Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #41

[Julia966]

I wonder what that means, that she said she didn't know people were looking for her. I understand she had no access to TV or radio or the internet, but did she really think no one would try to find her? Or is she saying that she didn't realize she had become a national story?

 

[gitana1]

They could look into it further, make model,plates etc. Leave no stone unturned. No vehicle above suspicion.

I'm not sure what you mean, friend. The issue was why didn't they run the plates. They were going too fast in the dark toward the crime scene to get plates of a car they passed in order to do that. That was my point.

 

[Gardener1850]

The neighbors had no idea that they were shot, did they? The neighbors did not say ten shots or twenty shots. They said two shots, the second one louder. Would hitting a metal doorknob be louder outside than going through the glass into the body?

I do not discount them. But not hearing sirens is strange unless they were in some kind of topographical,situation which blocks the road noise. Things like that exist. I hear my neighbor’s radio half a mile away because the sound travels across the water.

I'm not sure what the neighbors knew by the time the FBI came to see them. They claimed they didn't know anything happened until later in the morning when the FBI knocked on their door. It's possible that the officers who came to see the neighbors said "Your neighbors Jim and Denise have been found dead and their daughter is missing-- is it ok to search your property?" It's possible they asked the neighbors questions like "Do you own any firearms?" With those two questions alone it would not be hard to guess James and Denise had been shot and there must have been at least 2 gunshots fired.

It's possible that the neighbors honestly thought they heard something that night but were not as awake as they thought. Perhaps their clocks were off more than they thought. Or it's possible they completely fabricated the story for some bizarre reason (false memory, desire for media attention, wanting to be helpful, I don't know why). No matter why they were incorrect about everything the fact is they were incorrect. Unsubstantiated. There were many other inconsistencies in the neighbor's story. I posted a list of some of the inconsistencies here:
AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #28
I doubt the neighbors will be testifying in court to what they heard. They are the last source we should rely on for correct info. MOO.

 

[The Dude]

Or .. hey mom!.. what’s your Facebook / twitter login ... I’m gonna look for a job like a good boy ... I’d bet that or a laptop he keeps hidden in the attic...

We need that dog again!

This raises an interesting question for me. Since it seems he spent a lot of the time away from the dump at his mom's house, I wonder if there was a search warrant executed at her house?

 

[WiseOwl]

I wonder what that means, that she said she didn't know people were looking for her. I understand she had no access to TV or radio or the internet, but did she really think no one would try to find her? Or is she saying that she didn't realize she had become a national story?

Maybe it's what Patterson told Jayme to brainwash her, that no-one was looking for her - as a controlling method perhaps?

 

[gitana1]

I wonder what that means, that she said she didn't know people were looking for her. I understand she had no access to TV or radio or the internet, but did she really think no one would try to find her? Or is she saying that she didn't realize she had become a national story?

She's a child. They can be easily led to believe no one cares and no one is looking. This is a common tactic of kidnappers. Steven Stayner's kidnapped told him that. He believed it until he escaped.

 

[The Dude]

I'm not sure what you mean, friend. The issue was why didn't they run the plates. They were going too fast in the dark toward the crime scene to get plates of a car they passed in order to do that. That was my point.

Not to mention that the Taurus had no front plate, thus the dash cam wouldn't have picked up a plate # anyway.

 

[Gardener1850]

I don't know if the video was ever posted here - I can't seem to find it.

@oceanblueeyes watched the interview and explained Mark's theory here: AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

Thanks Pommy, I don't think it ever was posted. All I remember is OBE's account of what he said.

 

[MassGuy]

JP knew that Mollie alerted the family, yet he did not kill her.
She prevented his element of surprise.
I would think, he definitely wanted Mollie to pay.
Hearing the shot gun blast, Mollie was probably terrified, and hid under furniture, therefore saving her own life.
MOO.

I don’t think he would have been the least bit concerned about offing the dog.

His goal was to take Jayme from the house, and make his escape with her.

That was his focus, and time was of the essence.

 

[Rosiebones]

While @girlhasnoname has a good point that possibly the neighbors could only hear the first two shots, I don't think we should pay attention to anything the neighbors said, especially their times given for when they heard and did things, and what they claimed to have heard or not heard that night. The sheriff said back on Dec 10th their account is unsubstantiated.

From the media thread:

Dec 10, 2018

The Closs' neighbor, Joan Smrekar, told USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin that she and her husband heard two gunshots around 12:30 a.m. on Oct. 15. At 12:58 a.m., a 911 call came in from Denise's phone. But the dispatcher wasn't able to connect with the caller, so it's unclear who actually dialed 911.

Fitzgerald said the neighbors' account of gunshots is unsubstantiated, and nothing points to shots going off around that time. He's unsure why their time frame differs from investigators'.

"There’s nothing to show that somebody was in the house for 20 minutes," he said.

'You almost never see this': 5 questions about the Jayme Closs disappearance

I didn't think LE disputed the fact that they heard what they thought were two shots, only what the time on the clock was and therefore disregarded them because they didn't into the timeline.

 

[SeekingJana]

Badmins is a Facebook group. I'm on Facebook but frankly don't know much about how it works. Do you need to have a Facebook profile to read things on Facebook?

I'm sure he has an online history. What he apparently doesn't have is an online presence, which I take to mean that he doesn't have a profile in any SM platform. But he was apparently accessing the Badmins site somehow, if RO is accurate.

If he was accessing info from, say, his mom's computer , isn't it likely that her FB password was stored and he just logged in as her?
Or any other family member if he " visited" anyone that often, which I really doubt.

Years ago, and maybe now, it was possible to create a FB account with truthful info, and simply use it to read the trending FB posts or maybe to look up a specific page, like " Find Jayme" page or something.

At the end of the browsing session, there's an option in SETTINGS to DEACTIVATE the account. Facebook said this means it's like it doesn't exist but isn't the same as a permanent deletion of an account.

What this allowed someone to do if they weren't supposed to have a SM presence for security reasons was to see Facebook- specific content that may have been extremely important to them personally.
I'm one of those people who shouldn't have a Facebook or any other SM accounts for security reasons and I used the method until I realized there's NOTHING I need to know badly enough to jeopardize my personal safety. I could have been online at the same time as the man who abducted me was, and sometimes, the privacy settings didn't work like they were supposed to.
( Almost everyone knows about the privacy security flaws now, but it was easy to check years ago).

So, he may have " used" another person's Facebook account if could with a computer- specific saved password, or set up his own account at some point in time and kept it in Deactivated status unless HE wanted info from a business on FB.

 

[gitana1]

Yeah, it seems the Taurus was the only clue they had. I don't know why they didn't make the sighting of that car public after they realized that it might have significance. Sure, they would have been flooded with tips, but someone from Eau Claire Acres might have called it in. It's also possible he would have gotten rid of it, but even then, someone may have seen it abandoned or something and let LE know. It seems like a huge missed opportunity to me as well, though LE may have had a good reason for not making it public that I'm not seeing.

It's an oddity in this case and I want to know why they didn't. But if they had and someone had a tualy reported it, "there's a red Ford Taurus in the neighborhood." That wouldn't be enough. Then what?

"Ok. Do you know the owner?"

"No. There's a young man who lives there. Keeps to himself. I rarely see him. Have never spoken to him."

"Have you seen someone who resembles Jayme with him or on that property or nearby?"

"No.".

Now what? Maybe they decide to go further and check out the car. Go to the property. See it and run the plates. It would come back to a female.

I don't know that they could get far. If they were really interested they could look at her family. That would cause them to zero in maybe on the brother. Possibly contact all the family. See if they'd be willing to answer questions. If they did manage to track down JP that way and ask him questions or let him know they wanted to ask questions, he would probably simply have killed her.

They would've had zero probable cause to search the vehicle or property.

And just getting that far would be dependent on a lot of thing a falling into place. Like a neighbor noticing the car AND hearing the report AND deciding to call. And LE noting one report out of probably thousands. Etc.

 

[Gardener1850]

Presuming that previous visits by PP to see JP the music wasn't turned up; what thoughts PP now has knowing JC was upstairs hearing the music. Wonder if he questioned at at and what answer he received? Can not imagine PP's anguish.

I don't know. I feel like this is such a bizarre situation. I'm having trouble even putting myself in the dad's place to understand. Why was JTP allowed to live alone in the house in Gordon amongst the family's old possessions? Why did the father visit every Saturday? Was he giving JTP money or food? Or did he think JTP had a job? Did JTP pay for anything?
We have too little info right now. MOO.

 

[Julia966]

She's a child. They can be easily led to believe no one cares and no one is looking. This is a common tactic of kidnappers. Steven Stayner's kidnapped told him that. He believed it until he escaped.

Oh I see, he told her that. Thanks, I missed that part.

 

[gitana1]

Oh I see, he told her that. Thanks, I missed that part.

Nothing has been reported that he did. But it's not unreasonable to assume.

 

[gitana1]

Not to mention that the Taurus had no front plate, thus the dash cam wouldn't have picked up a plate # anyway.

Yes and even if it had, zooming past in the dark the dash cam probably wouldn't have recorded it clearly.

 

[tmar]

11


I do too and it sickens me to think about being under that bed. I imagine, if it was a typical twin size bed, it was not too many inches above the floor and her face was probably only inches away from the bottom surface of the frame or box-spring of the bed. She would not have been able to roll over and would have been lying on a hard surface for hours at a time. Being under that bed had to have been tortuous, and dark and terrifying.

I hope, his bed has no mattress, just a wooden slab.
It would be great if he was placed in a room, that had bunk beds, where the upper bed, was very close to lower, and upper bed closed off.
Let JP experience being in a confined, uncomfortable space.
Guess he may also be placed into the smallest cell available.
MOO.

 

[Julia966]

I don't know. I feel like this is such a bizarre situation. I'm having trouble even putting myself in the dad's place to understand. Why was JTP allowed to live alone in the house in Gordon amongst the family's old possessions? Why did the father visit every Saturday? Was he giving JTP money or food? Or did he think JTP had a job? Did JTP pay for anything?
We have too little info right now. MOO.

I'm picturing it as an accommodation for their oddball son who can't get his act together. The family was apparently not using the house, so why not let him live there while he sorts himself out? Dad visits him on Saturdays to see how he is, give him pep talks, maybe a few bucks here and there. He ventures out once in a while to see his mother and grandparents and, other than the fact that he's very quiet and can't keep a job, he gives no one any cause for alarm.

 

[The Dude]

It's an oddity in this case and I want to know why they didn't. But if they had and someone had a tualy reported it, "there's a red Ford Taurus in the neighborhood." That wouldn't be enough. Then what?

"Ok. Do you know the owner?"

"No. There's a young man who lives there. Keeps to himself. I rarely see him. Have never spoken to him."

"Have you seen someone who resembles Jayme with him or on that property or nearby?"

"No.".

Now what? Maybe they decide to go further and check out the car. Go to the property. See it and run the plates. It would come back to a female.

I don't know that they could get far. If they were really interested they could look at her family. That would cause them to zero in maybe on the brother. Possibly contact all the family. See if they'd be willing to answer questions. If they did manage to track down JP that way and ask him questions or let him know they wanted to ask questions, he would probably simply have killed her.

They would've had zero probable cause to search the vehicle or property.

And just getting that far would be dependent on a lot of thing a falling into place. Like a neighbor noticing the car AND hearing the report AND deciding to call. And LE noting one report out of probably thousands. Etc.

Let me go off on a hypothetical tangent here - If Jayme hadn't escaped, and this whole thing was dragging on and on, and the family decides to hire a private investigator - would this PI be able to obtain any of the 'secret' info from LE? Like the car? Or would they not play nice together?

 

[Gardener1850]

I didn't think LE disputed the fact that they heard what they thought were two shots, only what the time on the clock was and therefore disregarded them because they didn't into the timeline.

I agree because LE never mentioned the neighbors hearing two shots at all. It was never brought up in any press conferences nor press releases. The two shots heard by the neighbors were not mentioned by Fitzgerald in any interviews. And now we know why. The fact is there were more than 2 shots fired. At the time Fitzgerald gave that Dec 10 interview the detail of how many shots were fired had not been released by LE. So I don't think Fitzgerald was answering specifically about the number of shots they heard, no. He would not want that info (about number of shots fired) to get out, but he said in a general way that their account was unsubstantiated before answering more specifically about the timing being off. Take the neighbors interviews however you like. Bottom line is the neighbors were incorrect.
MOO.