GUILTY WI - Dr. Beth Potter and husband murdered at UW Arboretum, Madison, March 2020 *Arrests*

  • #161
Bethandrobin’s website now requires a password?
It's possible that happened after the Daily Mail published the daughter's picture, though I don't actually know whether the picture they published was from their memorial site. (I didn't look at the Daily Mail website, only saw the linked article saying DM had daughter's photo.)
 
  • #162
It is possible the daughter knew nothing about the plan. But she did know she was lying in repeatedly giving him a false alibi. The Arrest Document states that she lied for him several times.

I wonder if she is cooperating with LE now.
 
  • #163
It could have been the motive if the BF felt he was “dissed”.
Then IMO it was just a matter of time before this cold blooded killer felt ‘dissed’ about something else.
 
  • #164
For me, when a crime exceeds a certain level of cruelty...when those involved can allow torture or be knowledgeable of suffering and yet let it continue...then how and why become less important to me, except for curiosity. There’s no mitigation for these killers in sad backgrounds or the fact they didn’t feel as loved or whatever.

This poor woman lay suffering beside her dead husband till morning. Whether that was known or not, the killers watched a movie and went to bed.

The capacity to have knowledge of a terrifying kidnapping, a murder, the fact that REAL people who you knew or who loved you were lying in their underwear...or pajamas in the mud and cold....and spend your energies composing alibis...easily distracting yourself...thinking only of yourself...says to me that there is something in these humans that is unfixable...and inexcusable.

How they got that way is not as important as the fact that they ARE that way. The core part of all of us that makes us human...the ability to feel and empathize beyond ourselves...does not exist in them anymore.

This was not a crime of passion...it was a crime that was planned and organized. At every step was the ability to step back and think of these victims as fellow human beings, to think of the fear and pain and suffering they would endure! But there was none of that. Ego and greed, yes. Compassion...they had none.
Great post. You said it much better than I could have.
 
  • #165
So if it turns out she had been abused prior to the victims adopting her, then...her behavior would somehow be acceptable?

Hoping the police are planning to have a loooooong talk with her about how her bf might’ve gotten the idea that he could profit by murdering these two innocent people.

Acceptable? Never. Explainable? That's another story.
 
  • #166
Acceptable? Never. Explainable? That's another story.
It wouldn't explain a thing to me.I was abused as a child as were many others who haven't murdered people or abused other children.We all have choices in life.
 
  • #167
It has become far too frequent that, once in the courtroom, killers are portrayed as the real “victims”....no matter how heinous the crime. “See what someone else or society made me do.”

Personally, I’ve about had my fill of that manipulation.
 
  • #168
I think we all agree that the crime was horrific and absolutely inexcusable.

But, some of us are interested in how this came to be - wanting to know background, etc. as a way to understand the crime, not to excuse it.

That's actually the part of crimes that interest me the most - figuring out the dynamics, motivations, personalities, human behavior, etc. That in no way means I think crimes are excusable.

This particular crime is ripe for delving into family dynamics and I hope we will eventually be able to explore that - with the understanding that nobody here thinks the crime is excusable.

jmopinion
I always wonder about previous behavior and motivations, whether anyone else in their lives had an inkling that these suspects were capable of such an atrocious act, etc. also. I think there are usually signs, and not just what people see on social media.
 
  • #169
I always wonder about previous behavior and motivations, whether anyone else in their lives had an inkling that these suspects were capable of such an atrocious act, etc. also. I think there are usually signs, and not just what people see on social media.

Good point. I wonder about the foster family and the stolen car incident. I wonder what his relationship was with them?
 
  • #170
I certainly don’t speak for everyone but in my opinion, this crime was based on greed and entitlement and had nothing to do with childhood traumas. JMO.

I think we all agree that the crime was horrific and absolutely inexcusable.

But, some of us are interested in how this came to be - wanting to know background, etc. as a way to understand the crime, not to excuse it.

That's actually the part of crimes that interest me the most - figuring out the dynamics, motivations, personalities, human behavior, etc. That in no way means I think crimes are excusable.

This particular crime is ripe for delving into family dynamics and I hope we will eventually be able to explore that - with the understanding that nobody here thinks the crime is excusable.

jmopinion
 
  • #171
It is possible the daughter knew nothing about the plan. But she did know she was lying in repeatedly giving him a false alibi. The Arrest Document states that she lied for him several times.
I wonder if the lies designed to provide a false alibi could support an Accessory After the Fact type charge?
 
  • #172
I certainly don’t speak for everyone but in my opinion, this crime was based on greed and entitlement and had nothing to do with childhood traumas. JMO.

I think it is interwoven...childhood trauma can lead to entitlement and greed..
 
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  • #173
I grew up in an urban environment. My parents both worked. We lived in a small apartment and luxuries were non existent. My mother watched every penny spent carefully.

On Saturdays, it was my job to grocery shop..wheeling a cart we owned to the local store. Under no circumstance was I allowed to buy anything that was not on the list. Occasionally, to my annoyance, my Mother would do the tally and find I had been given too much change. No matter my plans, I had to...first...go back and return the extra money. My Mother’s fear was that the cashier would have to make up that amount if the register did not balance. My Mother always made sure I understood why I had to make that second trip.

But more than that, her family pride was in our honesty not in a few extra dollars gained, never in material things. Oddly, because we did not care about material things beyond what we could afford, we never felt “poor.” And we knew our family was considered one of honesty and integrity...so we were very proud of ourselves. We carried that reputation like we were kings and queens.

Many of these Facebook accounts in these cases show a very different set of values today. The only thing that makes anyone admired or “important” is material things, luxury goods, getting money. These accused killers did not have a set of values out of the norm.

Reading across the social media of their friends shows a pressure to attain material things. Honesty comes free, but it’s of little value. These might be wonderful young men and women but they want to impress each other with gang signs, guns, sexual exploits, etc. I find this sad because my background would not be much different from theirs economically, but the value system has sadly no similarity anymore.
 
  • #174
I grew up in an urban environment. My parents both worked. We lived in a small apartment and luxuries were non existent. My mother watched every penny spent carefully.

On Saturdays, it was my job to grocery shop..wheeling a cart we owned to the local store. Under no circumstance was I allowed to buy anything that was not on the list. Occasionally, to my annoyance, my Mother would do the tally and find I had been given too much change. No matter my plans, I had to...first...go back and return the extra money. My Mother’s fear was that the cashier would have to make up that amount if the register did not balance. My Mother always made sure I understood why I had to make that second trip.

But more than that, her family pride was in our honesty not in a few extra dollars gained, never in material things. Oddly, because we did not care about material things beyond what we could afford, we never felt “poor.” And we knew our family was considered one of honesty and integrity...so we were very proud of ourselves. We carried that reputation like we were kings and queens.

Many of these Facebook accounts in these cases show a very different set of values today. The only thing that makes anyone admired or “important” is material things, luxury goods, getting money. These accused killers did not have a set of values out of the norm.

Reading across the social media of their friends shows a pressure to attain material things. Honesty comes free, but it’s of little value. These might be wonderful young men and women but they want to impress each other with gang signs, guns, sexual exploits, etc. I find this sad because my background would not be much different from theirs economically, but the value system has sadly no similarity anymore.
Your parents taught you valuable lessons...honesty, integrity and little emphasis on material things.
 
  • #175
  • #176
  • #177
I understand your point. But tedious as it might seem, a discussion board is just that. I think I we can respectfully look at what might have motivated these killers...and that is very interesting to me as well. But as part of the discussion, we should be able to debate whether that particular “reason” works in this particular “case.”

To date, its true that we know little of the family dynamics. But asking two 18 year olds that are living in your home...one by gracious invitation only...to follow rules during a pandemic that if NOT followed, definitely can seriously endanger your life...is no rejection.

What was the punishment for not following? Paying for them to live at the Mom’s expense in their own apartment. And providing a car...that they would then be kidnapped and driven to their deaths in.

I believe there is value in trying to understand the victims as well as the killers. I’m just trying to imagine from the victims perspective, what else could they have done as parents to be more supportive and loving?

Yes, and as for this, from the Heavy.com article? Whoa, some deeply rooted emotionally fraught complaints here (BBM):

Instead, Potter’s daughter and her boyfriend were “going off on their own and not staying in the house.” Her daughter said things as they were moving out such as “you don’t care about me” and “you don’t talk to me,” Potter told her friend according to the complaint, adding Sanford was “quieter during the move.”

I admit this is the victim describing secondhand to another, and maybe overly invested in making the situation sound rosy and herself less to blame; but if that's the daughter's worst complaint?

I can understand that making Daughter feel bad. Bad enough to hatch a plot to kill someone, because they won't talk to you? That's a huge stretch, IMO.
 
  • #178
Yes, and as for this, from the Heavy.com article? Whoa, some deeply rooted emotionally fraught complaints here (BBM):

Instead, Potter’s daughter and her boyfriend were “going off on their own and not staying in the house.” Her daughter said things as they were moving out such as “you don’t care about me” and “you don’t talk to me,” Potter told her friend according to the complaint, adding Sanford was “quieter during the move.”

I admit this is the victim describing secondhand to another, and maybe overly invested in making the situation sound rosy and herself less to blame; but if that's the daughter's worst complaint?

I can understand that making Daughter feel bad. Bad enough to hatch a plot to kill someone, because they won't talk to you? That's a huge stretch, IMO.

I read something different in that same article (snipped):

"Potter told her friend that as she and her husband moved the belongings because the teens just ‘sat in her bedroom...and ordered food and didn’t really communicate’ with her.'"

Call me sour, but it will come out, MOO, that M was a LOT of trouble and many inappropriate things had been going on - such as the parents allowing the daughter to have a live-in teen lover who had been doing criminal things - my bet, she was out of control for a long time and the parents, not being trashy, were unable to control it. Not victim blaming them, just feel sorry for them as this must have been miserable to have tried to deal with . JMO based on seeing this too many times with wild teens.

Teen suspect behind murder of University of Wisconsin professor was kicked out of her house | Daily Mail Online
 
  • #179
Did anyone else look at the photos on the memorial website?
Photo albums were divided up
(I can’t remember all of them)

•Knox
•Family
•Madison

I found it odd that the album with the fewest pictures was family.
JMO
 
  • #180
I read something different in that same article (snipped):

"Potter told her friend that as she and her husband moved the belongings because the teens just ‘sat in her bedroom...and ordered food and didn’t really communicate’ with her.'"

Call me sour, but it will come out, MOO, that M was a LOT of trouble and many inappropriate things had been going on - such as the parents allowing the daughter to have a live-in teen lover who had been doing criminal things - my bet, she was out of control for a long time and the parents, not being trashy, were unable to control it. Not victim blaming them, just feel sorry for them as this must have been miserable to have tried to deal with . JMO based on seeing this too many times with wild teens.

Teen suspect behind murder of University of Wisconsin professor was kicked out of her house | Daily Mail Online

Maybe, but I thought another article, which I can't immediately find, said that KS's parents went off to Africa (!) and left him alone, at which point he was sleeping in his car, which is what Dr. P saved him from.

Maybe your kid is a disciplinary problem and you feel the need to exile them from your home; that's one thing. To go several thousands of miles away to another continent (!) on top of the exile, and leave them wholly to fend for themselves? That, to me, is a different order of magnitude. I think the foster parents dropped the ball on this issue big-time in the interim, regardless of how much turmoil and conflict KS might have been to them. They, ahem, certainly didn't seem to mind at minimum, shall we say, that he had aged out of responsibility for foster care.
 

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