Why Burke did not kill JonBenet

  • #181
BrotherMoon said:
Are you done with the straw man? I don't think she is a psychopath, rather a borderline and/or narcissist with sociopathic tendencies.

If psychopthy is clear to you, you owe it to society to work with law enforcement and/or psychiatric medicine. My bet is you'd get laughed out of any such institution (or offered residency), just like I laugh at you.

Heck no, you are doing the lay diagnosis, not I! I can not see any fuzzy line between sociopathic and psychopathic personalities, if you can explain it please "fill me in". BTW who in their right mind would want to "work" with psychopathic/sociopathic people? what makes you consider these as psychiatric conditions and not life choices of clearly evil people? Do you know of a behavior modification or a pill that can cure one of their personality? Perhaps a lobotomy, but hey we don't do that one anymore(and they never would have, on a psychopath). I see true sociopathy/psychopathy as a life choice, one that can possibly be blamed on early environment and childhood wounds , however I am open to the remote possibility of a "bad seed". IMO there is no such thing as "sociopathic tendencies",other than used in name calling. You can laugh, it's okay, laughter releases "good stuff", and yeppers I can laugh at myself!
 
  • #182
sissi said:
I see true sociopathy/psychopathy as a life choice


Judging by that gem of a comment you clearly have absolutely no knowledge or education of even rudimentary psychology so I think Sissi you should refrain from attampting to comment on it.

Psychopaths (as well of sociopaths) although concious of their choices (unless in a deranged state ) still certainly do not"choose" to be what they are .



You posts always make me feel like we're all looking at the same blue sky(although in differing shades of blue) but youre trying to convince us its orange

:confused:
 
  • #183
messiecake quote:
Psychopaths (as well of sociopaths) although concious of their choices (unless in a deranged state ) still certainly do not"choose" to be what they are .


What?
 
  • #184
sissi said:
messiecake quote:
Psychopaths (as well of sociopaths) although concious of their choices (unless in a deranged state ) still certainly do not"choose" to be what they are .


What?
I agree with messiecake. A person does not choose to be mentally ill, it is a result of chemical imbalances and other internal and external factors. You can't make a "life choice" to be a psychopath.

Not that I think that the actions of a psychopath can be excused simply because they are mentally ill. Menatlly ill people can make the choice to get treament and medication. They can choose to be institutionalized if they are a danger to themselves or others. They do have choices in what they do or don't do about their mental illness.
 
  • #185
princessmer81 said:
I agree with messiecake. A person does not choose to be mentally ill, it is a result of chemical imbalances and other internal and external factors. You can't make a "life choice" to be a psychopath.

Not that I think that the actions of a psychopath can be excused simply because they are mentally ill. Menatlly ill people can make the choice to get treament and medication. They can choose to be institutionalized if they are a danger to themselves or others. They do have choices in what they do or don't do about their mental illness.

Thank you Princess!

To say someone chooses to be a psychopath is just bizarre.


Sissi,
What didn't you understand?
Do I need to draw a picture???
PSYCHO AND SOCIOPATHS ARE AWARE OF THEIR ILLNESS BUT DO NOT CHOOSE TO BE THE WAY THEY ARE ALTHOUGH THEY ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS............IF YOU CANT COMPREHEND THAT THEN THERES JUST NO HOPE FOR YOU! :rolleyes:
 
  • #186
Although Brothermoon and I disagree on many things, there is one issue which I now understand.
To those who choose a "webster definition" of this, how can I say you are wrong. Of course, psychopathy/sociopathy are unrelated illnesses clustered among many others labled "mental illnesses". How could I have been so wrong . Please continue with your discussion, I have evidently taken a bad turn here. Gee, being a woman it must have been a hot flash or something, I guess a mental illness on it's own. SORRY!
 
  • #187
Ivy said:
KATKAT, your post #171 is excellent. It illustrates the dynamics that may have come into play in the JonBenet case.

I am a BDIer who thinks that John and Patsy may have initially considered removing the body from the house but changed their minds for any number of reasons...one reason being that they couldn't bear the thought of dumping the body of their precious daughter somewhere, knowing that animals might find it. I think the note was written before they changed their minds about removing the body. When I read the note with that in mind, it makes sense.

imo
Thanks, it just bothers me when people say that kids are not able to do things. There is a thing and I am sure brothermoon can tell me what it is. When kids are not loved hugged, etc. they have no conscience, they have no feeling will kill animals stick pens in them, hurt brothers and sisters etc. It is some sort of seperation thing. They don't care. I watched a true story movie once on a little 5 year old girl that had been so badly abused she had it and they never could get her to be right again. They had to put alarms on doors and give little brother a whistle to protect himself. It is sad what people do to their kids. Unfort. even though you feel sorry for her as a child, she will grow up one day and she will hurt or kill someones kids. What do we do with people like this.

PS
ya'll quit picking on sissi. people who have never suffered or have never had a close personal relationship with someone with mental problems don't understand that they are in no condition to seek help on their own, and when they do and start feeling better, 90% will stop meds thinking they are cured. It comes from not wanting to admit they have a problem since that is such a taboo, to have mental illness.

Kat
IMO
 
  • #188
KATKAT19691 said:
PS
ya'll quit picking on sissi. people who have never suffered or have never had a close personal relationship with someone with mental problems don't understand that they are in no condition to seek help on their own, and when they do and start feeling better, 90% will stop meds thinking they are cured. It comes from not wanting to admit they have a problem since that is such a taboo, to have mental illness.

Kat
IMO


No one is "picking" Sissi.............she made an ,obviously,uninformed opinion and it was corrected-simple as that.



Someone makes a statement,someone else responds.Isn't that how a message board works????
 
  • #189
KATKAT19691 said:
Thanks, it just bothers me when people say that kids are not able to do things. There is a thing and I am sure brothermoon can tell me what it is. When kids are not loved hugged, etc. they have no conscience, they have no feeling will kill animals stick pens in them, hurt brothers and sisters etc. It is some sort of seperation thing. They don't care. I watched a true story movie once on a little 5 year old girl that had been so badly abused she had it and they never could get her to be right again. They had to put alarms on doors and give little brother a whistle to protect himself. It is sad what people do to their kids. Unfort. even though you feel sorry for her as a child, she will grow up one day and she will hurt or kill someones kids. What do we do with people like this.

PS
ya'll quit picking on sissi. people who have never suffered or have never had a close personal relationship with someone with mental problems don't understand that they are in no condition to seek help on their own, and when they do and start feeling better, 90% will stop meds thinking they are cured. It comes from not wanting to admit they have a problem since that is such a taboo, to have mental illness.

Kat
IMO
KItKat, I think within your description of that little girl I can point out and explain a bit . When I say "choice" ,I refer to our own personal way,from childhood on up, of reacting to our environment and making choices on how to fit into that environment while trying to save ourselves from emotional and physical pain . Even a child can decide how they feel best. Should they make themselves invisible, being so quiet as to limit family interaction, should they speak up and defend themselves (which they aren't really equipped to do) and possibly bring more attention to themselves , or should they react angrily and become a force so terrible that they are the feared ones. We've all read stories about little girls who were so abused they "learned" to disassociate themselves from their identity and pretend to be someone else,leading eventually to the very questionable "mental illness" of MPD. While ,certainly, these horribly abused little girls deserve to fantasize and become "in their minds" someone else ,they will still need the care and therapy necessary to overcome the reality of the real pain of their experiences. What I believe, and what others believe doesn't necessarily mean either of us is wrong, there are opinions favoring both sides of this issue as well as the issue of personality disorders actually being mental illnesses. In the pure sense, using psychosis as the standard, we can not include sociopathy/psychopath or MPD under this label. When I said CHOICE I certainly did not intend for it to be understood as literally as it was. The chemistry of the brain can be altered,as well, as is clearly demonstrated in neglected children ,those deprived of stimuli. Can we say these children genetically were predisposed not to develop normally,and while under the age of three can we say they chose to shut down? No ,it's all still unexplored territory yet with the newer mri's and other scanning techniques we can see areas of the brain that just do not develop normally in children with sensory deprivation. However this too can be countered with, was nutrition a factor, are neglected children less likely to take in nourishment? It goes on and on. But please understand my use of the word choice wasn't meant to be taken so literally.
Thanks for the "don't pick on sissi", and I wasn't being too nice , I was assuaging my attackers.
IMO
 
  • #190
I really take offense at being refered to as "an attacker".

Please! This is a message board.You made a statement and I responded.
I didnt realise we all were supposed to agree with everything everyone posted and never post anything to the contrary-yay for popular discourse!

After devoting the majority of my education to working in psychology and social work I felt the need to clarify your assumption as it was stated (I dont know if you intended to say things they way you did or not but if you reread what you post you can see why I took umbrage with it) because it was incorrect.
 
  • #191
Messiecake Quote Sissi,
What didn't you understand?
Do I need to draw a picture???
PSYCHO AND SOCIOPATHS ARE AWARE OF THEIR ILLNESS BUT DO NOT CHOOSE TO BE THE WAY THEY ARE ALTHOUGH THEY ARE ACCOUNTABLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS............IF YOU CANT COMPREHEND THAT THEN THERES JUST NO HOPE FOR YOU!
e:

..and you see this as a debate rather than an attack?
You do not know my credentials yet you "believe" you trumped them ..what?
 
  • #192
I dont see it as an attack at all.


Your response to my post was just to type"what?" like what I said was impossible to understand.



I dont belive myself smarter nor better nor more quailfied than anyone here and in fact 99% of my posts have nothing to do with my professional expirence and this is prob. only the 3rd time Ive ever mentioned so no I dont belive I was trying to "trump" you or show off .


Youre really sensitive about strangers youll never meet typing words on a computer...........sheesh!
 
  • #193
No, I am not sensitive, I really like ideas being discussed, and certainly do not mind a good debate, even if I am on the losing side. However, when a debate loses it's focus and some resort to saying, "do I have a to draw you a picture" , I can not help but call that "foul". I will never dismiss your opinions or the opinions of any one else on here as idiotic, I may try to counter (right or wrong) and attack the idea but never the person. As I have stated many times before, NO ONE knows who killed Jonbenet, LE and science failed us.
On the issue of personality disorders, I may argue my beliefs, however,in light of mental health issues not being pure science, you won't here me saying, I'm right, you're wrong.
This current issue aside, I feel the debate hasn't been too bad, especially considering I am in the minority. I enjoy reading all of the information, yours included ,Messiecake. I'm certain that all of us have a clue, but am not certain we can "name a killer" at this point. IMO
 
  • #194
sissi said:
KItKat, I think within your description of that little girl I can point out and explain a bit . When I say "choice" ,I refer to our own personal way,from childhood on up, of reacting to our environment and making choices on how to fit into that environment while trying to save ourselves from emotional and physical pain . Even a child can decide how they feel best. Should they make themselves invisible, being so quiet as to limit family interaction, should they speak up and defend themselves (which they aren't really equipped to do) and possibly bring more attention to themselves , or should they react angrily and become a force so terrible that they are the feared ones. We've all read stories about little girls who were so abused they "learned" to disassociate themselves from their identity and pretend to be someone else,leading eventually to the very questionable "mental illness" of MPD. While ,certainly, these horribly abused little girls deserve to fantasize and become "in their minds" someone else ,they will still need the care and therapy necessary to overcome the reality of the real pain of their experiences. What I believe, and what others believe doesn't necessarily mean either of us is wrong, there are opinions favoring both sides of this issue as well as the issue of personality disorders actually being mental illnesses. In the pure sense, using psychosis as the standard, we can not include sociopathy/psychopath or MPD under this label. When I said CHOICE I certainly did not intend for it to be understood as literally as it was. The chemistry of the brain can be altered,as well, as is clearly demonstrated in neglected children ,those deprived of stimuli. Can we say these children genetically were predisposed not to develop normally,and while under the age of three can we say they chose to shut down? No ,it's all still unexplored territory yet with the newer mri's and other scanning techniques we can see areas of the brain that just do not develop normally in children with sensory deprivation. However this too can be countered with, was nutrition a factor, are neglected children less likely to take in nourishment? It goes on and on. But please understand my use of the word choice wasn't meant to be taken so literally.
Thanks for the "don't pick on sissi", and I wasn't being too nice , I was assuaging my attackers.
IMO
No No. I mean they really do not feel anything, Where is brothermoon when ya need him. lol. I know he could tell me what this is called and it is driving me nuts trying to remember. It happens to boys and girls. They do not feel anything. It is from not being held, touched loved as infants and small toddlers. Other than trying to make them feel pain, doing things to them they dont like such as holding them down, there is no drug or theropy for them. It was the most scarey thing I have even seen. Mostly because I could never even think of leaving a child in a crib and not changing or feeding for days at a time much less not holding them. I had to force myself to but my baby down. I loved holding and talking to him. Come on Brother, come to my rescue and tell me what this is called so I once again can sleep.
Also, remember people who have a mental defect, usually do not know or believe they have one. This is why it goes untreated. Us as their family and friends are respon. for helping them.
Kat
 
  • #195
messiecake said:
I really take offense at being refered to as "an attacker".

Please! This is a message board.You made a statement and I responded.
I didnt realise we all were supposed to agree with everything everyone posted and never post anything to the contrary-yay for popular discourse!

After devoting the majority of my education to working in psychology and social work I felt the need to clarify your assumption as it was stated (I dont know if you intended to say things they way you did or not but if you reread what you post you can see why I took umbrage with it) because it was incorrect.
You are not an attacker, you are a posted with something to say. It is valued. As a matter of fact if we all agreed, we would have nothing to post.

Kat
IMO
 
  • #196
KATKAT19691 said:
No No. I mean they really do not feel anything, Where is brothermoon when ya need him. lol. I know he could tell me what this is called and it is driving me nuts trying to remember. It happens to boys and girls. They do not feel anything. It is from not being held, touched loved as infants and small toddlers. Other than trying to make them feel pain, doing things to them they dont like such as holding them down, there is no drug or theropy for them. It was the most scarey thing I have even seen. Mostly because I could never even think of leaving a child in a crib and not changing or feeding for days at a time much less not holding them. I had to force myself to but my baby down. I loved holding and talking to him. Come on Brother, come to my rescue and tell me what this is called so I once again can sleep.
Also, remember people who have a mental defect, usually do not know or believe they have one. This is why it goes untreated. Us as their family and friends are respon. for helping them.
Kat

apathetic?
There have been studies that have shown that even in lower primates, those that weren't cuddled and touched became apathetic, hyperactive and violent. Not sure if this is what you were looking for? Where is Brothermoon?
 
  • #197
messiecake you said..quote..IF YOU CANT COMPREHEND THAT THEN THERES JUST NO HOPE FOR YOU!

I guess I just wouldn't say this to another, and maybe I interpreted this as a more personal comment than you intended.
 
  • #198
sissi said:
apathetic?
There have been studies that have shown that even in lower primates, those that weren't cuddled and touched became apathetic, hyperactive and violent. Not sure if this is what you were looking for? Where is Brothermoon?

You have to say pretty please.

Disorganized attachment syndrome will do.

http://www.psychematters.com/papers/fonagy3.htm

You are welcome. Or, your welcome, for those in the middle of the bell curve.
 
  • #199
BrotherMoon said:
You have to say pretty please.

Disorganized attachment syndrome will do.

http://www.psychematters.com/papers/fonagy3.htm

You are welcome. Or, your welcome, for those in the middle of the bell curve.

Interesting paper,thanks!

"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service." Albert Einstein
 
  • #200
sissi said:
Interesting paper,thanks!

"The pioneers of a warless world are the youth who refuse military service." Albert Einstein

Well, at least Einstein was good at math.
 

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