WI WI - Robert Christian, 18, Madison, 16 Sept 1977

[Keiri]

They live there and I am supposing court records are out there for those guys , And for real , I do expect a short jaunt though records to help this kids case.

Most Wisconsin court records around this time were sent to the archives, and the archives chose which to keep and which to destroy. There's not any backups of any of it. It's absolutely annoying to me when I want to search for older cases for clues and I can't even look up if there was one. Newspapers are a good source here. But even with newspapers, I don't think you are going to get answers with a short jaunt, it's been over 40 years. I do look at the newspapers and there are caught burglaries, but nothing specifically in this area. For example, the durward's glen nun's house being ransacked never made the papers. I am supposing we only know about it because this missing person's case was never closed and it had info about it.
I did make the suggestion of looking into burglaries around then though to the sheriffs, but they got a tip about the tires and hubcaps - so I figure they already know who took them.

 

[Keiri]

One more picture. Walking into durward's glen, which is a free, open natural retreat, couple of things I noticed. It's down the road about 5-10 at most mins from the clearing. 1 - it's absolutely freaking gorgeous. 2 - LOTS of water. This comes from a spring, 6-8 miles above durward's glen and ends in the wisconsin river. In flooding, it can get as high as ten feet, washing away everything in its path. Worrying me that any remains may have just been washed away from this whole place.

 

[Quoththeraven]

One more picture. Walking into durward's glen, which is a free, open natural retreat, couple of things I noticed. It's down the road about 5-10 at most mins from the clearing. 1 - it's absolutely freaking gorgeous. 2 - LOTS of water. This comes from a spring, 6-8 miles above durward's glen and ends in the wisconsin river. In flooding, it can get as high as ten feet, washing away everything in its path. Worrying me that any remains may have just been washed away from this whole place. View attachment 567534

I sometimes wonder if Robert's body was buried somewhere at the retreat? It might be there based on the fact that Robert's car was at that location and was possibly involved in the burglary at the retreat. Since the driver had no valid explanation as to why he was there is what makes him a suspect to me.​

This scenario is more plausible than the one that Gacy got off a plane in Chicago that night and immediately drove up to Baraboo, kidnapped Robert, killed him and stripped his car.​

Maybe the driver of that car (whether the car was Robert's or someone else's similar-looking car using Robert's front license plate) had dumped the body there and decided to ransack the retreat building knowing that no one was there (until the nun and lady from Mauston showed up and he had to come up with a quick excuse as to why he was at the scene of a burglary. "My name's Bob and I was supposed to meet my friend. Maybe I'm in the wrong location?") Of course he was going to say his name was Bob since he was driving a vehicle with Bob's license plate on it as the lady from Mauston was questioning him and probably writing down his license plate. Bob was very familiar with the area and hunted there. I doubt he was lost and didn't know where he was or where his friend lived. That excuse is bogus.​

I doubt LE searched that far away from where his vehicle was found at the relay tower since the retreat was across the county line in Columbia County. Send in the cadavar dogs and a search team to the scene of the crime at the retreat which is the last known location of what may have been Bob's car or a similar-looking car.​

 

[Keiri]

I started to think the retreat for dumping his body as well, as soon as I saw the water. Lots of secluded spots in it.

But check this out. I didn’t know the tower had a living space. And the reaction to the sheriff?

Living quarters?

Clipping found in Baraboo News Republic published in Baraboo, Wisconsin on 12/27/1973. Living quarters?

www.newspapers.com

 

[Quoththeraven]

I started to think the retreat for dumping his body as well, as soon as I saw the water. Lots of secluded spots in it.

But check this out. I didn’t know the tower had a living space. And the reaction to the sheriff?

Living quarters?

Clipping found in Baraboo News Republic published in Baraboo, Wisconsin on 12/27/1973. Living quarters?

www.newspapers.com

A State Patrol relay tower, at that. I wonder if the tower living space was occupied in 1977? Albrecht Rd (Tower Rd) known locally as Lover's Lane? Robert's disappearance sounds more and more like a crime committed by a young local person with an intimate knowledge of the area, a young person who has been known to strip cars in the past and knew his way around the area. This was a crime committed by a local person, IMO. Maybe even someone who knew Robert.

The next morning, Saturday, September 17th, Lewis and Mike were driving near the location of the planned hunting expedition when they saw Robert’s Hornet parked in a lane just off a road known locally as “Lovers Lane” near the State Patrol relay antenna on Tower Road.

Robert Christian

Missing Since September 16, 1977 Robert Christian was an 18 year old UW-Madison freshman in September, 1977, with hopes to eventually work in computer programming. He had spent the summer working for the city parks department to save up some money for school and he appeared excited about his...

www.wimissing.org

Sauk County Sheriff's Office photo on FB​

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[Keiri]

A State Patrol relay tower, at that. I wonder if the tower living space was occupied in 1977? Albrecht Rd (Tower Rd) known locally as Lover's Lane? Robert's disappearance sounds more and more like a crime committed by a young local person with an intimate knowledge of the area, a young person who has been known to strip cars in the past and knew his way around the area. This was a crime committed by a local person, IMO. Maybe even someone who knew Robert.

Robert Christian

Missing Since September 16, 1977 Robert Christian was an 18 year old UW-Madison freshman in September, 1977, with hopes to eventually work in computer programming. He had spent the summer working for the city parks department to save up some money for school and he appeared excited about his...

www.wimissing.org

View attachment 567655

Sauk County Sheriff's Office photo on FB​

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Exactly what I told the sheriff, honestly. Local baddies. I honestly think local bads or an accident. No serial killer.

This site was also robbed on January 2, 1976, whoever it was broke into that little building and stole all the stuff for cable tv that had recently gone up.

In 1975, locals youths were stealing and joyriding cars up and down tower road, the sheriffs figured it out when they found two abandoned cars that were crashed into ditches right near the tower.

And in 1970? The same site was used to transfer materials to make the 1970 uw Madison bomb. Bombing

Basically what I’m saying is, it was a dangerous place. A dangerous place to be alone, with people who had stealing or other bad things on the mind. He very well could have stumbled upon a robbery.

 

[Keiri]

I know I am beating this thing to death but I finally found the car PART thefts from a few months before Robert went missing. It was in the county but not in the same town. They specifically targeted ABANDONED CARS.

stealing parts from abandoned cars

Clipping found in Baraboo News Republic published in Baraboo, Wisconsin on 1/17/1977. stealing parts from abandoned cars

www.newspapers.com

 

[BooImAGhost]

Do you think the Sherriff's department might consider searching the area of Durward's Glen just in case Robert had an accident or met fowl play in the woods? I know it's a big area but I'm certain there are plenty of locals that know the area well enough to look through it. The area in which the tree stand was would be of particular interest to me - how far it was from the road, what the terrain was like, how close it was to the retreat. Maybe someone saw Robert walking through the woods to his stand and thought they were caught stealing from the retreat?

I am a local myself and can't believe I haven't heard more gossip around the subject to be honest, there has to be someone who has important information - maybe they don't even realize it.

 

[Keiri]

Do you think the Sherriff's department might consider searching the area of Durward's Glen just in case Robert had an accident or met fowl play in the woods? I know it's a big area but I'm certain there are plenty of locals that know the area well enough to look through it. The area in which the tree stand was would be of particular interest to me - how far it was from the road, what the terrain was like, how close it was to the retreat. Maybe someone saw Robert walking through the woods to his stand and thought they were caught stealing from the retreat?

I am a local myself and can't believe I haven't heard more gossip around the subject to be honest, there has to be someone who has important information - maybe they don't even realize it.

They did searchthe Glen and the area of the tower, so did the family, and lots of locals, to no avail. Remember it's been 48 years, and over those years his many, many friends looked for him. I have posted current photos, newspaper articles, and Quoth has posted maps, so if you go through this thread you can see them. Sheriffs also recently posted pictures (that are in this thread) of the car by the original tower. Keep in mind too the tower location is not hte current location and is on private property. Durward's glen is a retreat that's open with paths if you feel like visiting. Psst It's "foul play" - "fowl play" would be a bunch of chickens fighting with foam swords
This is the sign in front of the old tower location. I went up there recently.

 

[Quoththeraven]

They did searchthe Glen and the area of the tower, so did the family, and lots of locals, to no avail. Remember it's been 48 years, and over those years his many, many friends looked for him. I have posted current photos, newspaper articles, and Quoth has posted maps, so if you go through this thread you can see them. Sheriffs also recently posted pictures (that are in this thread) of the car by the original tower. Keep in mind too the tower location is not hte current location and is on private property. Durward's glen is a retreat that's open with paths if you feel like visiting. Psst It's "foul play" - "fowl play" would be a bunch of chickens fighting with foam swords
This is the sign in front of the old tower location. I went up there recently.

They searched the area of the retreat, which is in the next county, east of the tower? I also wonder how close their tree stand was to the tower.

 

[Keiri]

They searched the area of the retreat, which is in the next county, east of the tower? I also wonder how close their tree stand was to the tower.

I did ask the Sheriff about where the tree stand was located, but I didn't get any answer. It's possible they didn't even record where it was back in 77. I should add - Durward's retreat is all walking. It's no hunting and while there I saw people walking in the woods - people go there I guess to commune with nature. I assume after 48 years of people walking all over there, most if not all has been covered. But that's an assumption.

 

[Quoththeraven]

Do you think the Sherriff's department might consider searching the area of Durward's Glen just in case Robert had an accident or met fowl play in the woods? I know it's a big area but I'm certain there are plenty of locals that know the area well enough to look through it. The area in which the tree stand was would be of particular interest to me - how far it was from the road, what the terrain was like, how close it was to the retreat. Maybe someone saw Robert walking through the woods to his stand and thought they were caught stealing from the retreat?

I am a local myself and can't believe I haven't heard more gossip around the subject to be honest, there has to be someone who has important information - maybe they don't even realize it.

I was of the understanding that the deer stand was in the immediate vicinity of the tower. The retreat is 1.7 miles east of the tower. I'd think that would be too far to walk from the tower. We've never been told the exact location of the tree stand, whether it's to the left or right of the tower.

Since you're a local, would it be possible for you to ask around where it was located? At least to find out how far it was from the relay tower? Thanks for your interest and input.

I think Robert's father and Robert's brother Mike were on the way to the tree stand when they spotted Robert's car. An article I read awhile back said Robert's father came up one route from Madison to the location of the tree stand when they spotted the car. Robert's uncle took the other route (I-90) to look for Robert's car. If I remember correctly, Robert's father took Highway 12. So, if Robert's father came in from the east (on Tower Road) when they spotted the car on the way to the deer stand, that would put the tree stand to the west of the tower.

Being as dependable and punctual as Robert's family and LE have led us to believe, IMO, Robert should have gone right to his friend's house in West Baraboo. He shouldn't even have been at the tower, the retreat or the tree stand. The only way he would have been there willingly was if he had punctually made it to his friend's house as planned and they both went to check out the tree stand. It was then that something happened.

It was Robert's friend who had his mother call Robert's mother to report Robert never showed up, it wasn't the friend who called. I don't care whether the friend was cleared. We've also never heard once from the friend in the last 47 years since 1977 express his concern or give his version of events either publicly or in the newspapers. It would be helpful to hear his insight into the case of his missing friend. Was he interviewed and cleared by the same deputy who ran over any potential evidence near Robert's car after Robert's father called the SCSD to report they had found Robert's car? Robert's father was pretty perturbed by that according to a newspaper account previously aired on this forum. Then, we finally learn 47 years later a whole new version of events regarding the retreat. What else don't we know or won't ever know almost a half century later after the disappearance?

The other scenario is that he met some other local(s) he was acquainted with while on the way to his friend's house and was forced to go to an area that only locals would know about and it was then that something happened. His car ends up getting stripped and pilfered of his belongings and his mother's medical supplies and Robert disappears. I'm just speculating.

 

[Keiri]

It would be in his responsible character to check the stand while heading to Randy’s to make sure it’s ready for the next day. That’s a real thing that good hunters do traditionally (not the right word but I can’t think of it). He probably thought it’d be a quick stop, hop back in the car and still make it at a reasonable time.

As for Randy, 100% agree. Since this is an open active case I don’t think sheriff would give us copies, even though Sauk county has an open records policy. But maybe if we limit it to two or three things - anywhere indicating where the stand was, Randy’s interviews, and regarding the tip about the hubcaps, we might get some things released.

For what it’s worth the sheriffs in this case seem to be competent. I feel less worried about their handling of the case than I do other cases.

 

[Keiri]

Removing all text but the map, I’m confused about something. The red dot is bob’s house

 

[chaddylex]

The Deck Podcast just released an episode about Bob's disappearance.

The Deck Podcast Home - The Deck

thedeckpodcast.com

In the Fall of 1977, Bob was just weeks into his freshman year at UW-Madison. He was a math whiz with a knack for computers and a big heart. At 18-years-old, there was no telling how far he’d go.

But no one ever expected to be asking the question… Where did he go? Yet here we are almost half a century later, with that burning question and just a string of bizarre clues that leads many to believe an infamous serial killer could be to blame for his disappearance.

 

[Sweetluv]

Wonder what the "bizarre clues" are that possibly puts an infamous serial killer as a suspect?

 

[chaddylex]

Wonder what the "bizarre clues" are that possibly puts an infamous serial killer as a suspect?

I am listening now to the episode. John Wayne Gacy was to be working in the area in July 1977 - possibly remodeling a Drug store, and also the Clown headquarters is in that area - John Wayne Gacy worked as a clown.... kind of crazy.

 

[Sweetluv]

Wonder if the drug store Gacy was remodeling was the same one Robert bought cigars at? The whole clown thing is weird...

 

[Keiri]

There is almost no way Gacy could have done it given the timing and the timing of his other victims. When I contacted law enforcement with that info, they admitted their idea was farfetched (but not impossible, was their point). But I don't agree. It's not a Gacy type crime in so many ways, not the least of which is Gacy is not known to have killed anyone from outside Illinois. He had a system, and that included bringing the men back to his apartment and using specific implements on them and killing and disposing of them there. He wasn't going to go to Wisconsin in the middle of nowhere to pick up a kid who parked in a spot where bad often went down. There are many of us who have dug deep into this case, and the Gacy angle is coming from law enforcement who is very interested in serial killers. I have tracked down multiple articles about stuff going down in that clearing, and locals doing Bad Things. I'm actually kind of resentful that Gacy was brought up at all, because it sensationalizes something that could possibly be solvable, if things were looked into properly. If you are looking at the serial killers, you aren't looking at the thieves, drug dealers, and neighbors. cc @Teamir

Here's the info I'm talking about.

here's the 1976 robbery of the tower

https://www.newspapers.com/article/baraboo-news-republic-cablevision/167216536/


1975 stolen cars abandoned near tower

https://www.newspapers.com/article/baraboo-news-republic-stolen-cars/167216776/


1973 robbery of the tower

https://www.newspapers.com/article/baraboo-news-republic-living-quarters/167074363/


1977 – months before Christian disappeared, men arrested for taking parts from abandoned cars in sauk county

https://www.newspapers.com/article/baraboo-news-republic-stealing-parts-fro/167218293/


The amount of theft in Sauk County, especially around the ski slopes, seems almost legendary back in the 70s.

Heck, they even stole calves from a farm!

Then you have this little tie to history for the spot:

https://www.newspapers.com/article/baraboo-news-republic-bombing/167085512/

If Bob went to check his hunting stand and parked there to walk to it, he may have interrupted theft or a drug deal or worse. I wanted to search burglaries around there or stolen car parts but much of it wasn’t in the newspaper. Even the nun’s house being ransacked wasn’t in the news!

I just don’t want the momentum to die. It’s almost 50 years. So sorry for this guy.

 

[chaddylex]

There is almost no way Gacy could have done it given the timing and the timing of his other victims. When I contacted law enforcement with that info, they admitted their idea was farfetched. It's not a Gacy type crime in so many ways, not the least of which is Gacy is not known to have killed anyone from outside Illinois. He had a system, and that included bringing the men back to his apartment and using specific implements on them and killing and disposing of them there. He wasn't going to go to Wisconsin in the middle of nowhere to pick up a kid who parked in a spot where bad often went down. There are many of us who have dug deep into this case, and the Gacy angle is coming from law enforcement who is very interested in serial killers. I have tracked down multiple articles about stuff going down in that clearing, and locals doing Bad Things. I'm actually kind of resentful that Gacy was brought up at all, because it sensationalizes something that could possibly be solvable, if things were looked into properly. If you are looking at the serial killers, you aren't looking at the thieves, drug dealers, and neighbors. cc @Teamir

Hey - sorry I do see you have spent a lot of time on this case. I am just posting that an episode was released about his disappearance.

I get your frustrations - my case I have spent a lot of time on is the disappearance of Cherrie Mahan. When i read or hear of info that I don't believe is true, it upsets me also.