who murdered a little girl stay in that home and write a 6 (is that correct?) paged RN on a pad from said home? There isn't a reason!

 

[Sophie]

I tried responding to this post the other day, but my internet lost connection (I was sooooo mad grrr). What you say about her stress and all of the other things, that's what I mean. She snapped. I guess because I said she snapped that night, I should have elaborated on the other stressors in her life. And if she didn't speak to JR for over a year, for any reason, speaks volumes to me. I believe she was a sociopath. But that is just my opinion. She may have written a poem for a little girl, but she probably did it for the oohs and aahs and the thankx she would receive. I don't know, I just feel she was a fake person, and able to lie with ease.

I do agree with you that they shouldn't have let her interview while being medicated, but they probably thought she'd slip up somewhere?

You know, Tessa, I had *never* thought of Patsy in terms of sociopathy so I'm grateful to you for raising the point. Certainly, the fact that so many people (especially men)* thought she was wonderful would fit in with the manipulations of which a sociopath is capable. I must think about that possibility more. TY

*Not being sexist guys: a study of allied troops and freed war prisoners after WW2 demonstrated that men recognised something not quite right about other men and women about other women but that, subject to odd exceptions, neither sex was good at recognising strangeness in the opposite gender. This study was carried out with specific regard to psychopathy as it was then called.

 

[Sophie]

I tried responding to this post the other day, but my internet lost connection (I was sooooo mad grrr). What you say about her stress and all of the other things, that's what I mean. She snapped. I guess because I said she snapped that night, I should have elaborated on the other stressors in her life. And if she didn't speak to JR for over a year, for any reason, speaks volumes to me. I believe she was a sociopath. But that is just my opinion. She may have written a poem for a little girl, but she probably did it for the oohs and aahs and the thankx she would receive. I don't know, I just feel she was a fake person, and able to lie with ease.

I do agree with you that they shouldn't have let her interview while being medicated, but they probably thought she'd slip up somewhere?

PS. Sorry to hear about your posting issues: I have had problems on and off with private messages for about a month. I'm sure it's my Internet connection but it's soooooooo annoying!

 

[Sophie]

I just read about that case a month ago. So sad. Mary Bell's life was so heartbreaking. And I know what she did (and her little friend) wasn't funny, but when they described what happened in court, I actually chuckled when they reiterated what the children said and did to one another in the court room. She was just a child. When they described how she grew up in prison, she was still a child when she left. It was just a very sad story. And I agree with you regarding Burke and not being able to do it. How would he have hung JB? I think it's ridiculous for anyone to believe he had anything to do with it.

The RN is the one thing that I can't get past. Why would someone who murdered a little girl stay in that home and write a 6 (is that correct?) paged RN on a pad from said home? There isn't a reason!

Hi Tessa, hope you are having a good day. You are right: Mary's story is unbearable - from the poverty in which she was raised to the sexual abuse at her mother's hands (a mother using her child as a prop in her own prostitution ) to the fact that the police were the only people who even tried to comfort Mary and look after her. Appalling stuff. Not dissimilar to the boys who murdered Jamie Bulger and a million miles away from the profile of Burke.


I agree wrt the ransom note. Even Lou Smit admitted that was the weakest link in the IDI argument (along with an intruder feeding JBR pineapple). Just beyond logical belief....

 

[Tessa2009]

Hi Tessa, hope you are having a good day. You are right: Mary's story is unbearable - from the poverty in which she was raised to the sexual abuse at her mother's hands (a mother using her child as a prop in her own prostitution ) to the fact that the police were the only people who even tried to comfort Mary and look after her. Appalling stuff. Not dissimilar to the boys who murdered Jamie Bulger and a million miles away from the profile of Burke.


I agree wrt the ransom note. Even Lou Smit admitted that was the weakest link in the IDI argument (along with an intruder feeding JBR pineapple). Just beyond logical belief....

I couldn't read the story about Jamie. I got the jist of it through a friend that had. I don't know anything about the boys that did this to that beautiful little boy. I still can see the image the printed in the newspaper, it just turns my stomach to even think of it. I do know they just released those boys. Appalling!

While I am reading all of your posts, the RN and the missing phone records would be just enough for any logical thinking person to believe there wasn't an intruder. At least, that's my opinion. The DNA not matching anyone, that is just unbelievable to me. That's why I asked if they had any pets, especially male dogs.

 

[Theonly1]

As the poll stands today it looks like 34 percent of folks here think IDI and the rest (the majority) believe one of the Ramseys were responsible for the death of JonBenet. Out of all the things which point to RDI, the ransom note is one of the most compelling pieces of evidence to me.

 

[madeleine]

As the poll stands today it looks like 34 percent of folks here think IDI and the rest (the majority) believe one of the Ramseys were responsible for the death of JonBenet. Out of all the things which point to RDI, the ransom note is one of the most compelling pieces of evidence to me.

I agree.

Can we state as fact that the RN written by someone who was involved in JB's death or by the killer him/herself?YES

Do we know who wrote the RN?I think we do.

It's that simple.


IMO

 

[WHITEFANG]

I agree.

Can we state as fact that the RN written by someone who was involved in JB's death or by the killer him/herself?YES

Do we know who wrote the RN?I think we do.

It's that simple.


IMO

That's all she wrote.

 

[madeleine]

That's all she wrote.

A little update?

Can we state as fact that the RN written by someone who was involved in JB's death or by the killer him/herself?YES

Do we know who wrote the RN? I HAVE NO IDEA

It's that simple.

 

[OneLove]

Do we know who wrote the RN? I HAVE NO IDEA

It's that simple.

I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA, but I can't prove it. I can point to great likelihoods, but I can't conclusively PROVE it. Pretty different than having NO idea.

 

[madeleine]

I HAVE A PRETTY GOOD IDEA,

I thought so too.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I heard about the Nostradamus connection to ICA...looking fiercely for this connection, I stumbled upon one with JonBenet....


NOSTRADAMUS PREDICTED THE MURDERER OF JONBENET WAS THE FATHER AND NOT JOHN KARR
By Robert 'NostraBOBus' Egan
http://www.newprophecy.net/now2.htm


Scroll down about 1/4 of page....


JON BENET RAMSEY MURDER CASE IN NOSTRADAMUS
In the works of Michel Nostradamus:

Century 10, Verse 92, we read the following:
Devant le pere l'enfant sera tué,
Le pere apres entre cordes de jonc,
Geneuois peuple sera esuertue,
Gisant le chef au milieu comme un tronc.

Before the father the child will be killed,
The father afterwards between ropes of rushes:
The people of Geneva will have exerted themselves,
The chief lying in the middle like a log.

JMHO

 

[Mastermind]

The only IDI theory that even remotely makes sense is that a disgruntled employee murdered Jonbenet.

Someone
1 working around the house like a gardner or a housekeeper
2. an employee at Access
3. an employee at one of Jon's prior businesses in Georgia.

 

[MurriFlower]

The only IDI theory that even remotely makes sense is that a disgruntled employee murdered Jonbenet.

Someone
1 working around the house like a gardner or a housekeeper
2. an employee at Access
3. an employee at one of Jon's prior businesses in Georgia.

Ha Huh! A listmaker.

1. yes
2. Probably not
3. Unlikely

 

[WHITEFANG]

Ha Huh! A listmaker.

1. yes
2. Probably not
3. Unlikely

If we look closely at LHP, she has a number of the qualifiers, IMO. And, again, it is just my opinion. Also, talk about pornographic tendencies, that woman wrote the most filthy garbage, as though she was describing someone's batting average. She is disgusting. Putrid. Sick.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

There are several matching deposits of genetic material on the clothing that is known to have been handled by a criminal. Known to be involved in this crime. Is there a match to it? None factually known.

There are hundreds of handwritten words known to be involved in the crime. Is there a match to it? None factually known.

I don't know about you, but to me this strongly indicates that the killer is not likely on BPD's list of usual suspects. If anyone would like to explain how this isn't so... go ahead. How we should continue to suspect people that don't match either the DNA or the handwriting. Where is the rationale that isn't far-fetched? That is, someone close by that is so screwed up as to do this, to actually be involved, and yet not own the DNA or the handwriting? Seems very remote to me, and fueled with bias or circular reasoning.

 

[madeleine]

The only IDI theory that even remotely makes sense is that a disgruntled employee murdered Jonbenet.

Someone
1 working around the house like a gardner or a housekeeper
2. an employee at Access

The fbi guys said that 118.000 is a weird number because how would 3 people divide such a sum.
Was wondering about LHP. 118.000+2.000=120.000 nice round sum
We know PR wanted to give her 2.000

And the RN.Sounds like someone wanted to portray her/himself as an educated person but misspelled exactly those words,someone trying to copy a person like PR.

And who else would have had the time to study PR's handwriting better?

I know LHP's dna didn't match and I don't think she killed JB but what if it was her hubby/son with an accomplice.

They knew about the house,basement,everything.Who would know better about a bonus than a snooping housekeeper.