AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #18

[Herb.Wis]

Why go to the lengths of murder if one only wanted a child bride? One could find plenty of opportunities to find an easy victim, IMO.

Maybe "he" wanted THIS particular girl and psyched himself up to do anything including murder to get her. That would fit the facts -- the few that we have. If he was that obsessed maybe he's keeping her alive. But obviously to do that, he must have some isolated place to hold her. That's why I'm thinking remote homestead or farm. To the east are the Blue Hills. South are remote valleys. West and north is forested. Thousands of remote homes, etc.

 

[Lillymac]

What if Jayme was asleep in her bedroom by the patio/deck door when the perps broke in. She heard the noise and ran out that door and was hiding on the porch.
When the perps exited thru the back patio door they saw her then. Being surprised there was another person they grabbed her up and took her away.
Didn't LE immediately search the dairy farm? Why didn't they immediately go to the neighbor's on the other side. At least to make them aware and warn them?
Also wasn't there a drug related crime across the street in recent days? Or was that just rumor?

 

[HarvestMoon]

I agree. It really doesn't help the case when the public are waiting on updates with non to be had. In today's world people and life move at a rapid pace, yesterday's news is old news and we move on. Even been being drip fed is better than nothing. To keep the public involved it needs to be out there everyday jogging people's memories.
The public begin to think they have been used (which they have) by joining in searches, sleuthing, calling tip lines, putting posters up etc.
I have lived in a few countries and have never experienced LE using the 'less is more' strategy it is actually the reverse. I seriously doubt that releasing anything would be detrimental at this stage of the investigation.
They either know or they don't and I'm going for the later.

Falcon500: might you explain the "less is more" strategy that law enforcement agencies are employing these days?

I understand holding back in the event of going to trial, and for the purpose of eventually bringing in a suspect for questioning- but this seems to be more than that.

 

[Gardener1850]

Ughhhhhhh. Another good one. Hope it's not that though. How aweful. Holding out hope that Jayme is still alive.

*Speculation only*
Even less risky if only the Challenger was stolen and dumped and the SUV was borrowed from a parent or something... Person with Jayme in a stolen Challenger takes the most risk until they have her safely stashed away somewhere, but once they get rid of that car and drive off in their own vehicle they can make up any tale they want about where they were and what they were doing-- they are each other's alibi. I'm trying to maintain hope but if more than one person is involved it seems very unlikely to me that Jayme would still be alive. The only potential upside to more than one perp is that it is harder for 2 people to keep a secret for very long. JMO.
*Speculation only*

ETA: Clearly marking above as speculation to avoid confusion. We don't know if their were two perps or if the cars were their own or stolen or where those cars are now....

 

[human]

I've been thinking about this too. But really, how often is a 13 year old girl alone enough to be abducted without the cops quickly getting on the trail? She's either with family, friends, or at school. In the daytime lots of people are out and that highway 8 is busy. Not so at 1 a.m. But as you said, how did the perp know that Mr. Closs himself wouldn't be armed? At 1 a.m. you don't expect visitors to be family or friends but more likely a stranger, possibly with bad intent. Unless the perp already knew that Closs didn't have a gun (did he?). Then he didn't care and took a big risk. Many people around here have guns. That level of boldness says much about the perp's mentality. Drugs? Crazed determination to take the girl? Like some others, I think Jayme is still in the area and was targeted by someone able to observe her and learn where she lived. Somebody flying below the cop's radar screen.

If someone comes to the door , the first thought is not to shoot the person at the door . But the perp who comes to murder will shoot the person at the door. Easy.

 

[human]

It is entirely possible to have 'city' public utility water and be on septic.

I think the critical discussion was about having a septic vs. city sewer.

 

[Herb.Wis]

I would think there are some things , though, because of the weapon, kicking in the door, the crime scene , that indicate a personality type.

I would think that perhaps the level has increased and it indicates a type of person who has done another type of crime.

For instance, it seems that many mass shooters have DV in their backgrounds. So do elements of this crime have precursors?

I agree that the violent entry, killings, and abduction indicate a personality type but not so much the rest. This guy may not have a criminal record and on the surface may be meek and mild. If he had a violent police record, wouldn't the cops have rooted him out by now? Unless he's not of the area, but I'm assuming he is.

 

[Bugurl747]

Maybe "he" wanted THIS particular girl and psyched himself up to do anything including murder to get her. That would fit the facts -- the few that we have. If he was that obsessed maybe he's keeping her alive. But obviously to do that, he must have some isolated place to hold her. That's why I'm thinking remote homestead or farm. To the east are the Blue Hills. South are remote valleys. West and north is forested. Thousands of remote homes, etc.

There aren't any facts linking someone to Jayme at this point, or her parents. It could just as easily be random. This case is so frustrating due to lack of details/evidence/leads.
I was hoping LE would find something via the electronics confiscated and reviewed linking a suspect but that hasn't been the case.

 

[human]

I agree. It really doesn't help the case when the public are waiting on updates with non to be had. In today's world people and life move at a rapid pace, yesterday's news is old news and we move on. Even been being drip fed is better than nothing. To keep the public involved it needs to be out there everyday jogging people's memories.
The public begin to think they have been used (which they have) by joining in searches, sleuthing, calling tip lines, putting posters up etc.
I have lived in a few countries and have never experienced LE using the 'less is more' strategy it is actually the reverse. I seriously doubt that releasing anything would be detrimental at this stage of the investigation.
They either know or they don't and I'm going for the later.

I so agree. This will be old news next week as another horror will have occurred. I like the drip idea. It will keep this case alive. As tacky as my remark will be seen, dripping info will be like a serial story on TV and will keep people engaged.

 

[Suglo]

What do I type into you tube - the victim surname?

Here’s a great timeline with links of the case.

A timeline of crimes with connections to the Grunwald case

 

[human]

Maybe "he" wanted THIS particular girl and psyched himself up to do anything including murder to get her. That would fit the facts -- the few that we have. If he was that obsessed maybe he's keeping her alive. But obviously to do that, he must have some isolated place to hold her. That's why I'm thinking remote homestead or farm. To the east are the Blue Hills. South are remote valleys. West and north is forested. Thousands of remote homes, etc.

Or he could keep her in his own urban home surrounded by neighbors only feet away. The Turpins managed to keep their house of horrors feet away from other homes.

 

[Gardener1850]

Wait. What??? Anyone know anything more about the northern Michigan thing?

It's mentioned by the reporter without any details about halfway through the video at this link: Authorities dropping 24/7 ground operation as search for Jayme Closs continues

I don't take it as especially relevant, however, as it is mentioned along with the not credible Miami tip as a "possible sighting" in the reporter's words. If there was a tip called in from Northern Michigan that the reporter is somehow aware of, it seems it turned out to be a false lead. I don't think we were ever told about it, just like we were not told about the specifics of most of the tips called in and ruled out. It's also possible the reporter has read social media comments on the dispatch call log which references Northern Michigan and the reporter is confused or stating his opinion, not a fact he knows. JMO.

 

[charminglane]

If the red/orange car was owned by a local, LE would know who owned it.
If the red/orange car had been stolen from anywhere in the country, LE would know that.
This tells me that even if LE don't have the WHO yet, they do have something to work with at least as far as pertains to the owners of the vehicles.

 

[Herb.Wis]

If someone comes to the door , the first thought is not to shoot the person at the door . But the perp who comes to murder will shoot the person at the door. Easy.

That's my take. Mr. Closs answered the door not expecting trouble but someone whose car broke down or ran out of gas. Then, I'm guessing, the perp saw that Closs wasn't armed and out came his gun. Closs saw that and tried to shut the door, but the perp kicked it open and shot Closs. Then he barged in and did the rest. That he was gone in 4 minutes with Jayme proves to me that he went there to abduct her and had the whole thing planned ahead of time.

 

[cluciano63]

LE can’t make a profile without knowing the “why” and/or the target. This seems to be too unusual a crime.

 

[human]

I agree that the violent entry, killings, and abduction indicate a personality type but not so much the rest. This guy may not have a criminal record and on the surface may be meek and mild. If he had a violent police record, wouldn't the cops have rooted him out by now? Unless he's not of the area, but I'm assuming he is.

I keep reading Herbster when I look at your name.

Highway 8 has 6000 cars a day according to a poster who found that info on a website. I cannot remember who the poster was or the site.

Anyway, as you know, Barron is close to Rice Lake. Rice Lake is on 53 which connects to the ability to go to Chicago or Minneapolis or Duluth and points north. Or it will connect to 35 which brings one to Texas.

I have been on 53 many times going to visit a friend in Milwaukee. I cannot remember when the semi traffic gets intense, but there are a lot of vehicles somewhere south of Rice Lake.

I doubt if it is a semi driver. A truck parked by their house would be memorable to someone.

When I drove those roads, I always wonderd why someone would live in the middle of nowhere down a long driveway.
It seemed so scary with anyone simply driving by.

For some bizarro killer as OBE has posted over and over, a house at midnight on a Sunday night would seem like an easy kill.

Since the Short killer has never been found, we don’t know if he observed the family, It seems like Duncan watched the family.

Did some random perp watch the family?

If the person is not from the area, what do they use for money to eat and buy gas? Do they sleep in their car or where does someone like Dumcan stay?

 

[HarvestMoon]

I keep reading Herbster when I look at your name.

Highway 8 has 6000 cars a day according to a poster who found that info on a website. I cannot remember who the poster was or the site.

Anyway, as you know, Barron is close to Rice Lake. Rice Lake is on 53 which connects to the ability to go to Chicago or Minneapolis or Duluth and points north. Or it will connect to 35 which brings one to Texas.

I have been on 53 many times going to visit a friend in Milwaukee. I cannot remember when the semi traffic gets intense, but there are a lot of vehicles somewhere south of Rice Lake.

I doubt if it is a semi driver. A truck parked by their house would be memorable to someone.

When I drove those roads, I always wonderd why someone would live in the middle of nowhere down a long driveway.
It seemed so scary with anyone simply driving by.

For some bizarro killer as OBE has posted over and over, a house at midnight on a Sunday night would seem like an easy kill.

Since the Short killer has never been found, we don’t know if he observed the family, It seems like Duncan watched the family.

Did some random perp watch the family?

If the person is not from the area, what do they use for money to eat and buy gas? Do they sleep in their car or where does someone like Dumcan stay?

Duncan stayed in National Parks IIRC.

 

[margarita25]

Thinking more about @human ‘s post re: what possible inferences can we make profile-wise (with the very limited factual information we have), I think these would vary in some ways depending on how we approach it as related to motive.

Meaning, if I/we knew for absolute certain that Jayme was the intended target for pedophelic/SA reasons, then elements within that profile would vary from one that say, hypothetically, is based on a revenge motive towards the parents, etc.

Therefore when approaching an “inferred” potential profile I’ll call it, we would have to list all the different possible motives and perhaps approach it that way.

In addition/at the same time, we could see what commonalities these would share so as to create one which could be applicable to all potential motives.

—-ETA: really missing @Foxfire ‘s input here.

 

[JnRyan]

Your father would have been shot the minute he showed his face, The killer with a gun has the total advantage of being prepared.

Maybe, maybe not. Tell that to the sailor who shot and killed an armed home invader a few years ago in Virginia Beach. The would-be invader did the same thing, he kicked in the door and was hit multiple times with 9mm rounds. In my father's case he had replaced both doors and frames with solid wood doors. The would-be invader would have taken the door down but by that time he would have been a sitting duck in that doorway. There's a reason LE refers to a doorway as a 'vertical coffin'.

 

[Herb.Wis]

There aren't any facts linking someone to Jayme at this point, or her parents. It could just as easily be random. This case is so frustrating due to lack of details/evidence/leads.
I was hoping LE would find something via the electronics confiscated and reviewed linking a suspect but that hasn't been the case.

Possiblity random, but from the rapid way the perp shot Closs, got inside the house, dispatched the mom, possibly hung up the (real) 911 call, and then departed with Jayme in 4 minutes flat (I discount the neighbor hearing the kill shots at 12:30 a.m.), tells me this was a planned targeted mission carried out with military like precision. Lack of known internet trail points to someone local who possibly observed Jayme and became fixated on her.