Why did Madeleine 'go missing'?

[brit1981]

I am not so sure I agree, the police have had to look at all the evidence, so by saying it was a stranger abduction they have effectively eliminated non-strangers. But although they can say that it was not someone she knew, but a stranger, that still leaves a lot of potential abductors. It may be that they can never identify who did it, but still remain in a position to eliminate specific people. I mean the police have said it was a stranger, but they have not come out and listed all people in the area and declared that they have not eliminated them, as they actually have to have a reason to suspect someone, not just the fact they have not been able to eliminate them. So i think the fact the police have eliminated non-strangers from he investigation means it is fair to consider strangers, but obviously that is difficult for us to do if we have no idea who lived in the area. We could just pick names at random, and tear them to bits, but not be in a position to eliminate them or prove they did it as we are not the police and do not have access to all the information or the powers to obtain relevant infomation.

 

[fabgod]

http://content.met.police.uk/News/D...nn-is-still-alive/1400008147005/1257246745756


The official Metropolitan Police statement

 

[brit1981]

Andy Redwood has been interviewed publicly and has stated they believe it was a stranger abduction. I cannot link to videos right now, but google his name and interviews and you should come up with the televised interviews that he did.

I also wish people (I mean in general I do not recall anything nasty on this site about him) would leave Murat alone, he was cleared as well, yet people are still hounding him and claiming he could be involved with the McCanns (I have never seen anything about them knowing each other previously). Its just spiteful, and not doing anything to help madeleine. I mean if they are innocent, then innocent people are being ripped apart at their most vunerable time, if any of them are guilty the stuff put about had ensured that no trial would ever go ahead as it would breach the right to a fair trial as it would have risked prejudicing the trial. All in all not a good result for madeleine.

 

[fabgod]

Until the police can tell me which stranger abducted Madeleine I believe it dismissive to preclude other possibilities but that's just me.

Sorry to quote you again Britskate, but your inclusion of the word believe got me thinking.
Going back over the Andy Redwood statements to various press, he does state he believes quite a lot, he says he believes it was a stranger abduction, he believes Madeleine could be alive and so on.

He at no point states it as fact for obvious reasons, if it was fact, he would have something tangible to work with.
Belief is great and I hope that his beliefs are turned into fact, but I believe that when I die, it wont all stop, I will move on to somewhere else - the reason for that belief?
nothing, just hope!
I hope that isnt what Andy Redwood is basing his beliefs on, I really do, the Portuguese Authorities do not seem to share his belief and they were the ones on the ground from the start.

 

[brit1981]

he did say in the same interviews that he was basing this on the evidence in the case. The Portuguese have said there is nothing to suggest the parents did it as well and they dropped their aguido status at the same time as they dropped Murat's aguido status. The police also never say something as fact, they always say something like "we believe" etc so I do not think the use of the word is significant in that way. A belief does not have to be based on hope and faith alone.

Going back to the Portuguese, someone on here has posted quotes from amaral's book, and in these it is obvious he is pinning a lot of his belief on his own misunderstanding of genetics, so it is easy to understand why when new team came in they found there was nothing to warrent keeping the parents as aguidos. I also never got why Murat was made an aguido in the first place (the question of whether he was there that night was never put to anyone until after he was made an aguido), a suspicion from a journalist seems a bit of a weak reason.

 

[fabgod]

Transcription from The TV programme "Daybreak"
Dann Lobb and Kate Garraway are presenters
Andy Redwood is heading up Operation Grange

"Dan Lobb:

Do you believe she is still alive?

Redwood:

Yes I do.

Dan Lobb:

Why?

Redwood:

I believe she’s still alive because, at the beginning of this case…it’s a huge privilege for us at the Metropolitan Police to be part of this investigation…er, investigation review. Is that we came with a completely open mind.


We were untouched by anything that’s gone before, and, as part of that, two key elements of it is to go: 1 Madeleine is alive and the other is, sadly she’s not...and in relation to her being alive, yes, there is a real possibility that she’s alive

Kate Garraway:

So what are the things that make you think that…because I think you know we’re all clinging to the hope, aren’t we?

Dan Lobb:

Yeah. I mean it’s kind of hard evidence but there is still going to be hope - as long as she’s not found dead

Redwood:

Yes, I mean, you know, we have conducted a forensic analysis of the timeline, and there is clearly opportunity there - for Madeleine McCann to have been removed from that apartment alive - and it is our belief, as experienced investigators - on the evidence, that, um that you know, that that, that is as a criminal act - and that has been, you know, undertaken by by a stranger, and so from that - she’s… and there are other cases around the world, as you know where, many years later, people have been taken and been found alive"


So, Madeleine is alive because its a huge privilege and we have an open mind also we have 2 key elements, 1 she is alive and 2 sadly she is not?
I hope the Portuguese review is going a little better
Full of confidence about that then!

 

[Donjeta]

Well, he's covering all the bases there. Either Madeleine is alive, or she is not.

I could have told them that, and without an expensive review.

I don't hear him saying that it was definitely a stranger abduction, it sounds to me like he's saying that there was opportunity for a stranger abduction to have occurred. We already knew that too. The children were alone in an unlocked apartment for quite some time. Of course there was opportunity. Opportunity was served on a platter.

 

[brit1981]

If you watch the investigation he is not saying he believes she is alive because it is a privilege to work on the case, that is sort of said as an aside. He is saying they started the investigation off by looking at both possibilities, and as they have gone along reviewing the evidence have concluded that there is a real possibility that she is still alive. I do not think it is odd that they came into the review with fresh eyes and decided not to discount anything before they even started. Would people have preferred it if they said "well, we came into the review and decided to discount the possibility she was alive/dead before actually looking at any evidence)? I do not see why people are upset that after spending over a year reviewing the evidence scotland yard are saying there is still a real possibility the little girl may still be alive. Surely it is good that so far no evidence has come to light that means a three year old died.
You can also see in the interview that he says their belief is that it is a criminal act by a stranger.

 

[Donjeta]

No one wants Madeleine dead but it is a little upsetting to me if the police investigation has concluded that Madeleine is either alive or dead because it means they don't know zip. If she is dead they aren't any closer to finding out what happened and if she is alive she's been with criminals far too long and the police is no closer to finding her. Knowing if she is alive or dead would be a step forward solving the case.

 

[BritsKate]

No one wants Madeleine dead but it is a little upsetting to me if the police investigation has concluded that Madeleine is either alive or dead because it means they don't know zip. If she is dead they aren't any closer to finding out what happened and if she is alive she's been with criminals far too long and the police is no closer to finding her. Knowing if she is alive or dead would be a step forward solving the case.

Unfortunately this is where I'm leaning as well. I really don't believe they have the evidence to prove her alive or deceased - and to make a subsequent arrest. I think we'd see a lot more action if that were the case. MOO

 

[fabgod]

Unfortunately this is where I'm leaning as well. I really don't believe they have the evidence to prove her alive or deceased - and to make a subsequent arrest. I think we'd see a lot more action if that were the case. MOO

fantastic quote in your signature, by the way :rocker:

 

[SapphireSteel]

Saying she may be alive is a nonsense.

In the absence of her body, and knowledge of what happened to her, of course she "may" be alive!

It is a completely meaningless quote somehow being leapt upon as "proof" <modsnip>.

 

[fabgod]

Saying she may be alive is a nonsense.

In the absence of her body, and knowledge of what happened to her, of course she "may" be alive!

It is a completely meaningless quote somehow being leapt upon as "proof" <modsnip>.

Welcome back sapphire!

 

[Tabs1]

I agree that the parents may have given Madeleine something like Calpol in the hope that she would sleep through the evening. Maybe she woke up, felt groggy, and wandered out of the apartment and was then picked up by someone with less than kind intentions?

For those who believe Kate and Gerry were actively involved with their daughter's disappearance - when do you think they did all this...? And if they were guilty, why would then then not allow the investigation to quietly 'fade' and along with it, suspicion of them? Why would they ensure they remained in the media spotlight IF they are the ones who disposed of their daughter's body?

Surely logic points to abduction by a stranger? After all, it was common knowledge that all of the group left their children alone for hours at a time while they had dinner.

They followed the same routine every evening.

 

[OneLove]

LE often makes statements that are not true because it is in the best interest of the investigation. We've seen that a lot in cases here at Websleuths. Many arrests in crimes like this are not made until years after the crime occurred and there is much going on behind the scenes in the meantime. I totally understand the reasons for not being completely forthcoming with the public at large AND with anyone who may have been involved in the crime. That's why I'm not putting much stock in any statements made at this time.

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

I agree that the parents may have given Madeleine something like Calpol in the hope that she would sleep through the evening. Maybe she woke up, felt groggy, and wandered out of the apartment and was then picked up by someone with less than kind intentions?

For those who believe Kate and Gerry were actively involved with their daughter's disappearance - when do you think they did all this...? And if they were guilty, why would then then not allow the investigation to quietly 'fade' and along with it, suspicion of them? Why would they ensure they remained in the media spotlight IF they are the ones who disposed of their daughter's body?

Surely logic points to abduction by a stranger? After all, it was common knowledge that all of the group left their children alone for hours at a time while they had dinner.

They followed the same routine every evening.

portuguese police think the parents know what happened to MM,she was found dead in that appartment and GM carried the body while that irish family saw him, police never said MC´s killed her, and there´s no proof they knew it, unfortunately

 

[brit1981]

The Pj have said they do not believe the parents are involved, and even when amaral was on the case the PJ dismissed the sighting of the irish family as being gerry as several witnesses put him elsewhere and not one person in the irish family identified gerry. Instead one of the irish family said several months after the sighting that it was dark and he did not have his glasses and never saw the mans face, but that by a mannerism it could have been gerry, but he could not say for certain.

I think it is wrong to claim scotland yard are lying, they would not be able to do this in the UK.
Scotland yard say it was a criminal act by a stranger and I have never seen anything in the files to contradict this. The problem is a lot of rubbish has been spouted out on the internet and then gets repeated as the basis of fact i.e the missng blue tenis bag is not mentioned anywhere but forums and only by thos eunconnected to the case who cannot claim to have insider knowledge, the same goes for the claim that the irish family identified gerry and the PJ belive they saw gerry when in fact the actual police files state the police discounted the irish family sighting, and state the irish family never actually identified the man as being gerry.

 

[SapphireSteel]

The Pj have said they do not believe the parents are involved, and even when amaral was on the case the PJ dismissed the sighting of the irish family as being gerry as several witnesses put him elsewhere and not one person in the irish family identified gerry. Instead one of the irish family said several months after the sighting that it was dark and he did not have his glasses and never saw the mans face, but that by a mannerism it could have been gerry, but he could not say for certain.

I think it is wrong to claim scotland yard are lying, they would not be able to do this in the UK.
Scotland yard say it was a criminal act by a stranger and I have never seen anything in the files to contradict this. The problem is a lot of rubbish has been spouted out on the internet and then gets repeated as the basis of fact i.e the missng blue tenis bag is not mentioned anywhere but forums and only by thos eunconnected to the case who cannot claim to have insider knowledge, the same goes for the claim that the irish family identified gerry and the PJ belive they saw gerry when in fact the actual police files state the police discounted the irish family sighting, and state the irish family never actually identified the man as being gerry.

What missing blue tennis bag? :waitasec:

 

[Donjeta]

The problem is a lot of rubbish has been spouted out on the internet and then gets repeated as the basis of fact i.e the missng blue tenis bag is not mentioned anywhere but forums

I can't say if there was a blue bag or not but it is not true that it is not mentioned anywhere but forums.

It was reported by the Sun, and a tv programme on the Sky News, apparently (haven't seen it).

Maddie: Mystery of 'lost' bag

VERONICA LORRAINE
in Praia da Luz
Last Updated: 24th December 2007

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...e-Mystery-of-lost-blue-bag.html#ixzz267U5LFuE
A MISSING blue tennis bag could hold the key to Madeleine McCann&#8217;s disappearance, a TV documentary will claim tonight.

The bag &#8212; big enough to carry a small child &#8212; belonged to Maddie&#8217;s dad Gerry, the programme says.

Read more: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...e-Mystery-of-lost-blue-bag.html#ixzz267U8EUo7


Can't really blame the bloggers for repeating something that's been in the media imo.


It looks like it was also reported in Daily Mail although I can't find the original link, this is just a copy.
http://truthformadeleine.com/2007/1...could-have-been-used-to-carry-madeleine-away/

 

[BritsKate]

I really do have a problem with the theory that the Met is seemingly infallible. If that were true they wouldn't have shelled out over £200k to Mark Lewis recently. That's without even delving into the relatively recent investigations into allegations of corruption and racism. Or Simon Harwood. Or, even, Tia Sharp.

Those in law enforcement are but human and as such just as prone to mistakes, erroneous conclusions, emotion and fallibility as the rest of us.

Incidentally, complaints made to the IPCC (Independent Police Complaints Commission) have nearly quadrupled in 5 years as well. FWIW