WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977

[Keiri]

I wonder if they searched for Robert along Tower Rd (formerly known as Albrecht Road at time of Robert's disappearance) and McLeisch Rd between the relay tower and the retreat? (Both roads merge at the Sauk/Columbia County line) The 'friend' of Robert may have been driving east away from the relay tower in his own vehicle with the front plate that he'd taken off Robert's vehicle, stopped in the driveway of the retreat on McLeisch Rd around 8/8:30 pm, ransacked the house, was surprised by the woman from Mauston and by the nun, gave an excuse about looking for his friend Bob, then left going northeast on McLeisch Rd which intersects with Durward's Glen Rd (which is on the way to Baraboo). Where he was going is unknown (maybe to dispose of Robert's body), but he may have returned, took Robert's license plate off his own vehicle and tossed it into the bushes next to Robert's already-stripped car and then most likely left. I highly doubt it was Robert who spoke to the woman from Mauston. Why would he say he was looking for himself? It's very possible that the person actually was a friend of Bob. Did Bob meet a friend of his on the was to Randy's house? Whoever it was seemed to know his way around Bob's hunting area.

Robert left Madison at 5:30 pm, travel time from Madison to the retreat area is about one hour. So, from 6:30 pm to 8 pm/8:30 pm, 1.5-2 hours, that vehicle could have been stripped.

Note: Gacy was raised Catholic (he used a rosary to demonstrate how he strangled his victims) and the retreat was a Catholic retreat so maybe there's a connection there? (If Gacy was even the one involved)
Another note: Gacy drove a newer Oldsmobile at the time of his arrest. I suppose one could speculate as to when he bought it or if tires from an AMC Hornet are even interchangeable with an Olds.
MOO.

Personally given the timing of his Pittsburg trip and killing of the other Robert, and the fact nobody outside of Illinois has been found that is a Gacy victim confirmed, it seems so unrealistic already. Then you add he was driving a late model olds which were long long boxes, compared to the medium sized hatchback wood grain hornet… nobody would have mistaken one of those for a hornet, even me. Then on top you add that even if gmc tires and olds tires could be switched, they might look funny or not even fit (I googled this and dear god I’m out of my element. Car people, please help us and do your thing.) this was all just such a weird idea that was probably just a throwaway line in a bunch of brainstorming. I’m seriously back to trying to find solved burglaries and robberies in Sauk county around then.

 

[BooImAGhost]

Where would one search for burglaries in the Baraboo area in the 1970's? I know sometimes online newspapers can be helpful but is there anywhere else to look?

 

[Keiri]

Where would one search for burglaries in the Baraboo area in the 1970's? I know sometimes online newspapers can be helpful but is there anywhere else to look?

the sheriff probably has ways to check, but I have been digging through the commercial newspaper sites. Haven’t finished though.

 

[Valiant]

The wheels from the Hornet would not fit an Oldsmobile. Depending on the model of the Oldsmobile, it might have 14” tires like the Hornet. A full size Oldsmobile would have 15” tires.

 

[Keiri]

I emailed the detective with some of these facts about Gacy and timeline, etc, and also suggested if we’re considering serial, Edward Edwards. I got a response acknowledging they knew Gacy was a long shot, and that they would look into Edwards. I never really think serial killer but you never know, it’s not impossible. I am shocked there’s been no hits on any evidence databases.

 

[Keiri]

The articles say “near durwards glen” not in it. Any idea of the nun’s house’s location?

 

[Keiri]

I went up today. I have pictures. This is the view from Tower Road to the old tower location.

It is private property and you cannot go on it so you have to accept my zoom. This is the clearing. The thing in the back center is a load of mud/dirt with some snow. The entire clearing and road is about one foot higher than the forest around it.

This is the map of Durward's Glen

 

[Quoththeraven]

Did Gacy have help?
Stephenson and Becker say a review of Gacy’s travel and work records and other court documents indicates he was out of town when Nelson and Gilroy disappeared...

Gilroy vanished on Sept. 15, 1977, between 5 p.m., when he talked to his girlfriend by telephone, and 6 p.m., when he failed to show up at a bus stop for a trip to an equestrian-riding class, the lawyers told the Sun-Times and WGN. But a copy of a plane ticket shows Gacy flew to Pittsburgh on Sept. 12 and didn’t return to Chicago until the night of Sept. 16, the lawyers say...

Nelson went missing on Oct. 19, 1977. A friend told police Nelson vanished that evening while they were outside a disco bar in Chicago. But Nelson’s mother said the friend later gave her a different account and also repeatedly asked her for money to help find him...

Since Robert Christian disappeared the evening of Sept 16, it's possible, but unlikely IMO, Gacy was also up in Wisconsin that night. It's also possible he had others find victims for him as lawyers in this article claim.

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[Keiri]

Yeah, totally not Gacy.
What struck me the most about this trip was how amazingly out of the way it was.
Tiny, hilly roads. Crowded and sometimes dirt roads. Not lit. This was so far away from directly on to Baraboo that it literally HAD to be intentional.
Lewis (dad) said it was on the way to their favorite hunting spot.
This means to me he was there to check his stand or sneak a hunt (still don't buy that second one, but maybe)

The land is and was completely private property. To hunt off Tower Road, he needed permission. Would he have broken all those rules, or did the family friend Lewis ran to give permission in advance for them to hunt on his land? The huge question for me right now is WHY WAS HE THERE? leaving all the rest out of it.

 

[Quoththeraven]

The articles say “near durwards glen” not in it. Any idea of the nun’s house’s location?

From my understanding, the nun was caretaker at the retreat and that is where she and the Mauston woman encountered the man and the vehicle.

 

[Keiri]

From my understanding, the nun was caretaker at the retreat and that is where she and the Mauston woman encountered the man and the vehicle.

If she was the caretaker, this is a current photo inside DG. It's absolutely gorgeous. From what I can tell, that little house to the left is original. The little yellow house says its "the cottage" on the map. This could have been it, but I have no idea for sure. There's other little houses on the map. The grotto was built in 2009 with the remnants of the old chapel (not where anyone lived, if I read it right). So remove from consideration that one as one of the houses. Here is the link to more about this cottage: The Artist's Cottage — Durward's Glen Retreat Center

 

[Quoththeraven]

Yeah, totally not Gacy.
What struck me the most about this trip was how amazingly out of the way it was.
Tiny, hilly roads. Crowded and sometimes dirt roads. Not lit. This was so far away from directly on to Baraboo that it literally HAD to be intentional.
Lewis (dad) said it was on the way to their favorite hunting spot.
This means to me he was there to check his stand or sneak a hunt (still don't buy that second one, but maybe)

The land is and was completely private property. To hunt off Tower Road, he needed permission. Would he have broken all those rules, or did the family friend Lewis ran to give permission in advance for them to hunt on his land? The huge question for me right now is WHY WAS HE THERE? leaving all the rest out of it.

7:07 PM Friday, September 16, 1977 (CDT) Sunset in Baraboo, WI. I don't think he was hunting (totally out of character and it was getting dark) and he might have been checking his stand. Because these were his hunting/stomping grounds, I think he encountered someone he knew who was also familiar with the area.

 

[Keiri]

7:07 PM Friday, September 16, 1977 (CDT) Sunset in Baraboo, WI. I don't think he was hunting (totally out of character and it was getting dark) and he might have been checking his stand. Because these were his hunting/stomping grounds, I think he encountered someone he knew who was also familiar with the area.

EXACTLY. I'm 100% with you on both points. Also, the caretaker nun... what driveway is she referring to? The big one to durward's glen? One in front of the cottage or hermitage? By the way, the hermitage has no running water. That'd be awful to live in. The Hermitage — Durward's Glen Retreat Center

Husband just said deer hunting is when the deer move, which is at dusk and dawn, so the time would make sense for hunting. But I'm still for the stand because he was a goodie goodie deep down. I asked the sheriff if they ever found the stand or if brother Mike Christian knows where they usually put their stands.

 

[Sweetluv]

Thanks @Keiri for the pics!

 

[Keiri]

You are welcome. I forgot to add, it's a SUPER hilly area. There's ski slopes leading up to tower road (with manmade snow and skiiers right now). Reading the article cited above "May justice be served":

"One concern was that Robert had been injured, perhaps while checking out a tree stand or something else, Lewis said.
But they found no evidence of him being injured at the tree stand or other signs of him."

So they found the stand. It'd be nice to know where it was.

 

[Teamir]

I went up today. I have pictures. This is the view from Tower Road to the old tower location.

View attachment 567336

It is private property and you cannot go on it so you have to accept my zoom. This is the clearing. The thing in the back center is a load of mud/dirt with some snow. The entire clearing and road is about one foot higher than the forest around it.

View attachment 567338
This is the map of Durward's Glen
View attachment 567339

That's awesome that you went there to check it out!

 

[Teamir]

You are welcome. I forgot to add, it's a SUPER hilly area. There's ski slopes leading up to tower road (with manmade snow and skiiers right now). Reading the article cited above "May justice be served":

"One concern was that Robert had been injured, perhaps while checking out a tree stand or something else, Lewis said.
But they found no evidence of him being injured at the tree stand or other signs of him."

So they found the stand. It'd be nice to know where it was.

I think he went and checked the tree stand, and then because he had some time before dark, I think he drove to the spot where the car was found (to scout another location?), and then walked to the road, and then down the road toward public land. I think he slipped/fell on a steep hill and hit his head, then later got covered up by leaves.

 

[Soulmagent]

Where would one search for burglaries in the Baraboo area in the 1970's? I know sometimes online newspapers can be helpful but is there anywhere else to look?

I honestly would search out the local papers and all the police briefs ,first. Online papers can help ..but that free library ,got nothing on them.

 

[Keiri]

I honestly would search out the local papers and all the police briefs ,first. Online papers can help ..but that free library ,got nothing on them.

To my knowledge none of us are local. Newspapers.com has the baraboo papers though, so it’s ok. There were tons of thefts and burglaries that year and the years around it. Gas, skis, cars, wheels, batteries, you name it. It’s hard to narrow down as it’s not like all of them were caught, and none were in the exact vicinity. The sheriff might have records that would be easier to look up, and I’m guessing they have in the course of the investigation. Also, they knew the identity of the confidential informant which I’ve always supposed was one of the thieves.

 

[Soulmagent]

To my knowledge none of us are local. Newspapers.com has the baraboo papers though, so it’s ok. There were tons of thefts and burglaries that year and the years around it. Gas, skis, cars, wheels, batteries, you name it. It’s hard to narrow down as it’s not like all of them were caught, and none were in the exact vicinity. The sheriff might have records that would be easier to look up, and I’m guessing they have in the course of the investigation. Also, they knew the identity of the confidential informant which I’ve always supposed was one of the thieves.o what's the thief's names?

They live there and I am supposing court records are out there for those guys , And for real , I do expect a short jaunt though records to help this kids case.