Why is Adam Baker not in jail?

[lauriej]

If your link goes "*************", it means that site is not allowed on WS. FYI.

..thank you-----( and like an idiot i tried 3 times ) ..my apologies, i knew that too.

 

[lauriej]

Lauriej, that was probably my comment. I was referring to the ??? where it seemed you may have had trouble with Liz' accent, or something similar from recollection. I offered to go over the video and update your transcript if anyone wanted me to; but please note stated I felt it would probably make no difference to the overall gist of it. Your transcriptions are a terrific benefit to everyone at WS, Please do not misinterpret my intentions. I simply understand that many people find Australian accents fairly challenging.

..oh no--not at all. i did see that you had offered to help , and then the thread closed ----i would have gladly accepted your update.

..i was also pointing out that the youtube clip does "cut out" --and misses some things that were in the original---you are right though-----the 'gist' of it remains.

( and yes, i do admit------a couple of the words by liz , did give me some (huh? moments........note to self-----ask an "aussie" next time..)

-------i would like to know what this one (roots?) actually is?----- mrs.G. ??

Liz: it is a fact that Zahra was dismembered and that is horrifying. Do you have any roots (?) for that?

Adam: it’s um (pause) not something that i like to think about. Ih, ih, it , makes me sick. That somebody could do that.

 

[Flakes]

..oh no--not at all. i did see that you had offered to help , and then the thread closed ----i would have gladly accepted your update.

..i was also pointing out that the youtube clip does "cut out" --and misses some things that were in the original---you are right though-----the 'gist' of it remains.

( and yes, i do admit------a couple of the words by liz , did give me some (huh? moments........note to self-----ask an "aussie" next time..)

-------i would like to know what this one (roots?) actually is?----- mrs.G. ??

Liz: it is a fact that Zahra was dismembered and that is horrifying. Do you have any roots (?) for that?

Adam: it’s um (pause) not something that i like to think about. Ih, ih, it , makes me sick. That somebody could do that.

Ahahaha I think you will have a jolly little laugh with me, lauriej

Liz says to Adam: "it is a fact that Zahra was dismembered and that is horrifying. Do you have any words for that?"

The reason it makes me laugh so much is this, and hopefully it will cheer you up a little through all this darkness.
– The word "roots" in American lingo generally means one's derivation (ancestry), or barracking for one's team, and presumably tree roots in the soil;
– "roots" in Australian lingo means one's derivation (ancestry), tree roots in the soil, and is slang for sexual intercourse! It NEVER means barracking or supporting your team.
So, you can imagine how much Australians, New Zealanders, and others chuckle to themselves when we hear an American use the expression "root for the team" as yep, to us that means having sex with the team!

I could also explain the expression "A Wombat eats roots shoots and leaves" but I'll let you work that one out

 

[NancyA]

Gotcha, Tricia.

Unfortunately, for me, following the rules is going to have to come via avoiding the topic altogether. I'll let the grown-ups carry on the AB discussion without me.

Have to agree. Yesterday was my first time posting in a long while after the news broke about the charges, the autopsy and DSS reports. I have been following the case but, since I lost my own father around the holidays, I haven't had the emotional 'stomach' to get involved in the discussions (or involved in much of anything really) partly because I didn't want delve too deeply into persons who don't deserve, IMO, to share with my own father, a truly good, loving embodiment of the word, the appellation 'Dad'.

I'll just say this one thing before I take myself out of here for another posting hiatus, the thing that convinced me of Casey Anthony's guilt in the death of her daughter was the fact she waited THIRTY ONE days to report her missing. It could have been 31 minutes and alarm bells would have been ringing so this for me is exactly the same thing. In my gut I've known all along but now I have it confirmed - to my own satisfaction that is - that for FIFTEEN days AB 'did not know' his daughter was missing. FIFTEEN days.

Apologies if my post oversteps the bounds outlined by Tricia, I totally respect her position in this and I tried to keep a lid on my feelings, but, for myself, I'm too emotionally fragile and sickened to be able to trust myself to discuss AB in a detached and civil manner at present.

 

[WhyaDuck?]

This thread is about the change in policy reflecting the new case developments.

Please move case discussion to relevant threads, ie:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129279"]Adam Baker's Timeline. - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]


[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129280"]Did Adam Baker know about the abuse of his daughter? Was he fooled just like CPS? - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[believe09]

I will say this much-Adam needs to edit his attorney's statements. JMO. I dont think for one second it is appropriate to imply, even slightly, that this is a day of jubilation for Adam since LE made their statement. The jury of public opinion will continue to hold him guilty of failing his child, fair or unfair as that may be....let's face it his statements do not line up with the facts. He knows why they dont, and I cannot imagine knowing why and knowing what happened at the end of the day to his child. I both feel for him and am incredibly outraged at his actions simply because it is very hard for me to understand why he did not advocate for his child. Which is just my impression-that he did not advocate for her. And he has to live with that, so perhaps that is punishment enough.

Moving from the wrong thread...

 

[pip]

I am hoping that AB is only temporarily on the 'free and clear' list while LE continues their investigation. I feel he was more than aware of the abuse and his stories have never jived. It will be a sad day for justice if this man walks free. Whether or not he had anything to do with her death or dismemberment (respectfully withholding comments on these matters), he is still complicit. He lived there, he knew. JMO. Plain and simple.

 

[Aedrys]

I honestly don't know the answer to that. I find his affect very, um, interesting. I think he is the sort of male who lets the women in his life handle the woman stuff. His mother, Karen Baker assisted him with raising Zahra while in Australia. I get the impression that he simply wasn't a very "hands on" sort of father but rather, left it all up to the female in the household.

It would not surprise me one bit if that tact continued once he arrived here stateside.

Should he have been more involved? I think so.

Does it mean he knew of the abuse and was complicit in allowing it to go on? I really have not formed an opinion on that yet. Or I should say I form an opinion daily on that and then change it the next.

ETA I do think, in light of CPS contact summary released today, that he has no excuse for not being on notice that at least some people had serious concerns. Serious enough to report them. Reports were made on numerous occassions. Any parent who I can respect would have their radar up after one.

If he was gullible enough to believe that all those seperate reports were just made out of sour grapes from peple who hated EB then he is gullible indeed. Especially since we also know that there were a number of LE involed domestic reports so, the honeymoon was definately over if all the screaming and brawling the Bakers were doing at their address previous to 21st are any indication.

I don't think he's gullible. I think he truly believes that he can get away with this because women are the ones to raise a child. He truly believes he didn't have to check in on Zahra and make sure she was okay. He truly believes health and welfare are left up to the woman, so that makes him innocent because he did the dad thing and worked and brought home the bacon. I'm guessing his mummy did everything for him as a child while his father worked and was never home and never really checked up on him. I think Adam truly believes he is not responsible, and EB getting a second degree murder charge plus no charge for him completely validates that for him. No wonder he was jumping up and down.

I sincerely hope that he is held accountable in some way, or that will be a new defense for deadbeat dads, well, the woman was supposed to take care of the kid, not me. I hate to see a deadbeat dad jubilant that he's not being charge in his daughter's horrendous death. That is just despicable to me. He does not get to slide because of his beliefs on what dads are supposed to do. That is just wrong on so many moral levels. He really should have left Zahra in OZ either with her bio mum or his mother because he couldn't be bothered to have any hand in actually raising her.

I do believe he deceived CPS, and that he is now thinking he's completely going to get away with something. It hurts my heart to think he was involved in her death or God forbid the dismemberment; I really don't want to believe that anyone would dismember their own flesh and blood. At the very least, he should be held accountable for letting this abuse happen in the first place. He should not walk away scot free.

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

<<<<snipped article for purpose>>>>>


Monday afternoon, he and his mother heard the news and they were jumping up and down, they were very happy and hugging their attorneys and shaking hands, but all that was tempered by the fact that 10-year-old Zahra is gone.

We asked why he wasn't charged and he said he was manipulated.

"Elisa is very manipulative, um, abusive…to me," Adam Baker said. "Very controlling. Plus with work, I was gone first thing in the morning and didn't get home til late. Um, was told that Zahra was in bed because Zahra normally went to bed early. I checked every night and from what I could tell she was in bed. It looked like she, something was in bed."

He says he will stay in the country as long as he needs to until the case is over. He eventually wants to go back to Australia with Zahra's remains.

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=14071308

I get the feeling he trusted too much in this evil woman...I think he's one of those old fashioned men who bring home the bacon and leave the uprearing to the woman of the house. I am of the mind that EB can turn a sad tale very easily. She would use manipulation and lie by omission as long as her strong husband had her back. She uses and abuses men and children, that is her one goal in life...to get what she wants in whatever means necessary. JMHO

Justice for Zahra

 

[LCoastMom]

Originally Posted by believe09
I will say this much-Adam needs to edit his attorney's statements. JMO. I dont think for one second it is appropriate to imply, even slightly, that this is a day of jubilation for Adam since LE made their statement. The jury of public opinion will continue to hold him guilty of failing his child, fair or unfair as that may be....let's face it his statements do not line up with the facts. He knows why they dont, and I cannot imagine knowing why and knowing what happened at the end of the day to his child. I both feel for him and am incredibly outraged at his actions simply because it is very hard for me to understand why he did not advocate for his child. Which is just my impression-that he did not advocate for her. And he has to live with that, so perhaps that is punishment enough.

Jumping up and down over charges of Murder pertaining to his daughter's death. Not the reaction I would expect from a grieving father (or anyone really).

That and the attorney's comment that he didn't know 100% of anything... So what? He knew 99%? 98%? Very odd thing for an attorney to say.

How can Adam plan on leaving? He still has a boatload of bad check and the assault charges to answer to!

 

[westsidefox64]

Ive started this in 2 other threads and changed my mind on where to put it so mods if this isnt the place for it please move it.

Alot of her other (husbands) her children, and others close to her in her everyday life have spoken out about how manipulative EB is. How she made several of the people in her life believe she was someone she wasnt. How atleast in the beginning of a relationship they thought she was sweet and kind. Later to find they had been drawn into her trap. In at least a few instances she had people duped for an extended amount of time.

Several have said she hid the abuse on Zahra from AB. Apparently several others did too. The friend who said EB broke her hand striking Zahras prostetic didnt tell him. Zahra herself covered for her on the black eye issue.

So many have said, I being one of them that AB should be arrested for neglect. Im beginning to wonder if he hasnt been because he honestly believed EB was giving compitent care to Zahra. Not saying this makes him a bright man by any means. If everyone including Zahra was hiding the bad from him he may have just been in the dark. Sounds like she kept several people in the dark for extended periods of time. Its not beyond the realm to think he was one of them . If this is the case he may not have been negligent just stupid or stuped and thats not a crime. JMO

 

[Aedrys]

Ive started this in 2 other threads and changed my mind on where to put it so mods if this isnt the place for it please move it.

Alot of her other (husbands) her children, and others close to her in her everyday life have spoken out about how manipulative EB is. How she made several of the people in her life believe she was someone she wasnt. How atleast in the beginning of a relationship they thought she was sweet and kind. Later to find they had been drawn into her trap. In at least a few instances she had people duped for an extended amount of time.

Several have said she hid the abuse on Zahra from AB. Apparently several others did too. The friend who said EB broke her hand striking Zahras prostetic didnt tell him. Zahra herself covered for her on the black eye issue.

So many have said, I being one of them that AB should be arrested for neglect. Im beginning to wonder if he hasnt been because he honestly believed EB was giving compitent care to Zahra. Not saying this makes him a bright man by any means. If everyone including Zahra was hiding the bad from him he may have just been in the dark. Sounds like she kept several people in the dark for extended periods of time. Its not beyond the realm to think he was one of them . If this is the case he may not have been negligent just stupid or stuped and thats not a crime. JMO

So it's okay to be stupid, that means he gets away for allowing this abuse to happen? I don't think so. He can't be charged with being stupid, but he can be charged with neglect at least. Zahra is his flesh and blood child, his responsiblity. He can't just give responsibility to someone else unless he does so legally, and he didn't do that. Turning a blind eye because EB manipulated him doesn't cut it. He doesn't get to shirk that for being stupid and nonobservant. I don't care how manipulative EB was, that is no excuse for AB not protecting his innocent and helpless child.

Would this be different if AB was the perp and EB allowed the abuse to happen? I know we're much harder on mothers who allow abuse to happen, but it seems like a lot are willing to give AB a pass because he was a stupid, trusting man. That makes no sense to me.

 

[pip]

Jumping up and down over charges of Murder pertaining to his daughter's death. Not the reaction I would expect from a grieving father (or anyone really).

That and the attorney's comment that he didn't know 100% of anything... So what? He knew 99%? 98%? Very odd thing for an attorney to say.

How can Adam plan on leaving? He still has a boatload of bad check and the assault charges to answer to!

Hoping this is just premature 'celebration'. Fingers are crossed that the justice train is chugging down the tracks straight for him and he doesn't see it coming.. It just has to be.. How can they let him walk?

 

[LiveLaughLuv]

I don't think AB is stupid, just naive.

How can he be responsible for neglect if he was just doing what men do?

He left early in the morning and returned home very late at night, probably past Zahra's bedtime. He would look in on her but never got to speak to her. Since it's been said that Zahra never told anyone of the abuse, not even the CPS workers, how would he know? He was in love, he thought this woman would treat him and his child with love and care for them both. I'm betting she poured on the sugar so the lemon wouldn't been seen...at least not until she was ready to show it...

He never knew the extent of EB anger/rage or that it would be taken out on Zahra. He even thought AY was his BIL, never did he know EB was married to him until after Zahra was allegedly missing. Then all the negatives came to light. I don't think putting an innocent person in jail just to appease those who feel, he had to know, would be the right thing to do! He's already lost his only child in the most horrendous of ways and so devious and depraved...which I believe he had no hand in...

I just feel and have felt from the beginning, this beast used manipulation to gain the confidence of this family who came from another country. She is more like the scorpion who takes the spider than she is the spider who tries to flee from the scorpion. Her sting is mighty, her vengeance strong and all that was done to Zahra were by her hands alone. JMHO

Justice for Zahra

 

[TrixieBelden]

IMO there is NO WAY AB lived in the same house with E(B) & ZB and is or was "dumb" enough, naive enough or blind enough to have not clue as to what was going on. This is a man who was employed, drives a vehicle, can navigate the internet!, manage to write bad checks & be arrested for making threats or trying to run someone off the road (sorry I don't remember the exact charge). Smart enough to get a passport, move to the US, and get an attorney. Did AB work 7 days a week/24 hrs a day? He would have seen ZB on the weekends. If she was being so-called home schooled-I doubt that she went to bed early every night.

Has anyone seen the picture of E(B) with the black eye? Where did she get a black eye or from who? What about reports from former landlords/neighbors about arguments & fighting from the B's previous apartment?

So according to him, I am supposed to believe that he had no clue that Zahra was being abused by E(B), no idea that she was "sick enough to pass away" (according to E(B)'s concocted story), no idea that she was murdered & dismembered in a small rental house. No idea that ZB's mattress was dumped and that E(B) was speaking to someone about purchasing a new bed? All this while he is going on his merry way to work and all of this takes place but when he is home everything is peaches & cream-one big happy family? Come on!
What about the brush fire behind the house the day ZB was reported missing? The gasoline in the vehicles? The bogus ransom note? And most of all the UNemotional 911 call to report the poor child missing!!!

IMO E(B) is most likely the main one that did harm to ZB but I have a difficult time believing that she managed to do all of this by herself without AB knowing SOMETHING!!! Why did he keep changing his story about the last time he saw Z? He helped cover up the crime at the very least!

Just a thought- As evil as E(B) is-maybe AB is as good of a liar & manipulator? Maybe HE was the smarter one =the one smart enough to leave his cell phone behind while the poor child's body parts were being strewn across the foothills of NC.

This all makes me so angry & I'm rambling on...but I believe that his turn is coming-I hope so in any case.

 

[free2ride]

I very rarely post here but these are my thoughts on this.

I believe AB knew about the abuse and I believe he was abused by EB too. Remember the ex-husband (well, maybe husband) who said she used to beat him with a ball bat, abuse him etc and he took his suitcase and ran away one day when she left the home? (I don't remember which husband it was - sorry.)

AB might have been told by EB that "I have your daughter and if you don't XYZ then you may come home to find her gone". She may have used the same threat on Zahra per her Daddy.

Husband abuse isn't commonly spoke of. I had an uncle who's wife abused him and their children severely. She used to tie him to a chair and force the children to hit him with items. She ran over him with a car & broke his leg and while it was in a cast she broke his other leg with an axe. Eventually someone shot her (my uncle spent time in prison for murdering her although I think their son did it). Abuse is often a silent torment to families.

I'm not implying that AB was physically abused although it does sound like EB had that down pat (even with large husbands) but I am suggesting that some emotional threats were taking place.

Yes, AB might have very well known that EB was abusing his child but perhaps he felt that if he told anyone (CPS included) that the "payback" would be devastating.

Another thought too...his lack of anger over the death of his daughter might still be tempered by feeling guilty that he should have done something to stop the abuse. Feeling ashamed and guilty are hallmark symptoms of abuse. I'm not trying to excuse him from his responsibility at all. But having experienced this first hand in my family I know that it's harder for a man to acknowledge being abused by a woman than it is for a woman when being abused by a man.

I remember when my aunt was shot their family completely shut down and closed ranks. No one would tell the truth about what their lives was really like. Some of the kids didn't believe their Dad killed their mom and some did. And some felt like their brother did it. But not once did anyone of those children speak out about the abuse their Dad suffered until many decades later. When families live in abuse most of the time the knowledge of that abuse is carried to their graves.

I think the Baker home was steeped in abuse and secrets and I can't help but think that we'll never know the entire truth of what happened behind their closed doors.

What stays in my mind everyday is poor Zahra.

 

[Aedrys]

I very rarely post here but these are my thoughts on this.

I believe AB knew about the abuse and I believe he was abused by EB too. Remember the ex-husband (well, maybe husband) who said she used to beat him with a ball bat, abuse him etc and he took his suitcase and ran away one day when she left the home? (I don't remember which husband it was - sorry.)

AB might have been told by EB that "I have your daughter and if you don't XYZ then you may come home to find her gone". She may have used the same threat on Zahra per her Daddy.

Husband abuse isn't commonly spoke of. I had an uncle who's wife abused him and their children severely. She used to tie him to a chair and force the children to hit him with items. She ran over him with a car & broke his leg and while it was in a cast she broke his other leg with an axe. Eventually someone shot her (my uncle spent time in prison for murdering her although I think their son did it). Abuse is often a silent torment to families.

I'm not implying that AB was physically abused although it does sound like EB had that down pat (even with large husbands) but I am suggesting that some emotional threats were taking place.

Yes, AB might have very well known that EB was abusing his child but perhaps he felt that if he told anyone (CPS included) that the "payback" would be devastating.

Another thought too...his lack of anger over the death of his daughter might still be tempered by feeling guilty that he should have done something to stop the abuse. Feeling ashamed and guilty are hallmark symptoms of abuse. I'm not trying to excuse him from his responsibility at all. But having experienced this first hand in my family I know that it's harder for a man to acknowledge being abused by a woman than it is for a woman when being abused by a man.

I remember when my aunt was shot their family completely shut down and closed ranks. No one would tell the truth about what their lives was really like. Some of the kids didn't believe their Dad killed their mom and some did. And some felt like their brother did it. But not once did anyone of those children speak out about the abuse their Dad suffered until many decades later. When families live in abuse most of the time the knowledge of that abuse is carried to their graves.

I think the Baker home was steeped in abuse and secrets and I can't help but think that we'll never know the entire truth of what happened behind their closed doors.

What stays in my mind everyday is poor Zahra.

This makes sense, but from what we've heard, AB had a pretty short temper himself. I do wonder if abuse was going on both ways, and EB threatened AB with going to jail for abusing her and Zahra. She had manipulated the system before, so I can see where he might be frightened to have to go an American jail, or worse, because she reports him, be deported back to Australia.

I just don't think this was one sided abuse and poor AB just didn't know a thing or was too abused to do anything about it. I think AB and EB each have their dark secrets, probably abused each other and Zahra, and it was more about covering up those secrets and not getting into trouble than Zahra's health and welfare. I do think, in the end, EB decided that Zahra had to go. Who knows, maybe AB was against that and EB went behind his back and did it anyway, figuring she could lie and say Zahra was missing ala Casey Anthony. Too bad that blew up in her face.

While I don't know what AB's role was, I do not think he was just this innocent, unlucky, naive guy that had a horrible thing happen to him. I think he's in this pretty deep with allowing the abuse to go on, and possibly abusing Zahra and EB himself. EB, I believe, did the ultimate act of killing and dismembering her, but I just feel AB has some kind of role here. I think he knows more than he's willing to say, and being jubilant about EB being charged tells me he thinks he's getting away scot free already. I don't like that at all.

 

[TrixieBelden]

Does someone like AB (or OJ Simpson, Scott Petersen, Casey Anthony) who is "perhaps" involved (giving AB the benefit of the doubt) in such a horrible, dark, unspeakable crime finds himself unwilling to just tell the truth of it all?

That what has happened is so despicable that he cannot ever say it out loud & to take the responsibility of what he has done (or allowed someone else to do) to his own child?

I wonder if AB will just deny his involvement to his own mother & family, to the public and even to himself & that in fact he begins to believe his own denial & lies?

 

[westsidefox64]

LE has said they dont believe she had help in killing Zahra. I have to wonder if they had arrested Joe Blow along with her if people would still be trying to hang AB??? If after this amount of time and energy that LE has put into finding the truth do you honestly think if they thought he had hurt one hair on Zahras head he wouldnt have been charged? I see the looks in the eyes of all the LE personel when they have spoke of this case. It touched them deep down in the core of thier being. They are not going to let a guilty person walk on this. I think AB was abused by EB just as her other husbands were. JMO

 

[netsleuther]

RE: No credible evidence comment.

Could the trial for Bigamy possibly reveal premeditation or some planning of deception which led to this outcome or should we just accept that she did it alone and told no one about it and it was a spur of the moment outburst in anger or revenge?

Curious about AB reporting that EB abused him or was abusive towards him. AY sort of said the same thing. I am uncertain if all her other hubby's were abused, it was reported that one high tailed it out of there.

I think AB was deceived from the first day he landed in Hickory until the day he learned he never had a wife but had been there for the amusement of EB and then I wonder if he was abused from then on.

Not sure how controlling she might have been, but if she owned weapons of any kind she might have been threatening towards AB too like chasing him with the knife etc. Are there any reports to say if she owned a gun, it was reported there were tazers in the Baker residence.

It would be sad if he did know that his daughter were being abused, it would be sad if he knew and was unable to do anything about it out of fear. AF was in fear of EB if she were released. I wonder how fearful AB could have been of her too!

me wonders how much of the trial will be about abuse considering there are conflicts in that regard as to who seen it and who done anything about it.