Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Quill]

Understood.

That he left the house because he wanted to be able to listen to it and be away from the house when he did? I still want to know what time that that news hit the airwaves, and if that was any thing that prompted him to leave the house that day and at that time.

Gotcha. That was an oops on my part. I totally misread your post first time around. I blame it on being pre-coffee.

 

[human]

Exactly.
Pulling over random cars while enroute to a crime scene is just not feasible.
Time would be lost doing that.

I am really confused . I don’t think anyone is saying the car should have been pulled over.

People are saying that the car should have been announced to the public.

As far as vague! How vague is the black SUV alert?

The Taurus had far more info about it.

Most children are killed within the first three hours.

When there are missing children, there is always the appeal about them being alive, Always. LE always says they feel the child is alive. The parents feel the child is alive

 

[Rubiconbob]

I do not recall seeing that statement.

One thing I would like to mention, and I hope it's okay to do in this reply, is a statement JLC had in the CC (Criminal Complaint):

"J.L.C. stated that sometimes Patterson would have friends and/or relatives over. J.L.C. stated that Patterson made it clear that nobody was to know she was there or bad things would happen to her. In order to hide the fact that J.L.C. was there, Patterson made J.L.C. hide under his bed in his bedroom. J.L.C. stated Patterson’s bed was in one corner of his bedroom. When he made her hide under his bed, J.L.C. stated he stacked totes and laundry bins around the bed with weights (like weights for barbells) stacked against them so she could not move them without his being able to detect it if she did. One time, J.L.C. stated she accidentally moved one of the totes when she was told to hide under the bed and Patterson told her something bad would happen if she did it again. J.L.C. stated Patterson would turn music on in his room so she couldn’t hear what was happening if there was anyone else in the house with him."

"nobody was to know she was there...." Could this be where confusion on people looking for her came from?

ETA: Would be great to understand what device was being used to play the music in his room. If a radio station, did JLC hear that erroneous report about being found? Did JLC pump herself up to make it really happen? IMO all the correct angels/stars aligned for our heroine. Happy tears.

That entire mapout is so effed up..

Telling her something bad might happen,
You killed her parents.... passive general threats aren’t really needed. I’m guessing he grew up hearing bad things could happen a lot from somebody.

And if jayme makes it sound like the under the bed during day was only when Jake dad visited ... does that mean 6 days with quite a bit lower floor movement.??

As for music device... I’d just google whatever device you can find from 2008/09 and whatever top 40 is from 08/09....That probably played on a loop.

 

[margarita25]

This is the second time Radar Online has published something recently that does not exist anywhere else.

For example, in Abby’s and Libby’s case they just claimed to have a quote from Sherriff Leazenby that “new evidence was sent off to Quantico just before Christmas” (paraphrasing). Now they are completely going against official information released by LE re: JP being online? What the heck is up? Could this have been new information they suddenly learned, that LE learned? Trying to wrap my head around this. Going back to read quite again but something really bugs me about this.

Another reason I’m interested in this is from a profiling aspect—being online vs not being online are 2 different things, not to mention this could come into play as related to other potential cases in which he could be involved.

 

[StarEyes]

There is an article that stated the neighbor said that Jayme was surprised she knew Patterson's name and that she was not aware people were looking for her. It was reported in the beginning, I believe in the Star Tribune.
But since she only mentioned music being played, we can't verify that she heard any news at all.
Not many people listen to the radio anymore, especially someone Patterson's age.
I would think that he would not want her knowing anything about people looking for her. As I mentioned before, in many cases the kidnapper wants the victim to believe no-one is looking for them, as a way to maintain control, break their will, and ensure their captive is completely dependent on them for survival. Imo

I think you’re correct. I’m pretty sure he was controlling her in any way he could: physical threats, mind games and lots of lies. Jayme’s a tough nut to crack, thank God, to withstand 88 days with his craziness.
As to the radio, I’m much older than JP and if I do listen to radio, it’s online/inet radio. No commercials, no news. I use a one-time paid app for my inet radio. He could’ve easily done that to play the music nonstop. I’d imagine he wouldn’t want any ads/news to interrupt the music when people were over, just in case Jayme would make noise. They’d be more apt to hear her if music wasn’t playing.

 

[MsBetsy]

Thanks for the link! I cannot read anything at the paper as I used up my free options a long time ago. Getting rid of my history is a nightmare because of reentering passwords.

So this answers the question I think lots of us had. She had not heard the news about herself. She heard no radio amd saw no television about herself.

But what is the comment that she was surprised they knew Patterson’s name?

I think when she told them who he was or which house it was, she was surprised that they knew who he was. She was likely very confused at that point. Maybe they told her that it had been on the news and for a minute she thought they had heard his name, in connection with the crime. Imo

 

[mtnlites]

I don't think there's anything unusual about his HS class photo, IMO.
I'm unhappy in all my class photos from kindergarten to grade 4.
Some people just don't like group pictures.

Wasn't weird to me, either. Small graduating class here (42 people) and I couldn't stand a one of them in my own grade. It is entirely possible that one can be a part of a group and not relate to or like a single other person in it.

In hindsight it's easy enough to look at things from the past and see them as signs of something unusual. At the time, though, it can be difficult to tell the difference between something that just makes a person quirky and something that signals a real problem. JP apparently did have at least some friends, and dated at least one girl, so it doesn't sound like he was completely antisocial.

 

[Gardener1850]

Another piece of information that I cannot reconcile is that the neighbors heard the first two shots but didn't report the third but made no report of hearing the police sirens that Jayme said she heard and that JP pulled over for. They were awake at around that time and also said they had taken the dog out about one am because it was aware of something. Wonder why, but I do know from first hand experience, that first responders will approach an unknown situation without sirens and in many cases red/blue lights so as to not tip off an intruder. That makes me wonder how far away from the scene they do that because that would indicate how far away JP was when he pulled to the side of the road.

BBM
The first 2 shots were made outside at the front door in quick succession. The third shot was inside the home, which could explain why they didn't hear it. The neighbor did say the dog 'huffed' a little around 1 am, but I'm not sure if she actually took him outside at that time.

Good question about the lights and sirens, I thought they went in silent. IDK.

Initially, it was reported there were no sirens but we know now that Jayme heard them from the trunk of the car as the responding officers drove past.
Complaint reveals chilling details of Jayme Closs' abduction, captivity

I don't think JS took their dog outside, but that the dog was already outside.

BANFIELD: That`s remarkable. And that night it goes without saying, you didn`t see or hear any vehicles coming or going, especially around the time of the gunshots?

SMREKAR: No, and I don`t sleep well at night. And I was up about 1:00 o`clock-ish, and our dog was on the porch. And he was doing some light trumping noises. And I knew something was up. I couldn`t see anything anywhere that looked or felt out of line. And I told the FBI people that have been here a couple times. I said, you know, from now on, if I hear something that doesn`t sound appropriate for that time of night. I`m going to call in immediately, because we just thought it was maybe a neighbor chasing a bear out of their yard.
CNN.com - Transcripts

While @girlhasnoname has a good point that possibly the neighbors could only hear the first two shots, I don't think we should pay attention to anything the neighbors said, especially their times given for when they heard and did things, and what they claimed to have heard or not heard that night. The sheriff said back on Dec 10th their account is unsubstantiated.

From the media thread:

Dec 10, 2018

The Closs' neighbor, Joan Smrekar, told USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin that she and her husband heard two gunshots around 12:30 a.m. on Oct. 15. At 12:58 a.m., a 911 call came in from Denise's phone. But the dispatcher wasn't able to connect with the caller, so it's unclear who actually dialed 911.

Fitzgerald said the neighbors' account of gunshots is unsubstantiated, and nothing points to shots going off around that time. He's unsure why their time frame differs from investigators'.

"There’s nothing to show that somebody was in the house for 20 minutes," he said.

'You almost never see this': 5 questions about the Jayme Closs disappearance

 

[human]

LE in this town is changing their protocol because of Jayme

Agencies update child abduction protocol after Jayme Closs abduction

 

[margarita25]

Do you have a link to statistics that show that home invasions are on the rise? Most recent studies I have seen actually show that they are on the decline.

Home Invasion Statistics - Self Defense & Prevention - Gun Sources

Hi, I made a long post about this exact thing somewhere (“are home invasions on the rise?”). I’ll try to find post but iirc there was something to the effect of the labeling of “home invasion” and the way crimes are classified which makes it difficult to analyze, paraphrasing, will see if I can find it. I was big on the random home invasion theory and did a lot of research on this, I’ll see if I can find it.

 

[human]

While @girlhasnoname has a good point that possibly the neighbors could only hear the first two shots, I don't think we should pay attention to anything the neighbors said, especially their times given for when they heard and did things, and what they claimed to have heard or not heard that night. The sheriff said back on Dec 10th their account is unsubstantiated.

From the media thread:

Dec 10, 2018

The Closs' neighbor, Joan Smrekar, told USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin that she and her husband heard two gunshots around 12:30 a.m. on Oct. 15. At 12:58 a.m., a 911 call came in from Denise's phone. But the dispatcher wasn't able to connect with the caller, so it's unclear who actually dialed 911.

Fitzgerald said the neighbors' account of gunshots is unsubstantiated, and nothing points to shots going off around that time. He's unsure why their time frame differs from investigators'.

"There’s nothing to show that somebody was in the house for 20 minutes," he said.

'You almost never see this': 5 questions about the Jayme Closs disappearance

The neighbors had no idea that they were shot, did they? The neighbors did not say ten shots or twenty shots. They said two shots, the second one louder. Would hitting a metal doorknob be louder outside than going through the glass into the body?

I do not discount them. But not hearing sirens is strange unless they were in some kind of topographical,situation which blocks the road noise. Things like that exist. I hear my neighbor’s radio half a mile away because the sound travels across the water.

 

[margarita25]

LE in this town is changing their protocol because of Jayme

Agencies update child abduction protocol after Jayme Closs abduction

““In a case of a child abduction, there are no jurisdictional boundaries,” said Captain Muraski.

However, Captain Muraski said protocols are always changing, usually based on actual events like Jayme Closs’ abduction.

“In that particular case, it really emphasizes how much those seconds matter so we take away from that now is what can I do to carve time off of our initial response,” said Captain Muraski.

Captain Muraski said he was stunned when Jayme told investigators she could hear cop car sirens as she was being taken in the trunk of her kidnapper’s vehicle. In the criminal complaint, Patterson said he yielded to two police cars responding to the murder scene in Barron.

“It makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up how close they were to maybe being able to you know, rescue her sooner,” said Captain Muraski.

In Green Bay, all officers are required to turn their dash cams on immediately while responding and setting up a perimeter.

“So that if that vehicle is driving around some place, we at least get an image of the vehicle with the license plate along with the area that that vehicle was spotted,” said Captain Muraski.

Captain Muraski said changes like that can make all the difference and he is expecting more in the future as another CART team investigates the Closs abduction.“

 

[margarita25]

(Something is really bugging me about this discrepancy re: him being online, moo....can’t put my finger on it...this is not to say things did not go down as LE said they did...if he had an online presence then this is really important and we need to find it, moo. Even if it’s been scrubbed.

 

[PommyMommy]

This is the second time Radar Online has published something recently that does not exist anywhere else.

For example, in Abby’s and Libby’s case they just claimed to have a quote from Sherriff Leazenby that “new evidence was sent off to Quantico just before Christmas” (paraphrasing). Now they are completely going against official information released by LE re: JP being online? What the heck is up? Could this have been new information they suddenly learned, that LE learned? Trying to wrap my head around this. Going back to read quite again but something really bugs me about this.

Another reason I’m interested in this is from a profiling aspect—being online vs not being online are 2 different things, note to mention his could come into play as related to other potential cases with which he is involved.

Sometimes they get good information. Sometimes they don't.

From RadarOnline, OCTOBER 19, 2018:

“There is a report that someone allegedly knocked on the door and as the father went to answer it gunfire erupted through the door. That has not been confirmed yet as it’s an active investigation,” an FBI source exclusively told RadarOnline.com.

“The mother appeared to have barricaded herself in the bathroom and called police,” added the insider, explaining that she was not able to reach the dispatcher before being killed.

The source also added that the attack does not seem to have been random: “it was targeted. The perpetrator had the specific intent to leave the home with Jayme in their possession.”

Missing Jayme Closs Was Home When Abductor Shot Her Parents Dead, Source Claims

 

[Julia966]

This is the second time Radar Online has published something recently that does not exist anywhere else.

For example, in Abby’s and Libby’s case they just claimed to have a quote from Sherriff Leazenby that “new evidence was sent off to Quantico just before Christmas” (paraphrasing). Now they are completely going against official information released by LE re: JP being online? What the heck is up? Could this have been new information they suddenly learned, that LE learned? Trying to wrap my head around this. Going back to read quite again but something really bugs me about this.

Another reason I’m interested in this is from a profiling aspect—being online vs not being online are 2 different things, note to mention his could come into play as related to other potential cases with which he is involved.

And I wonder where RO would get the information about him supposedly following the Badmins page. I can't imagine LE would release his browser history.

(edit) Oh, I see the article mentions "a source close to the investigation". Whatever that means.

 

[MsBetsy]

Thanks for explaining (I’m not on FB and rely on you guys for that stuff).

A few things, if one does have to be a member to view content in that group then which one is his profile and it is still active?

Also, this brings to light yet another discrepancy, not saying in a blaming manner but just noting for hindsight as far as trying to understand what all went down in this investigation from an educational standpoint.

Thirdly, how he must have been gleaming reading everyone’s theories and posts which had nothing to do with anything.

But Jayme got him in the end!!

She beat you *******!!!

—-

I think another glaring elephant in the room is can we trust his accounts of how he targeted Jayme?

And what else might his online activity have uncovered? As mentioned we can not say this was likely his first rodeo..or was it?

Many have wondered if he had done something like this before, or at least tried to.
It is interesting how in the complaint, Patterson refers to the glow in the dark safety latch in the trunk as the "kidnapping cord." Imo

 

[margarita25]

“Past abduction cases have also influenced how Green Bay Police handle runaway cases in the city.

"In the past, sometimes we would take a phone report. Now we have an officer go to the house because we want things like a photograph," said Captain Muraski. "Maybe a teenager is just having a disagreement with mom or dad, but an hour later we may learn that it's more serious than that....that changes the case. We don't want to have to go back and play catch up. We want to handle the runway complaint properly in the first place."

Captain Muraski said it also comes down to the victim. If the missing person or child has a disability, that plays a role in how they start the search.“

Agencies update child abduction protocol after Jayme Closs abduction

Also see article re: autism cases:

Thanks @human for the link.

 

[Rhenish]

11

Every time I think about or read that he made her stay under that bed with totes blocking her in, all I can think of is a coffin. Almost buried alive. It’s such a small space. I don’t know how she didn’t have horrible panic attacks every time. He’s such a creepy little man. jmo

I do too and it sickens me to think about being under that bed. I imagine, if it was a typical twin size bed, it was not too many inches above the floor and her face was probably only inches away from the bottom surface of the frame or box-spring of the bed. She would not have been able to roll over and would have been lying on a hard surface for hours at a time. Being under that bed had to have been tortuous, and dark and terrifying.

 

[Gardener1850]

Some thoughts:

If I’m understanding correctly, no angles, no amount of sleuthing, nothing could have located Jayme:

1. Her abduction had nothing to do with the turkey plant, James or Denise (disgruntled employees/workers, etc).

2. Her abduction had nothing to do with other violent home invasions.

3. Social Media and internet activity had zero significance in this case.

4. The perp was in no database as he had zero criminal record.

5. This had nothing to do with any of Jayme’s extracurricular activities, such as dance.

6. This had nothing to do with any neighbors or anyone in the community.

7. Perp had zero ties to the community.


Point is this was one of the hardest to solve because There was nothing. Not a link to anything. It doesn’t matter how good of an LE Investigator or Sleuther one is, you can’t find something if it’s not there.

—-

I completely agree. The only thing that might have solved this earlier is if someone called asking for a check of the cabin where she was being held. Many people did call the tipline specifically asking LE to check their vacant vacation cabins. LE offered this service and asked people to please check their cabins or ask LE and they would check. But the Patterson cabin was technically not vacant since JTP's family knew he was living there. The Gordon area neighbors said they hardly ever saw JTP there and walking by the cabin gave them a weird feeling due to all the abandoned cars on the property. But there was no way they could have known Jayme was there. I keep wondering if there was some way she could have been found but the answer keeps coming back as no-- it doesn't seem anything would have found her other than over-suspicious vacation home neighbors or JTP's own family suspecting something.

MOO

 

[StarEyes]

Many have wondered if he had done something like this before, or at least tried to.
It is interesting how in the complaint, Patterson refers to the glow in the dark safety latch in the trunk as the "kidnapping cord." Imo

I’m claiming complete ignorance here: is it common to call it a “kidnapping cord”? Sometimes, things pick up odd names and catch on en masse. I didn’t even know there was a glow in the dark safety latch on the truck. Makes sense, though. tia.