AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #8

[Trino]

i have been thinking of motive as we all have.

Someone posted that dad went to the door because he heard it being kicked in and was shot. That makes sense.

So to me that says dad was not the target. He is dead. Finished , Move on.

There were pictures of the kicked in door in a precious thread. The frame was not splintered. It was the door that was cracked and the door appeared to be at least two i ches thick. Think of how strong a kick it would take to crack a thick wooden door.

Perhaps others think kicking in a door is easy. I would think that in order for someone to think this is a good method, there would have to ve practice. Perhaps this method has been used before.

Mamy people have hollow core doors in their home which are easy to punch in. The exterior door is not like the doors many people have in their homes.

So what was the point of the home invasion?

Homes "up north," which this sort of is, often are homeowner projects. I doubt the front door was hollow, but it might not have been the best quality. Was the door battered, or was the lock kicked in, meaning the killer knew how to kick in a door (kick the lock). It would be interesting to see a photo of the door, which could indicate military experience. From the battering of the door scenario the killer must have been younger and, most likely, wore hard soled shoes. Why not try to get into the house quietly? Vendetta or hired hit?
In such a rural area the killer could have parked anywhere without creating attention. You just pretty much keep to yourself, and people don't ask.

 

[Inthedetails]

I've been trying out different theories, none of which really work. What about this one:

Jayme was the target of this perp. Who would target her? She doesn't fit with trafficking - she is not a vulnerable youth, but a young teen fully involved with family, school, activities. She is not involved with a custody battle. She's a young 13 year old who from all appearance is wholesome, innocent, quiet, sweet.

Who would be especially interested in her in this way? I'm wondering if it is someone with a particular interest in her innocence and sweetness. I'm thinking someone like the perp who took Elizabeth Smart. Someone who wanted her as a "wife." In this scenario, the perp likely had a place ready to keep her after he abducted her. It's likely a well-hidden place.

If this is the case, there is good hope she is alive. We just need to find her.

I don't have a top theory, but this is one on my list.

jmopinion, speculation only.

 

[NervousNellie]

Unknown subject of an investigation

unidentified subject

Thanks!

 

[Charliegizmo49]

While your theory’s are good, and possible, there’s one big loose end.

The dog was Jaymes and if I know dogs and I do, it would be going crazy and following her scent. Especially since a dog has the ability to sense the “fight or flee” hormones adrenaline we emit when upset. I’m wondering if the dog was isolated and perhaps LE didn’t listen to it when they arrived.

I understand the dog would be upset regardless, but it’s still possible since Jayme and the dog were so close that the dog would have pursued her first.

And the other odd thing is the rumor or fact that the father was able to answer the door.

I know adrenaline can cause a last minute show of strength, but is it likely?

LE seems to believe Jayme was alive and was abducted from the House. Did the father tell them that as a dying utterance? Do not know for certain.

Is that the reason the police log was changed from a suicide call to a double homicide a time later? Don’t know

Usually if LE and EMTs arrive and find someone alive skills and medical tech can save lives.

When did EMTs arrive and was Mr. Closs dead at that time, did he die enroute
or at the hospital?

Was he the source of info that Jayme was alive when she was taken?

Where was the dog found?

What did the 911 operator hear on the recorded open call from the mother’s cell phone?


Did Jayme have a boyfriend?

There have been several references to a caregiver and the dog being a service animal. 13-15 is the age I began to trust a child to spend time alone at home.

Was Jayme home alone after school?

Did her parents arrive minutes later with a stranger having enteredmoments before?

Was one parent home with Jayme and the other areived home a few minutes earlier.


Jayme recently turned 13. That tween stage when daughters sometimes go a bit sideways due to adolescence, horror mones ( my name in dubious honor to my own daughter) and just simply transitioning into lovely young woman.

Did Jayme have a developmental issue?

Where had the Closs family visited in the days prior to this incident? Is there any cctv coverage to see if anyone was following them or simply watching the Closs family?

Are there cameras

Have the cell towers been able to produce every phone in range during the few hours leading up to this incident?

 

[SharonNeedles]

Snipped by me.

Or...he did recognize who it was and knew it was a threat.

IDK.

jmo

That’s an interesting thought... I don’t think he initially thought there was a threat, but I can see a scenario where he gets to the door and realizes there’s a threat and doesn’t open the door.

 

[Medstudies]

Oh wow. The father answered the door for LE? I wander if this is how they know Jayme was taken?

The local news is interesting.

From the local press article you posted:
“About 4 minutes after the call, deputies arrived at the house. Dispatch records state that James Closs answered the door. On Friday afternoon, Fitzgerald was asked if that was accurate in the dispatch logs that James Closs had answered the door, he said yes.

After more discussion with Fitzgerald on Saturday morning, [Fitzgerald said he was not releasing any information about how the door got opened. He said when the deputies arrived at the house, James was found dead at the door. When asked whether a deputy had kicked in the door, Fitzgerald said he could not comment due to an active investigation.”...

Grammatically, this can be interpreted different ways. It’s possible James answered the door for the police (when 911 call was made but deceased when LE arrived)

Pure speculation. Going back to lurk mode.

 

[DocBrew]

Okay so they purportedly confirmed that the father was deceased when they arrived. How then do they know for certain that Jayme was there and was taken? That has been bothering me, because for LE to assert that with such conviction they would have to have something rather concrete to confirm it. Any thoughts/ideas other than they were told so?

 

[human]

Homes "up north," which this sort of is, often are homeowner projects. I doubt the front door was hollow, but it might not have been the best quality. Was the door battered, or was the lock kicked in, meaning the killer knew how to kick in a door (kick the lock). It would be interesting to see a photo of the door, which could indicate military experience. From the battering of the door scenario the killer must have been younger and, most likely, wore hard soled shoes. Why not try to get into the house quietly? Vendetta or hired hit?
In such a rural area the killer could have parked anywhere without creating attention. You just pretty much keep to yourself, and people don't ask.

I wish the picture of the door could be shown on here. It was a couple of threads ago?

The break was maybe three inches from the frame. And the door was clearly at least two solid inches thick. Maybe it was weakened by dry rot or carpenter ants. But it is clearly a thick sold core door.

 

[NervousNellie]

The second thing that’s perplexing me this morning is the dog. I mentioned this early on that approaching a rural house like this is going to be brazen, you’ve got to assume that the house probably has a dog and a gun. In this area at a property like this you’re probably going to be right on both counts 75% of the time. As soon as you pull into the driveway the dog knows it.

If you pull into my driveway at night and approach my house, my dog is going to let me know about it before you get out of your car. I’m theorizing here that dad might have done exactly as I would do: check to see what the dog’s barking at and see that it’s a car pulling into the driveway, then put the dog away and go to the door. Unless I think there’s immediate danger, I don’t want that dog at my feet raising a ruckus when I’m trying to answer the door and figure out who it is and what they want.

This would totally explain why dad was initially killed at the doorway and why the dog was unharmed. I’d also theorize that this suggests dad knew somebody was approaching and didn’t feel that it was an immediate threat - and that to me is significant. It tells me that dad obviously didn’t see somebody toting a 12 gauge up towards the house or anything else that appeared to be an immediate threat. However, he didn’t unlock and open the door either which tells me he didn’t recognize who it is.

Great thoughts (as usual), but both my dogs are older and very hard of hearing. I’m sometimes home for several minutes before they even know I’m in the house. Though sometimes I notice they will hear the garage door open when my husband gets home later. (I think they are likely asleep when they don’t hear me come in.)

 

[Trebor5591]

This information is from Radaronline:

...an FBI source told Radar, “There is a report that someone allegedly knocked on the door and as the father went to answer it gunfire erupted through the door. That has not been confirmed yet as it’s an active investigation.”

“The mother appeared to have barricaded herself in the bathroom and called police,” added the insider, explaining that she was not able to reach the 911 dispatcher before being killed."

FBI Source Reveals Bombshell: 'We Know 100 Percent' That Jayme Closs Is Alive

 

[cybervampira]

Looking at everything again this morning with a strong cup of coffee and fresh eyes, two things stick out that I’ve got to know more about. The first:

I think maybe I was too quick to discount that this could be drug related, actually I think I tend to believe it’s never drug related unless it very obviously is. I don’t think I really grasped how bad the meth problem is in this area, now I’m starting to see how dangerous and violent it really is up there. As some of the more astute WSers have noted, no matter what theory we consider something just doesn’t fit. We’re trying to theorize how a murderer or abductor is supposed to act based on what we know from previous cases. Throw in a perp that’s been up for four days straight hopped up on meth and all bets are off.

Exactly. There‘s no way to apply rational thinking if meth is involved. And Wisconsin has a major meth problem:

Meth: A Growing Problem in Wisconsin

Wisconsin crime labs analyzed 300 meth cases in 2010.
By 2017 the number jumped close to 1,700– a nearly 500 percent increase.

Barron Co. Sheriff issues passionate plea to end meth epidemic in western WI

Meth monster returns to Chippewa Valley and is extending its reach

“This is the No. 1 problem in northwestern Wisconsin,” Barron County Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said. “It will soon be the No. 1 drug in the state of Wisconsin. I’m predicting that.”

Containers to help Wisconsin law officers with meth cleanup

Barron County Sheriff Wants Drug Testing In High Schools

Meth crisis rocks Wis. - Winona Post > Article

The epidemic does not just result in crimes of possession and sale of the drug; meth use contributes to other crimes such as armed robbery, battery, child endangerment, domestic and sexual assault, burglary, prostitution, and other crimes.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Trying to go with Occam's razor, but nothing seems to fit.

That is what I always apply in all cases. What is the simplest way to get a straight line from A to Z based on the evidence and circumstances known..

When I apply OR it all falls inline for me.

Which is ..the two murders happened because they were the two threats the killer knew he would face.

The intent was
to kidnap Jayme to be sexually assaulted. Imo

I do not see any evidence this had anything to do with drugs being done by Jayme or her parents. However the murderer may be a drug user or may not be.

All of it falls in place for me when I apply OR logic.

Jmo

 

[DocBrew]

The local news is interesting.

Great catch!

 

[mickey2942]

Wait, did LEO kick in the door? Or the perp?

 

[Jax49]

Okay so they purportedly confirmed that the father was deceased when they arrived. How then do they know for certain that Jayme was there and was taken? That has been bothering me, because for LE to assert that with such conviction they would have to have something rather concrete to confirm it. Any thoughts/ideas other than they were told so?

Local media makes it clear the sheriff said the father was dead when LE arrived. Perhaps they heard her on the 911 call?

 

[Gopherfacts]

The second thing that’s perplexing me this morning is the dog. I mentioned this early on that approaching a rural house like this is going to be brazen, you’ve got to assume that the house probably has a dog and a gun. In this area at a property like this you’re probably going to be right on both counts 75% of the time. As soon as you pull into the driveway the dog knows it.

If you pull into my driveway at night and approach my house, my dog is going to let me know about it before you get out of your car. I’m theorizing here that dad might have done exactly as I would do: check to see what the dog’s barking at and see that it’s a car pulling into the driveway, then put the dog away and go to the door. Unless I think there’s immediate danger, I don’t want that dog at my feet raising a ruckus when I’m trying to answer the door and figure out who it is and what they want.

This would totally explain why dad was initially killed at the doorway and why the dog was unharmed. I’d also theorize that this suggests dad knew somebody was approaching and didn’t feel that it was an immediate threat - and that to me is significant. It tells me that dad obviously didn’t see somebody toting a 12 gauge up towards the house or anything else that appeared to be an immediate threat. However, he didn’t unlock and open the door either which tells me he didn’t recognize who it is.

 

[ashley smith]

Ive heard a few people that have been interviewed that knew Jayme, and they stated she always very caring, that she was generous and wanted to help the poor. Maybe she was involved in some volunteer work? Maybe at a homeless shelter or helping the poor? Could someone take a liking to her if she was involved in that kind volunteer work?

 

[Pennysmom1]

I'm sure LE is already doing this, but do you think they question everyone such as her bus driver, pastor or religious teacher, etc? Even as far as a pizza delivery person who could have delivered there? I mean, you don't want to accuse anyone, but then again a 13 yr old girl is missing and they should follow up with anyone who has interaction with her. I really question the neighbor's changing timeline with the gunshots and time they got home that night. Why so many versions?

 

[Quill]

Why would the perp kick in the door?

Dad goes to door because he hears knocking or doorbell,

Then what? He asks who is there and they kick in the door which would take time.

The frame is not splintered. The actual several inched thick door is splintered as shown in the previous thread.

Not a hollow core door.

So why does dad simply not open the door? Why is he there while they are kicking it in?

What if:

What if Dad opened the door, maybe only slightly and then realizing something was off (sees a gun, sees someone he knows is a danger etc) and then tries to close the door quickly?

Just a thought that occurred to me yesterday while thoughts were swirling around the whole "door" issue. These are JMO and random thoughts. Other thoughts and opinions on this school of thought are welcomed.

 

[Buddha_with_mace]

Looking at everything again this morning with a strong cup of coffee and fresh eyes, two things stick out that I’ve got to know more about. The first:

I think maybe I was too quick to discount that this could be drug related, actually I think I tend to believe it’s never drug related unless it very obviously is. I don’t think I really grasped how bad the meth problem is in this area, now I’m starting to see how dangerous and violent it really is up there. As some of the more astute WSers have noted, no matter what theory we consider something just doesn’t fit. We’re trying to theorize how a murderer or abductor is supposed to act based on what we know from previous cases. Throw in a perp that’s been up for four days straight hopped up on meth and all bets are off.

This is what I've felt for a few days now, nothing else makes sense to me, under the influence of drugs, or a psychotic mental illness, unfortunately though, I do still believe the basis of the crime is sexual in nature, add one of the other two, (or both) to the mix and it becomes a frenzied, nonsensical murder/abduction scenario.

 

[Gopherfacts]

Can anyone confirm if dad was working that day? Initial reports said Jayme and mom attended family event earlier in the day, but James didn’t because he was at work