Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

  • She was abducted

    Votes: 187 36.7%
  • She wandered off and disappeared

    Votes: 14 2.8%
  • She was overdosed on sedatives; parents covered it up

    Votes: 168 33.0%
  • She met with an accident; parents covered it up

    Votes: 65 12.8%
  • One of her parents was violent to her and killed her

    Votes: 63 12.4%
  • Any other reason Madeleine went missing

    Votes: 12 2.4%

  • Total voters
    509
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There has never been any proof of the fund being used to cover legal expenses in libel trials or on the mccanns own legal expenses. The fund is a not for profit comapny (it would be illegal in england for it to become a charity), with no shareholders etc.

If something is held to be libelous then it is untrue, so stopping the flow of untrue information is not unhelpful. If people feel they can prove their claims then they have nothing to worry about when it comes to being accused of libel. The justice system that decides if something is untrue or nto is the same one that decides guilt of murder etc, so what is the problem?
One reason why the Mccanns have had to take these actions themselves is because this occurred in Portugal they are not protected by contempt of court laws like they would have been had madeleine disappeared in the UK. If she had disappeared in the UK the papers would have likely been held for contempt of court for printing the material they did i.e police leaks. This is what happened with Joanna Yeates landlord when he was questione dby the police on suspicion fo her murder. Not only did he win libel payouts and was a participant in the leveson inquiry the papers were found guilty of contempt of court. In the Uk there are very strict rules about what can and cannot be printed about a person in this situation.

carter-ruck were not paid by the fund and no proof has been shown to demonstrate that lawyers have been employed for anything other than the funds own legal needs -i.e setting it up.

But this particular Mark warner resort did not have the listening service because the resort was spread around the village so would take too long for a nanny to do a circuit. But they offered it at most other resorts which were more campus style. So you can see why if some of the group had used it in Greece they would think running their own listening service was OK, why would it be OK in greece but not in PDl, a sleepy little village?

I think the way people have been trying to make money from the disappearence is low. There is not one of them with any credibility (convicted criminal etc), yet there they are breaking into private property, digging up sacred areas, harressing the mccanns all on the back of nothing. What did they plan to do if they actually dug up a body - they would already have contaminated the scene and made any evidence found be held in doubt? They would ahve got into trouble with the police if they got caught, one cannot go digging up public land, or go onto private property without permission.
If these people truely believe they have information then they should go to the police. In fairness bennett has apparently done this, but the british police have said they believe it was a stranger abduction and that there is a chance madeleine is still alive.

I think the reason Madeleine was targeted was simply the position of the flat, back in 2007 it was dimly lit (as was the surrounding area) surrounded by foliage, and was the nearest flat to the street. Plus like the others the window and back door backed onto an empty car park. Someone could have come in either the window (which could be opened from the outside, reporters got caught trying to break in this way apparently), or even the patio doors. It was an area full of strangers, many of them carrying children back from the creche, who would normally notice one more. I also do not think it can be discounted someone had managed to get hold of keys. these places have numerous people staying in them, numerous people working on them requiring master keys, it is easy for one to get misplaced, illegally copied etc. I wonder if that was ever looked in to.

There was no need to look into master keys, as the McCanns left the doors unlocked.

PDL was an extremely quiet, sleepy fishing town. Cars were unusual and
largely unnecessary. At that time of the evening, a car starting up would have alerted many sleeping tourists, locals, and strolling passers by.

People seem to believe that Goncalo Amaral is the only member of the Portugese LE. He is not, and the fact is often overlooked that the hunt for Madeleine was the most intense, expensive and thorough in Portugese history. An area of 200 square km was checked and rechecked, by dogs, foot patrol, helicopter, scanner, sea. No expense was spared. Borders were checked. Passports were checked. Cars were searched. RSO's were searched. They pulled apart Robert Murat's life from top to bottom. Millions of dollars and man hours were expended (some would say wasted) in the search for this little girl. They were not some bumbling bunch of fools tripping over one another and their own shoelaces.

Further, British police were involved almost from ground zero. British Police who closely worked with the PDJ, and were summarily dismissed and sent home in disgrace by their own government once they themselves began to believe an "abduction" was the LEAST likely explanation for Madeleine's disappearance.

The PDL suffered British governmental pressure from day one in this case. At no stage were they allowed to investigate, question, form theories, and follow those theories through to their natural conclusion of arrest and prosecution.

The Fund has absolutely paid for a staggering list of "professionals" who have individually and collectively profitted from Madeleine's disappearance. If you or I lost our child, we would naturally receive donations from well wishers. We would probably set up a bank account for those, and appoint trustees to administer those accounts, to carefully and transparently use them ONLY to find our child. This has not happened with the McCanns, who chose to set up a private company shrouded in secrecy, appoint friends and relatives to the board of directors, make themselves and their friends families and supporters beneficiaries. They could easily have achieved tax free status as a charity but that would mean they would have to have transparancy.

Transparency is the enemy of the McCann.
 
If something is held to be libelous then it is untrue, .

You keep saying Goncalo's book is untrue.

This implies you know the truth, which implies you know what happened to Madeleine.

No one knows what happened to Madeleine, so you cannot claim to know the truth.
 
There was no need to look into master keys, as the McCanns left the doors unlocked.

Only the patio door. The front door had a double lock system, one of which locks automatically.

PDL was an extremely quiet, sleepy fishing town. Cars were unusual and
largely unnecessary. At that time of the evening, a car starting up would have alerted many sleeping tourists, locals, and strolling passers by.

Not true, it is a small village, but it is unusual in Europe for people in villages not to have cars. In fact it is more common for people in cicites not to have cars as there is so much public transport. It was also only between nine and ten when madeleine is believed ot have been taken so few people woudl be sleeping, and if they were a car is not an unusual thing to hear. Plus the flat fronted on to a car park.

People seem to believe that Goncalo Amaral is the only member of the Portugese LE. He is not, and the fact is often overlooked that the hunt for Madeleine was the most intense, expensive and thorough in Portugese history. An area of 200 square km was checked and rechecked, by dogs, foot patrol, helicopter, scanner, sea. No expense was spared. Borders were checked. Passports were checked. Cars were searched. RSO's were searched. They pulled apart Robert Murat's life from top to bottom. Millions of dollars and man hours were expended (some would say wasted) in the search for this little girl. They were not some bumbling bunch of fools tripping over one another and their own shoelaces.

It wa sonly the local PJ involved. Now there is a review it is being done out of area. I am not sure about helicopters, but there is no record of sea scans being done, and borders were not checked. In fairness this is not normal practice in the EU, despite the ease with which you can cross borders. The criticisim the PJ got for not rushing to borders was unfair, and down to british people forgeting how easy it is to cross borders in the EU. All countries except Ireland and the UK in the EU are also in Schengen, which means that they do not need passports to cross the border, you just drive over the border. And in all EU countries you can just use a national identity card anyway. However because the UK is not in schengen, does not really use id cards, and is an island with only one way to cross the border by car, people from the Uk are much more used to borders being a hassle and everyone being id-ed and checked.

Further, British police were involved almost from ground zero. British Police who closely worked with the PDJ, and were summarily dismissed and sent home in disgrace by their own government once they themselves began to believe an "abduction" was the LEAST likely explanation for Madeleine's disappearance.

It is not true they were sent home in disgrace. the british police proved a liason officer to help with the FSS, and family liason officers to help the mccanns as is normal. The FSS are not part of the police, and the dogs were brought in with help from the police. The british government did not send them home in disgrace - do you have any primary sources for this, where is the evidence of your claim?

The PDL suffered British governmental pressure from day one in this case. At no stage were they allowed to investigate, question, form theories, and follow those theories through to their natural conclusion of arrest and prosecution.

Do you have any evidence of this, it is rather a wild accusation.

The Fund has absolutely paid for a staggering list of "professionals" who have individually and collectively profitted from Madeleine's disappearance. If you or I lost our child, we would naturally receive donations from well wishers. We would probably set up a bank account for those, and appoint trustees to administer those accounts, to carefully and transparently use them ONLY to find our child. This has not happened with the McCanns, who chose to set up a private company shrouded in secrecy, appoint friends and relatives to the board of directors, make themselves and their friends families and supporters beneficiaries. They could easily have achieved tax free status as a charity but that would mean they would have to have transparancy.

No they could not have acheived charity status. It would have broken the law. It is totally against the law in England and Wales for a fund set up to help just one person become a charity. In the Uk if you want trustees to manage money and actually spend it rather than just invest and manage it, you need to set up either a company or charity. In the case of one individuel you would need a company. It is a complete and utter fabrication to suggest the law could have been broken and them awarded charity status, it goes against the 2006 charity act, and the charit commissions own rules. In these circumstances the charity commission advises to set up a NFP comapny like the mccanns did. remember they were under no legal obligation to donate the compensation and book royalties to the fund, the could have kept it themselves. They were given over a millon in donations very quickly, it would have been thought of as more suspicious if they had just put it in a bank. To suggest they should have done anything other than set up a NFP company demonstrates a lack of knowledge of english law when it comes to trusts and charities (also remember when you hear the word trust in a title in england it is often just a charity name, trusts are a very different thing. A trust would have meant that the money could not have been spent on things lthat were not considered financial investments, and it would have meant that any money in it belonged to the mccanns or madeleine, whereas in the case of a NFP company it belongs to the company and its decisions have to be agreed by a large group, also under its legally binding constitution any mney left after madeleine is found will be used to turn the company into a gneral missing children's charity.
Also NFP companies, and charities have equal transparency in the UK. In fact charities are nto that transparent, and certainly do not give out breakdowns of individuel expenses. They are also allowed to invest money which the fund has not done according to its accounts.
As the fund was set up to look for madeleine it did rather have to fund private investigators.
 
You keep saying Goncalo's book is untrue.

This implies you know the truth, which implies you know what happened to Madeleine.

No one knows what happened to Madeleine, so you cannot claim to know the truth.

If Portuguese libel law is like England's, then the onus is on Amaral to prove his claims (and if it is like England, claiming it is just his opinion is not going to be a defence).
But Amaral certainly made an arguement for the Mccanns' guilt based on his own incorrect (and incredibly thick) interpretation of the FSS results, so it is correct to say his implication this DNA is likely to be Madeleine's are untrue.
 
What is the problem Badhorise,
Amaral has interpreted the DNA results incorrectly. he has tried to claim that finding 15 out of madeleine's 19 different components is indicitive of it being her DNA, but he either ignores or does not realise that even if all 19 of her comonents were found it is not significant as there was no sequence identified, the compents were found in a mix from three to five people so they can not even tell if these compoents came from 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 different people and they were found in a place her family used, and most importantly all 19 of madeleines compoents will be found in the DNA of her parents, and all 19 will also be found in the DNA of all four grandparents, as well as a significant amount in her siblings and other relatives. There is no way to tell if those components came from madeleine, gerry, kate, etc, but there are witnesses that state they saw geryy, kate, the twins, other family members use the car, and not one that has come forward to say they saw madeleine there. When one reads Amaral's "interpretation" it is obvious he is is either trying to mislead people or honestly does not know what he is talking about and makes himself look foolish.
 
i think it will go on until madeleine is found to be honest. Even then I will not be surprised if it continues. I remember there was some guy in Austria who was convinced the mother of natasha Kamplusch (unsure of spelling) was involved in her disappearence, and claimed abuse at her home etc. Even after Natasha escaped and her abducter was identified, and declared she had never been abused by her parents, and only the abducter was involved, he still carried on claiming the mother was in it.
 
It's all fairly irrelevant to me.

On previous evenings the children were left to cry for over an hour. It was only on the last night of the holiday that the "half hourly" regime was claimed to have been employed...every other night they were left to cry alone.

Really? Why did they change it just for that night?
 
Really? Why did they change it just for that night?

The Mccanns and their friends said they checked the childen every night according to their statements. Gerry had said he normally just listened, but on that night had popped his head round the door as he had noticed the door further ajar, and wanted to check they were still asleep. kate had said that madeleine had said her and one of the twins had been crying the night before, but Kate has always said she checked them at least every half an hour that night and they were always asleep.
 
The Mccanns and their friends said they checked the childen every night according to their statements. Gerry had said he normally just listened, but on that night had popped his head round the door as he had noticed the door further ajar, and wanted to check they were still asleep. kate had said that madeleine had said her and one of the twins had been crying the night before, but Kate has always said she checked them at least every half an hour that night and they were always asleep.

If they said it, it must be true...?
 
Really? Why did they change it just for that night?


The alleged reason for the alleged change was Madeleine asking her parents why they didn't come when she and her baby brother cried for an hour and a half, the evening before.

That would be considered neglect, in Australia.
 
The alleged reason for the alleged change was Madeleine asking her parents why they didn't come when she and her baby brother cried for an hour and a half, the evening before.

That would be considered neglect, in Australia.


The Mccanns have never said that, and no-one has ever stated Madeleine and her sibling had cried for an hour an a half. The mccanns their holiday companions, Tapas staff all say people were checking on the children with the exception of the couple with the monitor.

and I hope you are not saying Australia's laws are superior to the EU's.
 
The Mccanns have never said that, and no-one has ever stated Madeleine and her sibling had cried for an hour an a half. The mccanns their holiday companions, Tapas staff all say people were checking on the children with the exception of the couple with the monitor.

and I hope you are not saying Australia's laws are superior to the EU's.

Your words. :doh:

I just stated they were different.

:moo:
 
JMO, if the laws in one country allow babies to be left alone and another country requires that they are taken care of it's evident which laws are superior.
 
It's irrelevant anyway...

I doubt they left their passports or cameras lying around like that.

You know, valuables.

:banghead:
 
This drives me round the bend. It doesn't really matter what UK laws are regarding child neglect since Maddie didn't disappear from the UK but - for the record - we have very broad child neglect legislation simply stating if a child is left alone and placed at risk a parent can be charged.

There are no statuatory age limits, distance requirements, time intervals, or anything of the like. It is based primarily on a case by case basis. Would the McCann's have been charged had this occurred in the UK? None of us will ever know. But to say it wasn't legally neglect is wrong too.

As I think we all know by now the NSPCC very emphatically states it is never recommended you leave a baby or toddler home alone - not even for a few minutes, not even if sleeping.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-ad...arents/home-alone/home-alone-pdf_wdf90656.pdf
 
This drives me round the bend. It doesn't really matter what UK laws are regarding child neglect since Maddie didn't disappear from the UK but - for the record - we have very broad child neglect legislation simply stating if a child is left alone and placed at risk a parent can be charged.

There are no statuatory age limits, distance requirements, time intervals, or anything of the like. It is based primarily on a case by case basis. Would the McCann's have been charged had this occurred in the UK? None of us will ever know. But to say it wasn't legally neglect is wrong too.

As I think we all know by now the NSPCC very emphatically states it is never recommended you leave a baby or toddler home alone - not even for a few minutes, not even if sleeping.
http://www.nspcc.org.uk/help-and-ad...arents/home-alone/home-alone-pdf_wdf90656.pdf


You are absolutely correct - the law in this regards is pretty broad and is down each case and to the pubilc prosecution service to go to court or not.

The UK authorities could still have charged the Mccanns for neglect as Madeleine is a UK citizen and does still have rights even abroad.

They didnt and anything else now is just opinion .

I still do not understand why people who believe that the Mccanns are involved get worked up about child care arrangements - I mean if they disposed of the body then the child care is neither here nor there ,
 
Why? Even if Madeleine was dead and they disposed of the body there were still two equally important living children that were left alone.
 
Why? Even if Madeleine was dead and they disposed of the body there were still two equally important living children that were left alone.

True, but the fact they were capable of disposing of their first born, would rather make questions about their parenting a moot point. If they were involve din Madeleine's disappearence then they are bad parents and the fact they left their children is not adding much to this (its a bit like argueing for ages about whether rosemary west was right to leave her child unattended whilst she murdered the another one), if they are innocent then yes they made a mistakeand they are most certainly paying for their decision now, but how is focusing on it and not the abducter going to find madeleine ?
 
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