Why would the Ramseys need to stage?

[KeyboardCat]

The number of possibilities to explain not one but all four (4):

1. Missing cord package/roll.
2. Missing black tape package/roll.
3. No innocent use of cord found.
4. No innocent use of black tape found.

What scenario can you describe that would satisfy all four possibilities simultaneously. And, does the scenario involve JR or PR concealing tape or cord?

As for there being no innocent use of black tape found, I believe there was matching black tape found on the back of a picture hanging in JonBenet's bedroom.

 

[BBB167893]

As for there being no innocent use of black tape found, I believe there was matching black tape found on the back of a picture hanging in JonBenet's bedroom.

Thanks, KBC.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

As for there being no innocent use of black tape found, I believe there was matching black tape found on the back of a picture hanging in JonBenet's bedroom.

I believe a lot of people believe that. I'm just not sure its a case fact. I mean, everybody knows cord was found on JBR but nobody has seen it elsewhere.

Its probably a good idea to check your source for bias or how reliable it was.

 

[BBB167893]

The number of possibilities to explain not one but all four (4):

1. Missing cord package/roll.
2. Missing black tape package/roll.
3. No innocent use of cord found.
4. No innocent use of black tape found.

I think we can cross that last one off, thanks to KBC. As for the rest, it's not unthinkable for the packaging to not be found. If personal experience is any indication, both come in shrink-wrap plastic. You just throw it away.

The cord might not even have a roll. If what I've heard is correct, there was a store in Boulder just down the street from JR's office (the Army-Navy Store, I think) that sold cord by the length, not the bundle. They had this big spool and would cut off the length that the customer specified.

What scenario can you describe that would satisfy all three possibilities simultaneously. And, does the scenario involve JR or PR concealing tape or cord?

It might. Well, neither parent was searched when the left the house. PR had a very bulky coat and large purse with her. And JR was awfully worried about his golf bag, wasn't he? Maybe taking a page out of OJ's old book? Then there's the possibility that the tape was used, as Henry Lee said. If so, then it's possible it came off the back of one of the dolls. I can't remember which one. The little one with the cloth body. Help me out, somebody!

Its worth pointing out that in order for PR/JR to have accidentally killed their daughter (the prevailing RDI theory), all items needed to be on hand that night.

Right. We got that.

We can find no indication that this freshly cut cord or black tape were ever owned or operated, innocently or criminally, by JR or PR even though it is crucial to uphold RDI's theory.

Actually, they wouldn't have to be "freshly cut," just to be 100% accurate here.

 

[DeeDee249]

There was no black tape on her legs. That's why there was no tape found, except that small piece that had been on her mouth. If her legs had been taped 1. FW would have seen it and seen JR remove it. 2. The tape would have still been in the basement (as was the piece from her mouth) because after the body was brought up, JR did not return to the basement to hide/remove it and (why would he do that and leave the mouth portion anyway?) .
3. Her legs, in rigor by that time, would have remained tight together even after the tape was removed. No mention was made of this by either Det. Arndt or the coroner. 4. No tape residue was found on her longjohns, or the blanket or her ankles (her feet were exposed, but we don't know exactly how much of her legs were exposed).

 

[MurriFlower]

I believe a lot of people believe that. I'm just not sure its a case fact. I mean, everybody knows cord was found on JBR but nobody has seen it elsewhere.

Its probably a good idea to check your source for bias or how reliable it was.

ST deposition:

"14 Q. Was there any test done on the
15 duct tape that would establish the imprint of
16 JonBenet's lip prints on that tape?
17 A. Was there any test that would
18 establish that?
19 Q. Did you all to your knowledge, did
20 the Boulder Police Department conduct any test
21 that would establish that the duct tape that
22 was pulled off of her mouth by John Ramsey
23 that was then picked up by Fleet White was
24 found somehow to contain a perfect set of
25 JonBenet's lip prints, was any test performed

359

1 that made that finding?
2 A. There was an examination apparently
3 done at some point which was reported back to
4 a detective briefing at which I was present
5 and I believe that was Wickman or Trujillo
6 that shared that information.
7 Q. Who conducted that examination?
8 A. I don't know.
9 Q. Was it an expert of some type?
10 A. I don't know that there is such a
11 thing as an expert examination and there is
12 no testing that I'm aware of. I think
13 that's more common sense observation.
14 Q. Did you ever find the roll of
15 duct tape because the duct tape was torn on
16 both ends, wasn't it?
17 A. We never found the roll of duct
18 tape to source to the duct tape that was
19 covering the victim's mouth.
20 Q. And you didn't find any prior
21 application of this type of duct tape in the
22 house, did you?
23 A. Similar, but I don't know that we
24 ever found a match.
25 Q. Actually what you said was similar

360

1 was just one piece that was found on a
2 painting, right, and it was found not to be
3 in fact from the same --
4 A. Roll, that's right.
5 Q. -- from the roll; is that right?
6 A. Right.

"

 

[MurriFlower]

There was no black tape on her legs. That's why there was no tape found, except that small piece that had been on her mouth. If her legs had been taped 1. FW would have seen it and seen JR remove it. 2. The tape would have still been in the basement (as was the piece from her mouth) because after the body was brought up, JR did not return to the basement to hide/remove it and (why would he do that and leave the mouth portion anyway?) .
3. Her legs, in rigor by that time, would have remained tight together even after the tape was removed. No mention was made of this by either Det. Arndt or the coroner. 4. No tape residue was found on her longjohns, or the blanket or her ankles (her feet were exposed, but we don't know exactly how much of her legs were exposed).

This tape is important. It was torn at both ends, this means it was not cut with any knife. It was torn and we have established that it was gaffer/cloth/tape, black on one side and silver on the sticky side. This type of tape can be torn cleanly and evenly with the fingers. PVC tape (what I call Duct Tape) can't be torn cleanly, it can only be broken or ripped unevenly that's why it was important to establish exactly what type of tape it was.

So, this tape must reveal either fingerprints from bare hands or fibers from gloved hands. If there were four (4) fibers supposedly consistent with the type of jacket PR may have worn, then there must be numerous fibers from the gloves worn by whoever tore the tape. Was this person one of the Rs?? Or would it have more likely have been an IDI??

Also JR said there was black tape on her legs. As I've already said, being IDI means that there is no reason to believe JR lied. RDI must believe it's a lie because tape on her legs does not fit their theory. So where is the tape that JR said was on her legs when he found her? Is LE keeping this evidence confidential? If so, why?

OK, for RDI this poses another problem. We have already a list of things they must have disposed of or sent away with BR, but let's just recap.

1. The Tape
2. The Cord
3. The practice RNs

and now also

4. The gloves

Boy, and you guys reckon the R's were just lucky and not clever!!

 

[cynic]

This tape is important. It was torn at both ends, this means it was not cut with any knife. It was torn and we have established that it was gaffer/cloth/tape,

Not to belabor the point, but this is duct tape we are talking about, not gaffer’s tape.
The Shurtape PC 600 is classified as a utility grade duct tape.
The description from Shurtape is below:
Utility Grade Duct Tapes
Our standard utility grade tapes are an economical choice for general purpose applications such as bundling, sealing, and holding. And we have a wide variety of colors for seaming, repairing or color-coding.
PC 600
http://www.shurtape.com/default.aspx?Tabid=75&Level1=39&Level2=40

Arts & Entertainment Cloth Tapes
Having acquired the Permacel line of Arts & Entertainment tapes, we stand as the leading manufacturer of gaffer's tapes for use in the motion picture, A/V, TV, photography, and book-binding industries.

PC 628
UV resistant gaffers for color coded seaming, bundling & protection

PC 660
Fluorescent vinyl-coated gaffer's tape

P- 665
Vinyl-coated gaffer's tape

P- 68
Premium grade vinyl-coated cloth tape

P- 672
Industrial grade vinyl-coated cloth tape, Waterproof, High tensile strength, ASME NQA-1 tested

P- 691
Premium grade vinyl-coated cloth tape, Waterproof, Matte finish, ASME NQA-1 tested
http://www.shurtape.com/default.aspx?Tabid=75&Level1=39&Level2=44

Also JR said there was black tape on her legs. As I've already said, being IDI means that there is no reason to believe JR lied. RDI must believe it's a lie because tape on her legs does not fit their theory. So where is the tape that JR said was on her legs when he found her? Is LE keeping this evidence confidential? If so, why?

DeeDee is correct in saying there was no tape on her legs. What you are referring to was a transcription error. It should be” lips” not “legs.”

 

[madeleine]

If there WAS a roll, HOTYH. Henry Lee hinted that the tape was a used piece from something else.

Let's examine that for a moment. Assuming Lee is correct, it doesn't make much sense that an intruder will be running around with a used piece of tape in his pocket, does it?

Of course, the RST will simply say that he/they was/were smart enough to find something in the house to take it off of.

I know people don't like it when I quote JMK but he said the piece of tape was applied to the flashlight.(not saying HE did it but maybe that's how it happened)Why bring the whole roll if IDI,a single piece is enough.

 

[madeleine]

This tape is important. It was torn at both ends, this means it was not cut with any knife. It was torn and we have established that it was gaffer/cloth/tape, black on one side and silver on the sticky side. This type of tape can be torn cleanly and evenly with the fingers. PVC tape (what I call Duct Tape) can't be torn cleanly, it can only be broken or ripped unevenly that's why it was important to establish exactly what type of tape it was.

So, this tape must reveal either fingerprints from bare hands or fibers from gloved hands. If there were four (4) fibers supposedly consistent with the type of jacket PR may have worn, then there must be numerous fibers from the gloves worn by whoever tore the tape. Was this person one of the Rs?? Or would it have more likely have been an IDI??

Also JR said there was black tape on her legs. As I've already said, being IDI means that there is no reason to believe JR lied. RDI must believe it's a lie because tape on her legs does not fit their theory. So where is the tape that JR said was on her legs when he found her? Is LE keeping this evidence confidential? If so, why?

OK, for RDI this poses another problem. We have already a list of things they must have disposed of or sent away with BR, but let's just recap.

1. The Tape
2. The Cord
3. The practice RNs

and now also

4. The gloves

Boy, and you guys reckon the R's were just lucky and not clever!!

5.the panties

 

[madeleine]

5.the panties

6.the cloth she was wiped off with

 

[madeleine]

OK, for RDI this poses another problem. We have already a list of things they must have disposed of or sent away with BR, but let's just recap.

I was thinking about them putting all the stuff in BR's backpack too but IMO it would have been way too risky.Some say JR gave M.Archuleta a box with all the evidence in it.This is more credible than sending it away with BR.
I am only speculating here but this could explain the broken window.And we know MA was ALWAYS on JR's side,he even said in one article that he agrees with JR that the intruder must have been a close friend.
So,does anyone know what MA did that day and where he was exactly.Was he called before the grand jury?TIA

 

[WHITEFANG]

Guys,
Confused a bit. Why the sudden interest on the R's part to remove evidence? Did it dawn on them suddenly, days later, how crucial it was to strip the house of any and all incriminating evidence? They had time and opportunity immediately after they committed the crime. They had an infinite number of paths available to take care of that stuff.

 

[MurriFlower]

Not to belabor the point, but this is duct tape we are talking about, not gaffer’s tape.
The Shurtape PC 600 is classified as a utility grade duct tape.
The description from Shurtape is below:
Utility Grade Duct Tapes
Our standard utility grade tapes are an economical choice for general purpose applications such as bundling, sealing, and holding. And we have a wide variety of colors for seaming, repairing or color-coding.
PC 600
http://www.shurtape.com/default.aspx?Tabid=75&Level1=39&Level2=40

Arts & Entertainment Cloth Tapes
Having acquired the Permacel line of Arts & Entertainment tapes, we stand as the leading manufacturer of gaffer's tapes for use in the motion picture, A/V, TV, photography, and book-binding industries.

PC 628
UV resistant gaffers for color coded seaming, bundling & protection

PC 660
Fluorescent vinyl-coated gaffer's tape

P- 665
Vinyl-coated gaffer's tape

P- 68
Premium grade vinyl-coated cloth tape

P- 672
Industrial grade vinyl-coated cloth tape, Waterproof, High tensile strength, ASME NQA-1 tested

P- 691
Premium grade vinyl-coated cloth tape, Waterproof, Matte finish, ASME NQA-1 tested
http://www.shurtape.com/default.aspx?Tabid=75&Level1=39&Level2=44


DeeDee is correct in saying there was no tape on her legs. What you are referring to was a transcription error. It should be” lips” not “legs.”

Ok well, I'll concede that YOU can call the tape by whatever name you want. All I want is for you to confirm that this was 'cloth' tape and not PVC tape? Can you do that for me??

Oh, now you see there is a transcription error. Now when JR said 'wide' and it was written as 'white' I could see how that error could occur but you said he was just lying.

But now you reckon the stenographer wrote 'legs' instead of 'lips'. Nah. Lips and hips I could see. Legs and eggs, pegs, kegs. Sorry doesn't sound anything like it.

Nice try, but no cigar!!

 

[MurriFlower]

6.the cloth she was wiped off with

I think that cloth was left in the bathroom, notice the dark blue rag on the floor that is circled on the photo in red?

http://www.acandyrose.com/bathroom-toilet-x.gif

I'm betting that's the rag that was used.

 

[MurriFlower]

Not to belabor the point, but this is duct tape we are talking about, not gaffer’s tape.
The Shurtape PC 600 is classified as a utility grade duct tape.
The description from Shurtape is below:
Utility Grade Duct Tapes
Our standard utility grade tapes are an economical choice for general purpose applications such as bundling, sealing, and holding. And we have a wide variety of colors for seaming, repairing or color-coding.
PC 600
http://www.shurtape.com/default.aspx?Tabid=75&Level1=39&Level2=40

Arts & Entertainment Cloth Tapes
Having acquired the Permacel line of Arts & Entertainment tapes, we stand as the leading manufacturer of gaffer's tapes for use in the motion picture, A/V, TV, photography, and book-binding industries.

PC 628
UV resistant gaffers for color coded seaming, bundling & protection

PC 660
Fluorescent vinyl-coated gaffer's tape

P- 665
Vinyl-coated gaffer's tape

P- 68
Premium grade vinyl-coated cloth tape

P- 672
Industrial grade vinyl-coated cloth tape, Waterproof, High tensile strength, ASME NQA-1 tested

P- 691
Premium grade vinyl-coated cloth tape, Waterproof, Matte finish, ASME NQA-1 tested
http://www.shurtape.com/default.aspx?Tabid=75&Level1=39&Level2=44


DeeDee is correct in saying there was no tape on her legs. What you are referring to was a transcription error. It should be” lips” not “legs.”

5 LOU SMIT: Photograph number --

6 JOHN RAMSEY: -- 149, that was like

7 (INAUDIBLE) what looks like a big piece of duct

8 tape. That doesn't look like that tape I took off

9 JonBenet's mouth.

10 LOU SMIT: Okay. And why do you say that?

11 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, because as I recall,

12 it was black. It was like a little larger than

13 electrical tape in width. And it struck me, and as

14 I thought about it later, as the kind of tape you

15 might use in sailing to wrap around the stanchion

16 or something.

17 LOU SMIT: The black tape?

18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.

19 LOU SMIT: Have you used that type of

20 tape on (INAUDIBLE)?

21 JOHN RAMSEY: No, I didn't recognize it.

22 But in this picture, it looks like a piece of duct

23 tape. A big piece of duct tape. And that's not

24 what I remember.

25 LOU SMIT: Okay. That's on photograph number --

0291

1 JOHN RAMSEY: 149. Cause it was like stuck

2 to the blanket almost in this picture.

Still lying is he?? Or another transcription error?? That transcription weasel again.

 

[madeleine]

I think that cloth was left in the bathroom, notice the dark blue rag on the floor that is circled on the photo in red?

http://www.acandyrose.com/bathroom-toilet-x.gif

I'm betting that's the rag that was used.

Well if that's the one then JB's blood must be on it ,right,and maybe the killer's DNA.
I am afraid to ask,does anyone know if the cloth in the photo was tested for DNA?

 

[madeleine]

Guys,
Confused a bit. Why the sudden interest on the R's part to remove evidence? Did it dawn on them suddenly, days later, how crucial it was to strip the house of any and all incriminating evidence? They had time and opportunity immediately after they committed the crime. They had an infinite number of paths available to take care of that stuff.

If RDI,removing the incriminating evidence plays a big role.And to me exactly this tells me that it wasn't RDI.
If RDI,why didn't they get rid of the pad and pen?
If RDI,why did they use PR's paintbrush and why didn't they get rid of the remaining piece?I mean,ONE piece is GONE.
If RDI,why use the piece of duct tape (they didn't leave it on JB's mouth anyway),only to bother to get rid of the entire roll?
If RDI,why did they leave the flashlight on the kitchen counter?

 

[MurriFlower]

If RDI,removing the incriminating evidence plays a big role.And to me exactly this tells me that it wasn't RDI.
If RDI,why didn't they get rid of the pad and pen?
If RDI,why did they use PR's paintbrush and why didn't they get rid of the remaining piece?I mean,ONE piece is GONE.
If RDI,why use the piece of duct tape (they didn't leave it on JB's mouth anyway),only to bother to get rid of the entire roll?
If RDI,why did they leave the flashlight on the kitchen counter?

You have come into the light maddy. BUT be prepared. There is no box that this fits into. The IDI could be anyone. We need to focus not on eliminating the Rs, because I can see you have already done that in your mind. Rather we can now concentrate on just who may have done this. I think you're already giving this some thought.

 

[MurriFlower]

Well if that's the one then JB's blood must be on it ,right,and maybe the killer's DNA.
I am afraid to ask,does anyone know if the cloth in the photo was tested for DNA?

We don't know all the evidence, sadly.

We just have to work with what we know and what we can deduce from that.