AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #22

[Trino]

Do you remember the Brianna Denison case? Murder of Brianna Denison - Wikipedia
What if she was grabbed out of bed?

But, not violently or breaking down a door.

 

[photographer4]

We don’t know that Jayme was there during the call. We do not know what time she and Denise got home from the party. We do not know if Jayme was in that house at all that evening.

We have been told by LE though that *they* believe she was home at the time of the killing and 911 call. They've not told us much just that they have evidence from the 911 call and the scene to indicate that she was home at the time.

 

[cody22]

Did they have a house phone?

Disconnected land line, if my memory is correct.

 

[cherrymeg]

It could be. They haven't seemed to rule anything out. There has been a lot of discussion on the possibility that they were not actually the intended targets, and the killer went to the wrong house. But then it makes it difficult to explain why they or he took Jayme. It would appear it was a last minute decision and many think she was targeted and murdering the parents was a last minute decision. Hard to say, there are so many possibilities. Jmo

People willing to burglarize a house might think lets take this girl. If they killed people at the wrong house then they possibly aren't super bright but they wouldn't have any ties to the Closs's and what's kidnapping compared to double homicide?

 

[MsBetsy]

Your guess is as good as mine. I have only ever fired handguns while standing up at a shooting range. I've never tried laying on the floor and shooting. I've seen a lot of Mythbusters episodes and watched a lot of crime TV shows and that is all I have to pull from as far as my speculation that someone struggling with an assailant and a handgun on the floor could accidentally fire toward a chair in a slight upward direction. In my scenario the chair would not have been "used" for anything. My new working theory is that the chair wasn't in the line of fire between the gunman and the intended target, it was possibly hit because of a struggle with the gun. JMO.

Yes, I've always thought there was some kind of struggle, especially from what we know of the sounds on the 911 call. We just don't know exactly what or for how long. Jmo

 

[cody22]

There is also the possibility that there was no other reason this particular family was chosen other than the killer just wanted to murder and abduct a 13 year old. He may have picked that particular house because it was isolated and could not be seen by any neighbors. Also there are many possible escape routes. He may have scoped out the area in advance and figured out the most likely route LE would make to the house and picked one of the routes that are the least travelled. They seem to think he travelled on that 14 mile stretch of road. Maybe he took some back roads that lead to the other road to bypass or avoid anyone seeing him in the minutes after the crime. Jmo

Like driving North toward Rice Lake where the big search and later helicopter searches took place ?

 

[Gardener1850]

By the perp/s or just not needed? Sorry this has probably been discussed.

I don't think we really know. I've seen a lot of anecdotal descriptions for what happens when you cut a line (ringing and ringing) versus what happens when someone simply ends their service (operator message saying the number has been disconnected). All it says in the dispatch log is that the operator tried to call the landline number for the Closs house and it had been disconnected. We don't know if she heard ringing or if she got a message saying it had been disconnected. I would like to see something more concrete before I decide the line wasn't cut by the perp(s). JMO.

The line about the phone being disconnected is on page 4 (if you select the little double arrow you can select tools and rotate the page view to see the document easier): http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

 

[cherrymeg]

But, not violently or breaking down a door.

Not that part but her friends still slept through someone kidnapping her. Jayme would have been in her own bed. Some people sleep deeply.

 

[MsBetsy]

People willing to burglarize a house might think lets take this girl. If they killed people at the wrong house then they possibly aren't super bright but they wouldn't have any ties to the Closs's and what's kidnapping compared to double homicide?

Right. Especially when you figure in the possibility of the killer being in a drug fueled state. Imo

 

[WiseOwl]

This might in reference to the nearest neighbors hearing 2 gunshots around 12:30 and the 911 call coming in a few minutes before 1:00. This would seem to indicate it took 25 minutes.

Of course, this is if you place a lot of belief in the neighbors stating they heard the shots at 12:30. In the last week or so, I'm starting to doubt that part of the timeline. IOW, the only timeline I'm comfortable with is from the 911 call onward. According to the witness, they looked at their clock at the time of the gun shots and stated it was 12:37 and LE told them their clock was 7 minutes fast. What if, in all the confusion, it was actually 7 minutes SLOW. (It wouldn't be the first mistake the media has made in reporting.) That would put the call at about quarter to one. If the killer(s) shot James early on and Jayme was the target, why stay 25-30 minutes, when they could be out and gone in 5-10 minutes? But then, I'm trying to apply logic to situation that doesn't appear to have much logic involved.

I agree with you on this one. However i do think that LE tended to believe the neighbours statement of the time they heard the gunshots (although its never been confirmed), and we know LE were looking at footage of vehicles of interest in the area between 12.30 - 1.30 that night. I can only presume they started looking at 12.30 because of the neighbours statement?

 

[Zelda1010]

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This assumes a whole lot though... it assumes his feet were near the door, or holding it open in whole or in part. It might not be that way though. The door may have been open enough that they saw Jim's feet but nothing more. If he was against a hall wall, his feet may have been visible if he slumped down a wall. We don't know how wide the door was open, just that it was open and police saw feet. Interesting to note they didn't say they saw a body. It was that omission that made me think only his feet were visible initially. Is that b/c poor lighting? The way he landed? Was he moved after he was shot? We don't know. They didn't initially note a lot of blood either. Just man down, multiple rounds spent. Makes ya wonder what the scene really looked like doesn't it?

Heck. Imo, the sheriff says they saw what appeared to be feet or something to that effect. Are we sure that they confirmed upon further inspection that it actually was his feet that were visible through the open door upon arrival?

Jmo

 

[Trino]

Not that part but her friends still slept through someone kidnapping her. Jayme would have been in her own bed. Some people sleep deeply.

Just don't think anyone would sleep through a door being kicked in, two people shot, amid probable commotion as indicated on the phone call.

 

[Rosiebones]

Why would they call a school security officer for that information instead of one of her sisters? The difference between what records at a school show and what actually is known by the family to be true. Also, perhaps, Jayme's bed was not slept in, wrinkled blankets etc. indicating the crime may have happened much earlier than we think.

 

[1987]

Why would they call a school security officer for that information instead of one of her sisters? The difference between what records at a school show and what actually is known by the family to be true. Also, perhaps, Jayme's bed was not slept in, wrinkled blankets etc. indicating the crime may have happened much earlier than we think.

I think they called the school officer because of speed of knowing. LE may not have even knew of other family yet.

 

[MsBetsy]

We don’t know that Jayme was there during the call. We do not know what time she and Denise got home from the party. We do not know if Jayme was in that house at all that evening.

True, but we do know she was there at the time of the murder. So it makes sense that she was there at the time of the call, or that she may be the one who called. Imo

 

[cherrymeg]

I think they called the school officer because of speed of knowing. LE may not have even knew of other family yet.

If it was a school day she should be at school. If she isn't there the school would also have next of kin or people allowed to call her out or pick her in their records.

 

[girlhasnoname]

How do we know the 911 call was delayed at all? We don't know for definite the timeline of events that night.

BBM
I'm glad you posted this as I was just in the process of posting something similar. LE has never outright confirmed the timing of the neighbors hearing gunshots.

Please humor me but what if...………

The neighbor did mistakenly look at the clock and it was more along the lines of 12:51 vs 12:31 as others here mentioned. Easy mistake to make especially for someone whose older (eyesight wise) and in bed. She also mentioned her dog altering to something around 1:00 am (the getaway?)

I set my stop watch time for approx. 7 minutes (start of call to officers arriving on scene). Wow that was an eye opener, it was a long time!! I actually went to my front door and imitated the actions, ie confrontation/altercation with JC, DC somewhere behind him dials 911 after first shots drops the phone in front living room area runs with Jayme to bathroom/back bedroom locking them in using the chair as a barricade. Perp breaks in and shoots DC (maybe that's why neighbors didn't hear another shot) grabs Jayme and blazes out of there.

The phone could have been far enough to only hear noise/commotion like "Jayme I love you I can't live without you, I'd rather die" etc. (possible reason suicide dispatch??) Perp sees it/hears 911 operator and disables it on way out. Plenty of time for this to happen.

JMO plus my DH thinks I am way too invested in this. He was my perp in this scenario

 

[debirlfan]

It could be. They haven't seemed to rule anything out. There has been a lot of discussion on the possibility that they were not actually the intended targets, and the killer went to the wrong house. But then it makes it difficult to explain why they or he took Jayme. It would appear it was a last minute decision and many think she was targeted and murdering the parents was a last minute decision. Hard to say, there are so many possibilities. Jmo

If someone has both the Closs address, and the neighboring address where the arrest/arrests were made shortly after the abduction, could someone PM them to me (or post, and PM me a link so I don't miss it, please.) I'd like to see if there's any way someone looking for the other house might mistakenly arrive at the Closs house. Thanks in advance.

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree with you on this one. However i do think that LE tended to believe the neighbours statement of the time they heard the gunshots (although its never been confirmed), and we know LE were looking at footage of vehicles of interest in the area between 12.30 - 1.30 that night. I can only presume they started looking at 12.30 because of the neighbours statement?

I assumed they included the time he may have been seen on the way to and from the scene, including the time of the murder. They didn't include the time before 12:30, so it would seem that they believe he would have been there by that time. As opposed to on the way, which I would think would include at least 15 minutes before the 12:30 time specified. Jmo

 

[pepper 34]

This scenario in general only makes sense if you're part of the same circle, so to speak. Otherwise, you're right. A message wouldn't be received if you have two people in different places who weren't aware of each other. (Although links to online news stories, texts to check out an upcoming broadcast, etc. could also make someone become aware. And sometimes more tangible "proof" is shown: ie. photos, a souvenir, etc.)

I don't think that the Closses were involved in anything illegal. I still think someone on the periphery became fixated on Jayme. The initial conversation only started because someone asked why a perp would kill a victim over a debt since dead people can't pay. There ARE reasons why it might happen, though I don't think those are relevant to this crime.

I don't think gambling was involved either. At least it's not high on my list of scenarios. However, this is sleuthing site and the subject of gambling, especially in a town that has a casino, was bound to come up. If either parent indulged, they were only doing what millions of people are doing world wide. We often ignore the disgusting underbelly of crime and corruption that has forever been attached to it. In a fair and honest world it would be a fun and harmless game. But, we all know it's not. I see anyone involved in gambling (James or Denise, included) as a victim from the get go. "Play" long enough and you lose, just like you lose at the small town carnival sites. Classic victimology situation, imo. By that fact alone, imo, Jaymes or Denise can't possibly be to blame for anything at all.