Why deny?

[BOESP]

In Colorado if you are under 10 you are not held as responsible for a crime you commit. I have let my mind wander on the what if rammifications of that law . Not that Burke did anything. What if it was blamed behind closed doors on him. Is that why things were stonewalled and shut down after the Grand Jury and only a pretese made at investigation of the crime? Then I think wouldnt that somehow come out. Nah!! That just Couldnt be!! :slap:

We have the same nagging doubts, CK. :slap:

 

[coloradokares]

Definitely a possibility imo. Does anyone know if the items Pam Paugh retrieved from the Ramsey home showed up in any police report? If yes, was she required to show the items to the police, or did they just take her word for it?

My understanding is they did not even have a complete listing of all items taken and there was not a through search of evey bag, box or zippered items removed. They even bought Aunt Pam McDonalds after her BPD uniformed search and siezure of a trunk and carload of incompletely monitored and cataloged items were removed. That a load of bunk to say that was necessary funeral clothes when it was not even all clothing. JMHO BAH!!

 

[JMO8778]

My understanding is they did not even have a complete listing of all items taken and there was not a through search of evey bag, box or zippered items removed. They even bought Aunt Pam McDonalds after her BPD uniformed search and siezure of a trunk and carload of incompletely monitored and cataloged items were removed. That a load of bunk to say that was necessary funeral clothes when it was not even all clothing. JMHO BAH!!

yes,even though she'd bragged about making her first million to the driver (guess she was still working on it),and also screamed at him to get her gloves off ! what a spoiled brat.

 

[coloradokares]

We have the same nagging doubts, CK. :slap:

At last!! I am not totally nuts! I was ashamed of myself for these thoughts. But things shut down way to quickly without so much as a vote by the Grand Jury. It left us all going what the ..... When we were expecting an indictment. Even the Ramseys were prepared according to their own book to be arrested. Boulder was left shocked and numbed to the core. That is my humble opinion . Its cloudy out here today and so my view of the Flatirons is hazed. That is what I do when I am left feeling totally spent and undone ........ I stare at the Flatirons.

 

[Ames]

Ames, think about this. Patsy said she sent her FAO Schwartz Christmas gifts to be gift-wrapped and sent home by FAO'S's gift-wrapping service. According to Patsy, the size 12 Bloomies were to be a Christmas gift for Patsy's niece in Georgia.

The FAO'S gifts were found wrapped, sitting in the basement, with the ends unwrapped as if someone had peeked inside the packages. We could assume whoever peeked wanted to know what was in them. Patsy said she peeked to find Burke's birthday gift.

It is reasonable to assume, in my view, the size 12s would have been in that group of packages intended for Christmas gifts.

So, are we to believe JonBenet was with Patsy when Patsy peeked and JonBenet threw a fit to keep them for herself. Or, did Patsy just tell JonBenet about them and Patsy peeked to find the panties for JonBenet.

It sounds to me like Patsy had to have two "peeking sessions," one to find the size 12s and one to find Burke's birthday gift. Wonder why she only mentioned one. Or, do we assume she decided not to have that one gift, the panties, wrapped and sent home -- that wouldn't make sense to me but then I've never been to New York. :dance:

I wonder if Patsy, either told JB about the panties...(because JB had a size 6 set just like them)..or JB was with her when she bought them...one or the other, happened...imo. I believe that JB wanted to keep them...I actually believe Patsy about that..but, its the ONLY time that I think that she is telling the truth. I wouldn't think that someone would gift wrap a set of panites..and send them to a relative, I know that they came from Bloomindales...but, I don't care if they were trimmed in gold, I just can't imagine Patsy giving panties as a Christmas present. She may have bought them, intending them just as a surprise gift, or something....but, I don't think that it was a Christmas present...so therefore, I don't think that they were wrapped. I think that she either came home with them, and showed them to JB, or JB was with her when she bought them...and begged her for them, and Patsy gave in. Patsy probably said...JB these are WAY to big for you, they are not your size. And JB probably said...I don't care, mom...I can grow into them". That is what I think happened. I have bought birthday gifts for my children's friends..and they have worried me to death, until I finally gave the present, a toy or something...to them...and had to go out and buy a ANOTHER gift for the birthday child. Its hard for me to tell my kids no...although...I do often. Patsy was probably just like that...she couldn't say NO to JB.

 

[Ames]

If those size 12 Bloomies were actually in the drawer and the police could not find them in their house search, the Ramseys probably hid them somewhere else before the police arrived.

Yep, that would be MY guess. They could have left the house with Auntie Spammy. No one would have EVER KNOWN!!

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Yep, that would be MY guess. They could have left the house with Auntie Spammy. No one would have EVER KNOWN!!

Oh, goodness, no. The reason for Pam being allowed acces to the Ramsey hellhole in the first place was to obtain clothes for the funeral - not only for John, Patsy, and Burke, but also for JonBenet. According to Patsy, Pam had brought three dresses of JB's for Patsy to choose from. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she also brought socks and shoes and oh yes, even underwear for JonBenet, and I doubt the officers on the scene with CAP checked the sizes on any and/or all pairs of underwear she may have brought out.

 

[Ames]

Oh, goodness, no. The reason for Pam being allowed acces to the Ramsey hellhole in the first place was to obtain clothes for the funeral - not only for John, Patsy, and Burke, but also for JonBenet. According to Patsy, Pam had brought three dresses of JB's for Patsy to choose from. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if she also brought socks and shoes and oh yes, even underwear for JonBenet, and I doubt the officers on the scene with CAP checked the sizes on any and/or all pairs of underwear she may have brought out.

There is absolutely NO telling what she took out of that that house. Since when did "funeral clothes" become....passports, baby teeth, photos, golf clubs, stuffed animals, John's Bible, bath robes, etc?? It blows my mind that she got away with that. And the police let her just waltz on in, like she was the Queen of England...

 

[Squishified]

I wish I could have 5 minutes alone with Aunt Pam. I wouldn't hurt her ( I couldn't-she's 3 times my size) but I sure as heck would get some answers from her!!

 

[BOESP]

I wish I could have 5 minutes alone with Aunt Pam. I wouldn't hurt her ( I couldn't-she's 3 times my size) but I sure as heck would get some answers from her!!

Does anyone have an idea how tall Patsy was and her approximate normal weight (not what she weighed during her first bout with cancer)?

I have spent a good deal of time trying to find this information and had no luck.

 

[UKGuy]

I wonder if Patsy, either told JB about the panties...(because JB had a size 6 set just like them)..or JB was with her when she bought them...one or the other, happened...imo. I believe that JB wanted to keep them...I actually believe Patsy about that..but, its the ONLY time that I think that she is telling the truth. I wouldn't think that someone would gift wrap a set of panites..and send them to a relative, I know that they came from Bloomindales...but, I don't care if they were trimmed in gold, I just can't imagine Patsy giving panties as a Christmas present. She may have bought them, intending them just as a surprise gift, or something....but, I don't think that it was a Christmas present...so therefore, I don't think that they were wrapped. I think that she either came home with them, and showed them to JB, or JB was with her when she bought them...and begged her for them, and Patsy gave in. Patsy probably said...JB these are WAY to big for you, they are not your size. And JB probably said...I don't care, mom...I can grow into them". That is what I think happened. I have bought birthday gifts for my children's friends..and they have worried me to death, until I finally gave the present, a toy or something...to them...and had to go out and buy a ANOTHER gift for the birthday child. Its hard for me to tell my kids no...although...I do often. Patsy was probably just like that...she couldn't say NO to JB.

Ames,

I believe that JB wanted to keep them...I actually believe Patsy about that..but, its the ONLY time that I think that she is telling the truth.

Well i do not! I reckon it was fabricated to explain away JonBenet wearing the size-12's. Same with the story about the red-turtleneck, fabricated to explain its discovery in the bathroom. The things Patsy admits too, are usually to help explain away other things, the rest she just forgets.


.

 

[rashomon]

There is absolutely NO telling what she took out of that that house. Since when did "funeral clothes" become....passports, baby teeth, photos, golf clubs, stuffed animals, John's Bible, bath robes, etc?? It blows my mind that she got away with that. And the police let her just waltz on in, like she was the Queen of England...

The word "bath robe" made me jolt. Weren't there blue cotton fibers found on JonBenet's genitals might have come from a washcloth? It's in the Bonita papers. The material of a terrycloth bathrobe would be very similar to a washcloth.

 

[Nuisanceposter]

Ames,


Well i do not! I reckon it was fabricated to explain away JonBenet wearing the size-12's. Same with the story about the red-turtleneck, fabricated to explain its discovery in the bathroom. The things Patsy admits too, are usually to help explain away other things, the rest she just forgets.


.

I have to agree about not believing Patsy.

First, let me point out that JB already had a set of identical underwear in her own size, so it's not that she wanted that design...and why would she want underwear that were so large they would barely stay up and bag down to her knees?

Second, those underwear were supposedly meant for Jenny, and JB already had her own set in the same design. I don't believe JonBenet would have wanted those underwear when keeping them would be depriving her cousin of a Christmas gift, and she already had some that looked exactly the same. JonBenet was known to be a generous child - she may have been spoiled, but she was not selfish. She enjoyed sharing.

Let me ask you this, Ames...if Patsy had those underwear ready for Jenny, and JonBenet wanted them bad enough to ask for them and convince her mother to let her keep them, wouldn't she have started wearing them right away as soon as she was allowed to keep them? Would Patsy have made her wait til Christmas Day to wear those underwear, or would she give them to JB right away? I'm guessing right away - if she's caving and not sending the underwear after getting puppy dog eyes from JB, she's not going to make JB wait to open them, and in her interview, she said she didn't - they were "fair game" as soon as they decided to keep them.

In that regard, isn't it rather odd that the very first night JonBenet ever wore a pair of the underwear she supposedly begged to be able to keep was the same night she ended up dead?

I don't believe she wanted those underwear, I don't believe they were ever in any of her drawers, and I don't believe that she was ever dressed in them while conscious and alive, either. IMO.

 

[Ames]

The word "bath robe" made me jolt. Weren't there blue cotton fibers found on JonBenet's genitals might have come from a washcloth? It's in the Bonita papers. The material of a terrycloth bathrobe would be very similar to a washcloth.

Yep, and John's blue bathrobe was found on the floor of his study. Patsy had NO idea how it got there, saying the he must have dropped it when he got out of the shower.

 

[Ames]

I have to agree about not believing Patsy.

First, let me point out that JB already had a set of identical underwear in her own size, so it's not that she wanted that design...and why would she want underwear that were so large they would barely stay up and bag down to her knees?

Second, those underwear were supposedly meant for Jenny, and JB already had her own set in the same design. I don't believe JonBenet would have wanted those underwear when keeping them would be depriving her cousin of a Christmas gift, and she already had some that looked exactly the same. JonBenet was known to be a generous child - she may have been spoiled, but she was not selfish. She enjoyed sharing.

Let me ask you this, Ames...if Patsy had those underwear ready for Jenny, and JonBenet wanted them bad enough to ask for them and convince her mother to let her keep them, wouldn't she have started wearing them right away as soon as she was allowed to keep them? Would Patsy have made her wait til Christmas Day to wear those underwear, or would she give them to JB right away? I'm guessing right away - if she's caving and not sending the underwear after getting puppy dog eyes from JB, she's not going to make JB wait to open them, and in her interview, she said she didn't - they were "fair game" as soon as they decided to keep them.

In that regard, isn't it rather odd that the very first night JonBenet ever wore a pair of the underwear she supposedly begged to be able to keep was the same night she ended up dead?

I don't believe she wanted those underwear, I don't believe they were ever in any of her drawers, and I don't believe that she was ever dressed in them while conscious and alive, either. IMO.

Why would the housekeeper say that she saw those Size 12's in JB's pantie drawer?? That's the only reason that I suspected that they were in her drawers. Unless the housekeeper lied.

I agree about her not ever being dressed in them either, while conscious or alive.

 

[JMO8778]

Yep, and John's blue bathrobe was found on the floor of his study. Patsy had NO idea how it got there, saying the he must have dropped it when he got out of the shower.

wasn't that where the dictionary was found opened and pointing to the word incest?

 

[Ames]

wasn't that where the dictionary was found opened and pointing to the word incest?

I believe so....not sure. It was in John's study...the bathrobe was, not sure where the dictionary was. Cookie said that John had a very small room off of his bathroom, where he had a desk and a chair...and that the Ramsey's referred to it as John's Study....it is my understanding that he ALSO had one downstairs too, according to the house plans, that was right off of the garage, on the first floor. It is not clear where this bathrobe was dropped, but I am assuming that it was the small study, because Patsy said, that John must have dropped it when he got out of the shower, and heard her scream. IF it was found on the FIRST floor study, now THAT would have been weird. I also find it VERY ironic...that Patsy screams JUST AS JOHN is getting OUT OF THE SHOWER....at the precise moment....so, what are the odds of THAT?? To me...that is just WAY TOO IRONIC. Anyway, getting back to your question....excuse me, I went on a tangent there. I am not sure where the dictionary was found...it COULD have been in the first floor study. Who knows.

 

[JMO8778]

I believe so....not sure. It was in John's study...the bathrobe was, not sure where the dictionary was. Cookie said that John had a very small room off of his bathroom, where he had a desk and a chair...and that the Ramsey's referred to it as John's Study....it is my understanding that he ALSO had one downstairs too, according to the house plans, that was right off of the garage, on the first floor. It is not clear where this bathrobe was dropped, but I am assuming that it was the small study, because Patsy said, that John must have dropped it when he got out of the shower, and heard her scream. IF it was found on the FIRST floor study, now THAT would have been weird. I also find it VERY ironic...that Patsy screams JUST AS JOHN is getting OUT OF THE SHOWER....at the precise moment....so, what are the odds of THAT?? To me...that is just WAY TOO IRONIC. Anyway, getting back to your question....excuse me, I went on a tangent there. I am not sure where the dictionary was found...it COULD have been in the first floor study. Who knows.

yea,how convenient.

 

[Ames]

yea,how convenient.

That's exactly what I thought. She said that John was ALREADY in the shower...and that she went to get ready, put on her makeup and such..and that it took her 30 min. (I will post that portion of her interview...if you would like). Well, okay...John gets in the shower....Patsy goes to get ready, and it takes her 30 min, she heads downstairs to make coffee (which my the way, she never mentions in any of her official interviews..but, DOES mention in a CNN interview..that I posted either here of over at FFJ)....she finds the note, she reads part of it, she runs up to check on JB....she finds her missing....and she screams JUST AS JOHN is getting out of the shower. MAN..that must have been one heck of a long shower.

20 TOM HANEY: Okay. And when you
21 woke up, where was John?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: He was up already.
23 He had gotten up, I think he was in the
24 bathroom.
25 TOM HANEY: And his bathroom --
0014
1 okay.
2 Did you see him or hear him at that
3 time?
4 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't think I saw
5 him. I think I heard his shower on.

 

[DeeDee249]

I have to agree about not believing Patsy.

First, let me point out that JB already had a set of identical underwear in her own size, so it's not that she wanted that design...and why would she want underwear that were so large they would barely stay up and bag down to her knees?
I don't believe she wanted those underwear, I don't believe they were ever in any of her drawers, and I don't believe that she was ever dressed in them while conscious and alive, either. IMO.

I also agree. The FAO Schwartz packages were opened in the basement when the size 12's were found. I think LHP may have seen the smaller Bloomies panties that actually belonged to JBR in her drawers. Even if she was correct, the Wednesday panties found on JBR were NEW and UNWORN. With drawersful of correct sizes availalble, it is STILL suspicious that she was found wearing brand-new panties that didn't fit. And remember the police claim they did not find the rest of the size 12 panties, so they were not in her drawers. Much later, the Rs sent the panties along to LE. (if they were the same ones) and it has never been stated , to my knowledge, if the set was missing the Wednesday pair.