Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #43

[ilovechili]

Maybe the knife was for the duct tape. I read up on Gorilla brand duct tape and according to the manufacturer, you can tear it manually. (Haven’t we all struggled w/duct tape?) Interesting sidebar about duct tape is that labs can match samples from victims to their original rolls. Those w/more knowledge on forensics can fill in those blanks.

Wonder if he burned all the tape he used to bind JC (along w/her clothes) as well as the original roll?

I have wondered about the tape too. Double gloved, with a knife or by hand, were their pieces left, etc. Did he buy it when he bought the mask or was it an old roll? I think I read it was an old roll somewhere (per him), said it was squashed or something. Odd remark actually to point that out. Very odd I think. To like explain where it came from or that he had it??

I still have trouble believing he put the gun down and used both hands to tape Jayme unless he beat Denise into submission or something.... These are the kinds of things that may not have been said yet, a complaint is just partial, but fill in the blanks...

Edited to correct: *there* not their lol.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

It was said I believe by the dog walker. Per one news org at least. I could not tell you which. I know KSTP was one of the early ones... I know the night of the escape I mostly had the locals on, 11, 5, etc. And I heard it. It seems to me it was while they were walking to the other home, I got the impression that after realizing who she was, she was something like how many people would be so happy, did she realize how many people were looking for her...

JC could have taken that question literally, “do you know HOW MANY people were looking for her”? I know that sounds like hair splitting but remember, she was in shock and traumatized. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t aware that she was a big local news story.

Also, imagine how visitors to the JP house talked about this on the news? Wondering how JP behaved when the topic came up with anyone that visited the house? That was another reason to turn on music, so JC wouldn’t hear what was being said. And, I don’t think it was just “music” because that would mean a CD (highly doubt he has Pandora or satellite radio). Putting a CD on repeat would seem odd to guests, woudn’t it?

 

[Julia966]

Well, he did park at the end of the driveway and walk up to the house. Then he saw James through the window and yelled at him before shooting him and shooting the door down. By the time he got to the bathroom, Denise was on the 911 call. Then it was about 4 or 5 minutes after that when LE arrived. So it may have been 4 minutes give or take a couple of minutes. Imo

Did he park at the street end of the driveway? Jayme says the dog was barking and she "noticed there was someone driving up their driveway" (p. 6). JP says he turned off the car's lights and "coasted to the end of the driveway" (p. 9). He parked "near the end of the driveway" and "approached the house". I always took that to mean that he drove to the end of the driveway nearest the house, not the "end" nearest the road.

 

[MsBetsy]

My time thing has more to do with before any 911 call where I leave my mind open. I agree that 4 or 7 minutes is not all that significant. I am thinking more along the lines of when he got there until there was a 911 call. The 911 call is the basis of our timing. I guess what I mean for one example is he may have looked thoroughly through every room and they may have been in the bathroom longer than we think but trying to be quiet re not dial 911 hoping he would leave and think no one in the house until he started attacking the door... Just one example...

Yes, my guess is it would have taken a couple of minutes for him to walk through the house and break the door down. Jayme said she knew her father had been killed when they heard the gunshots. I don't think it was specified exactly when they got through to 911. We know the dispatcher tried calling back, so I guess we can assume he had been taping her at that point, and by the time of the third gunshot it was already disconnected.
Maybe the sounds they heard were of him breaking the door down and them screaming. They said all that could be heard was a commotion and yelling. Imo

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, it's been posted many times, and I think again in the last thread when it was brought up.
The neighbor said Jayme had no idea people were looking for her.
Jayme told LE that Patterson played music in his room so she wouldn't hear anything when he had people over. She never mentioned hearing any news on the radio. Imo

I would add I am pretty sure in the criminal complaint the word "radio" is used. I know it could be any station and be something else but "radio" was used. Maybe it is just the word used and it could have been a DVD player, Ipod, whatever. If he turned it up or left it on, and it was a radio, one would think news may be heard. However, I also recall we would go almost a month without any news at times... And are there stations that are all music, etc. and no news?

 

[MsBetsy]

Did he park at the street end of the driveway? Jayme says the dog was barking and she "noticed there was someone driving up their driveway" (p. 6). JP says he turned off the car's lights and "coasted to the end of the driveway" (p. 9). He parked "near the end of the driveway" and "approached the house". I always took this to mean that he drove to the end of the driveway nearest the house, not the "end" nearest the road.

I don't know. I thought the end of the driveway was nearest the road. Jayme said she saw him walking up the driveway, I thought.
Maybe he did park nearer to the house and still had to walk up some of the driveway and across the lawn.
Either way it wouldn't have made much difference in the time. Maybe only a matter of one minute.
Whatever he did he managed to get away with just seconds to spare. It was pure luck on his part. Just 20 or 30 seconds sooner and LE would have caught him.
I imagine he got a huge thrill out of that. Jmo

 

[Auntie Cipation]

After she got out from under the bed, she still had some decisions about whether to make a run for it, which direction to go, and what specific moment she chose. That's when I thought she might have been boosted by realizing (sight, sound, smell of woodsmoke, whatever) that there were neighbors present just a house or two away. Also yes possibly boosted by maybe having heard the false reports about her being found on the radio?

 

[ilovechili]

JC could have taken that question literally, “do you know HOW MANY people were looking for her”? I know that sounds like hair splitting but remember, she was in shock and traumatized. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t aware that she was a big local news story.

Also, imagine how visitors to the JP house talked about this on the news? Wondering how JP behaved when the topic came up with anyone that visited the house? That was another reason to turn on music, so JC wouldn’t hear what was being said. And, I don’t think it was just “music” because that would mean a CD (highly doubt he has Pandora or satellite radio). Putting a CD on repeat would seem odd to guests, woudn’t it?

I get your point but I also found myself it was very surprising how many did not have this case on their radar even locally or where it bothered them like it has me or some of us on here. I know of several. It may not have been the subject of conversation you think while people were at the house.

I do think she could have just been in shock and modest answering do you know how many people are looking for you? I totally do not judge that response at all. I also, as I said, know how many of us were going on after a few weeks of the lack of news. If we were seeing none on the LE page, or the news, she was not hearing it probably on the radio if news was on.

So yeah, all possibilities. I do not disagree whatsoever.

 

[ilovechili]

I don't know. I thought the end of the driveway was nearest the road. Jayme said she saw him walking up the driveway, I thought.
Maybe he did park nearer to the house and still had to walk up some of the driveway and across the lawn.
Either way it wouldn't have made much difference in the time. Maybe only a matter of one minute.
Whatever he did he managed to get away with just seconds to spare. It was pure luck on his part. Just 20 or 30 seconds sooner and LE would have caught him.
I imagine he got a huge thrill out of that. Jmo

I take it to mean when he was on Hwy 8 he shut things off and coasted into the driveway end near the road. Walked up to the house. The driveway is uphill, I do not see him coasting uphill. She saw him walking up the driveway. So with that basis, he had to drag her out of the house and down the driveway, open the trunk, etc.

As you said though, by seconds apparently, no matter what the case may be.

 

[MsBetsy]

I would add I am pretty sure in the criminal complaint the word "radio" is used. I know it could be any station and be something else but "radio" was used. Maybe it is just the word used and it could have been a DVD player, Ipod, whatever. If he turned it up or left it on, and it was a radio, one would think news may be heard. However, I also recall we would go almost a month without any news at times... And are there stations that are all music, etc. and no news?

Yes, you would think if it was the radio she would have heard something. Most stations have news at some point, but sometimes it's just local news, sports or just highlights of "world" news.
There may be some with just music.
I only listen to the radio in my car, but hear the news every morning on my way to the bus stop, and have never heard any news about murder investigations. If anything it's mentioned immediately after the crime, or when there is an arrest. Nothing much about the time in between.
But if she had heard anything at all about the crime, I would think she would have said so when she talked to LE.
It would also be unlikely that Patterson would have allowed her to hear anything, as he probably wouldn't want her to have hope and may have even wanted her to believe that no-one was looking for her and everyone had given up or forgotten about her. Imo

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, my guess is it would have taken a couple of minutes for him to walk through the house and break the door down. Jayme said she knew her father had been killed when they heard the gunshots. I don't think it was specified exactly when they got through to 911. We know the dispatcher tried calling back, so I guess we can assume he had been taping her at that point, and by the time of the third gunshot it was already disconnected.
Maybe the sounds they heard were of him breaking the door down and them screaming. They said all that could be heard was a commotion and yelling. Imo

In the HLN special there was a clip of him saying they could hear several people yelling for help. If one wants to be thrown for a loop, that was the first I had heard that. It must have then been held back or tamped down for investigation purposes is my guess. Only hearing it some day will tell I guess.

 

[ilovechili]

Yes, you would think if it was the radio she would have heard something. Most stations have news at some point, but sometimes it's just local news, sports or just highlights of "world" news.
There may be some with just music.
I only listen to the radio in my car, but hear the news every morning on my way to the bus stop, and have never heard any news about murder investigations. If anything it's mentioned immediately after the crime, or when there is an arrest. Nothing much about the time in between.
But if she had heard anything at all about the crime, I would think she would have said so when she talked to LE.
It would also be unlikely that Patterson would have allowed her to hear anything, as he probably wouldn't want her to have hope and may have even wanted her to believe that no-one was looking for her and everyone had given up or forgotten about her. Imo

i agree that it is unlikely she would have heard on radio news. maybe in the early days, and some stations will do cnn or some such at new after their local. but it was not long in before those stations were not focused on it whatsoever imo. one hardly saw it on TV after the first two weeks and very unlikely on radio news. i also agree he probably would not want her thinking anyone cared or was looking...

edited to fix: i mean *at noon* not *at new*

 

[OhThatVictoria]

I would add I am pretty sure in the criminal complaint the word "radio" is used. I know it could be any station and be something else but "radio" was used. Maybe it is just the word used and it could have been a DVD player, Ipod, whatever. If he turned it up or left it on, and it was a radio, one would think news may be heard. However, I also recall we would go almost a month without any news at times... And are there stations that are all music, etc. and no news?

Doubtful. The majority of radio listening (these days) is done in cars and people rely on radio for local news, weather, traffic etc. The only non-news that I can think of would be satellite radio (and not sure about that since I don’t have it)

 

[human]

I have wondered about the tape too. Double gloved, with a knife or by hand, were their pieces left, etc. Did he buy it when he bought the mask or was it an old roll? I think I read it was an old roll somewhere (per him), said it was squashed or something. Odd remark actually to point that out. Very odd I think. To like explain where it came from or that he had it??

I still have trouble believing he put the gun down and used both hands to tape Jayme unless he beat Denise into submission or something.... These are the kinds of things that may not have been said yet, a complaint is just partial, but fill in the blanks...

Edited to correct: *there* not their lol.

Never thought about the tape! I have never used Gorilla tape. Is it like duct tape?

I find all tape a nightmare.

Double gloved. Would that be medical gloves? They must be easier to do fine work with because doctors use them.

 

[Julia966]

I take it to mean when he was on Hwy 8 he shut things off and coasted into the driveway end near the road. Walked up to the house. The driveway is uphill, I do not see him coasting uphill. She saw him walking up the driveway. So with that basis, he had to drag her out of the house and down the driveway, open the trunk, etc.

As you said though, by seconds apparently, no matter what the case may be.

It doesn't say in the complaint that she saw him walking up the driveway. In fact, it says that the first time she saw him was when she was in the bathroom. It does say, though, that she saw him drive up the driveway. Is the walking up the driveway from another source?

Maybe this has been raised, but I just noticed that there is a contradiction in the complaint between Jayme and JP about the duct tape. Jayme says that JP told her mother to tape Jayme's mouth and her mother did it, while JP says that he had to do it.

 

[OhThatVictoria]

Never thought about the tape! I have never used Gorilla tape. Is it like duct tape?

I find all tape a nightmare.

Double gloved. Would that be medical gloves? They must be easier to do fine work with because doctors use them.

Gorilla is another brand of duct tape. Until this crime, I was only aware of the “duct” tape in a generic sense. I’ve used the Gorilla glue for repairs and it has built a reputation so they extended their brand to duct tape.

Not sure what kind of gloves he wore but you’d think it would be sticky if plastic gloves, cumbersome if cloth gloves.

 

[deugirtni]

Sorry I can't keep up with this thread, and hoping this post is relevant to current discussion! It stood out to me when I first started reading about when JC was located, that it seemed JC knew she was highly 'known', via her words as quoted in many instances of MSM:

""I'm lost, I don't know where I am," the girl said, according to the woman. "I'm Jayme," the girl said.

"I recognized her immediately," the woman, Jeanne Nutter, said Friday."

'I'm Jayme', to me, says she knew that would be enough to identify herself to the stranger she happened upon. She had to have known somehow that she was heavily being searched for and prominent in the news. imo.

'I'm lost, I don't know where I am': Jayme Closs approached strangers after her escape

 

[Doghairrules]

He also killed her because he did not want to leave any witnesses. Denise would have been able to tell LE that Jayme was alive, given a description of his voice, the mask he was wearing, his approximate height, build, and shape and color of his eyes, as well a description of the weapon. Imo

And perhaps a description of the car that would have matched the car the police passed on the way there.

 

[MsBetsy]

In the HLN special there was a clip of him saying they could hear several people yelling for help. If one wants to be thrown for a loop, that was the first I had heard that. It must have then been held back or tamped down for investigation purposes is my guess. Only hearing it some day will tell I guess.

Yes, in the very beginning it was reported by a local news source that Fitzgerald had said the only word that could be heard was "help."
After that he would not comment on it.
So I wouldn't be surprised if they heard it, or at least thought they did. Imo

 

[ilovechili]

Never thought about the tape! I have never used Gorilla tape. Is it like duct tape?

I find all tape a nightmare.

Double gloved. Would that be medical gloves? They must be easier to do fine work with because doctors use them.

it is tougher than duct tape or so they say. i was introduced to it not too long ago. extremely sticky and tough. i would be real surprised when he picked his shotgun back up if his gloves were not sticky and left sticky on the gun... quite honestly...