WV - Teacher swipes mic from autistic boy set to perform in Thanksgiving play

[Woodland]

Not at all off topic. I am explaining how the 'planned ignoring' strategy works with special education students. And how it can make it look like the adult is being a bully, when in fact, they are doing a strategic action in response.

Maybe you could highlight where using this strategy in public is appropriate? Would be able to get the point if I see that.

 

[kaen]

Is this recommended for children with learning disorders?

It is not about disorder but behavior. Obviously some students with disabilities have behaviors that are not positive academically or socially/emotionally. Behavior plans are also put into place for typical kids who are having a rough time adjusting or functioning.

When you are creating a plan for a child to function better in the classroom, you collect behavior data. You look at the troubling behavior, what came before and after. It helps you to figure out what the function of the behavior is. So, for children who do things to get attention in negative ways-- like tantruming or using foul language--- you begin to figure out how you want to address the behavior. The best is to only be in a situation where you reward good behavior rather than being in the position to have to give a "punishment" or negative for bad behavior. Planned ignoring is a strategy to use where you don't respond to the negative attention seeking behavior but you give positive feedback for all other or specific other behaviors you want to encourage. If you have a planned ignoring strategy for a kid who calls out in class, planned ignoring would be to not answer or respond to the calling out. The child would know that you are going to ignore the behavior and would also have examples from you about the kind of behavior that you will be encouraging. One major factor in planned ignoring is that when a child presents the behaviors you want them to do--raising hand---- you immediately call on them to reinforce the positive choice.

Students don't need a dx for a behavior strategy to be put into place. That said, if a child with a disability has an FBA and BIP that calls for certain strategies, you need to make sure that they are capable of doing the desired action.

Katydid23 talked about a child who ate other people's food (a very common behavior among students with some disabilities). Their strategy would be to remove food that was not the child's food. Ideally, you have someone acknowledging the behavior and taking the excess food away. If the behavior is wanting more food and attention seeking, a strategy might be just to remove the excess food with no attention given (no conversation about it not being appropriate to take someone else's food) with positive feedback or reinforcer such as an extra half of a muffin at the end of lunch if the child does not take food from someone's plate for all of lunch----- they are reinforced/rewarded for not taking food and planned ignored if they take food with adult just removing without talking about it.

Hoepefully, that makes sense.

 

[flourish]

I believe if she thought him to be unpredictable taking the microphone was probably the better of limited choices. That said, it is not just one action that she could have done. She wasn't limited to just taking the microphone. She could have taken the microphone AND helped the child/acknowledged the child/guided the child to his parents/stayed by his side and silently attended him/ acknowledged the child and gently speaking to him. She chose to walk away and ignore him.

I have children with IEPs that call for planned ignoring but those plans are made with children and parents (as young as 5) and have specific instances where they can and cannot be used. Doesn't seem like mom and dad felt this was a part of a FBA/BIP strategy. If it is not, the teacher should have some explaining to do. Did she do what was in his IEP?

Exactly, and planned ignoring means ignoring the targeted behavior, not the child. She ignored the child. If there were indeed suspicions or concerns about him, why didn't a teacher or para go up there when he allegedly re-entered the stage? They let him stand there with no intervention for at least 2 children speaking, he moved up in line towards the microphone, he clearly wanted to speak. If it wasn't his turn, then you pull a strategy out of your teacher tool kit. You take the microphone if you must, but you say something, "Oh, Benjamin, I know you're so excited about using the microphone, but that's the end of our show, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!" "Benjamin, thank you, your part is done. Happy Thanksgiving everyone!" There was a better option. I don't think this alone appears to be something to be fired over, but definitely needs to be addressed between the teacher and her supervisors. I was always nervous when my class did performances for their parents, but at the end of the day, it's a freaking little kid performance in a school. It's not Broadway. Letting the child with special needs be himself would not have created a snowball effect of all the children having to speak again--he was the only one up there. I think the teacher was more disruptive to the event than the child would have been had he spoke, even if he did say mothertrucker. People would have giggled and moved on. People generally expect the adults to be better behaved than the children.

 

[JeannaT]

So this has been an interesting discussion on how best to manage children with behavioral disabilities, but really, I think it's as simple as the teacher was done with this bad performance and so were all the adults in the room. I don't think anyone planned to ignore this child, it was just time for this Thanksgiving play to be put to rest. IMHO.

 

[flourish]

You were taught to ignore students with disabilities? That's insensitive, not helping them, and is probably doesn't conform with Americans With Disabilities Act.

What this teacher did was rude and also insensitive. Oh, she was worried what he might say into the mic but she was fine with letting him stand there, confused and in tears. BS.

Actually, WS bestie, planned ignoring of a behavior is a common behavioralist technique. However, I cannot stress enough that one must ignore the behavior, but not ignore the actual person. And it must be part of a specific written behavior intervention plan which the interdisciplinary team all signs off on. Generally there is a replacement behavior involved, etc.

Now, in practice, direct care workers often struggle with the execution of the plans, which is where good training and modeling come in. Blah blah blah it's Friday and I'm not at work anymore so I'm going to stop and not go off on a tangent.

 

[Woodland]

Still unable to fathom defending a bully.

 

[kaen]

So this has been an interesting discussion on how best to manage children with behavioral disabilities, but really, I think it's as simple as the teacher was done with this bad performance and so were all the adults in the room. I don't think anyone planned to ignore this child, it was just time for this Thanksgiving play to be put to rest. IMHO.

On so many levels, I agree. But ( I hate when I have a "but" in my head), I am concerned that this is the way that this child may be handled on an ongoing basis. His mother intimated it on the video. I wonder if there are positive strategies put in place for him or if he is often treated in ways that don't help him to gain social and coping skills. It is just a wonder. I have seen too many videos of how poorly teachers treat kids with invisible disabilities like ASD. As the superintendent said, teachers need to think about how the act in public spaces. I frame it this way--if she is willing to act this way in public what does it look like when she is alone or with a para in the classroom.

 

[Woodland]

Imo, the superintendent is letting everyone down - students, parents and good teachers - by pretending nothing happened.

He is leaving the door open for this teacher to act like this again and for another teacher with the same personality to also behave in this manner.

He makes a loser out of everyone, not just himself. Jmo.

 

[kaen]

Imo, the superintendent is letting everyone down - students, parents and good teachers - by pretending nothing happened.

He is leaving the door open for this teacher to act like this again and for another teacher with the same personality to also behave in this manner.

He makes a loser out of everyone, not just himself. Jmo.

Yes, he is from my perspective as well. I will add that sometimes the public administrator persona does not reflect the kind of conversation going on behind closed doors. The boy and his dad had a meeting. The superintendent stumbled over how to characterize that. He originally only spoke with the principal but was going to meet with the teacher. My guess is that he was trying to sweep it under the rug and has now realized that a more comprehensive action plan is needed. I see professional development, conversations about better planning for family events, and a principal plan for checking in and assessing classroom teaching coming down the pike for this district. My guess is that the district legal team will also be taking a look at any plan they come up with to make sure that all the factors are assessed.

 

[human]

The teacher could have told the boy what to say as flourish said. Good idea.

Life is hard enough, Lighten up, Have fun. Laugh

 

[JeannaT]

On so many levels, I agree. But ( I hate when I have a "but" in my head), I am concerned that this is the way that this child may be handled on an ongoing basis. His mother intimated it on the video. I wonder if there are positive strategies put in place for him or if he is often treated in ways that don't help him to gain social and coping skills. It is just a wonder. I have seen too many videos of how poorly teachers treat kids with invisible disabilities like ASD. As the superintendent said, teachers need to think about how the act in public spaces. I frame it this way--if she is willing to act this way in public what does it look like when she is alone or with a para in the classroom.

I may be the only one who has suffered through this whole awful/cute performance. It was awful, and it was time to end it. The kids were bouncing around, some were wandering about, some were standing there putting their fingers in their mouths, the noise of the parents was growing louder. This child had been up to the microphone twice, and now a third time, and it appeared to me he was only scheduled to approach the microphone once as all the other children were. Although at the end of the performance he was approaching for a 3rd time, and had not said anything anyone could understand the first two times.

I do understand what you're saying, kaen, but sometimes in a public school situation enough is enough. The performance was long past due to end, and in my opinion, this child was due some social feedback that you've participated enough.

 

[Goodship_Lollipeep]

Although the comments were difficult to take and thank goodness already edited before I read them, in fairness to JP, it might be interesting to know, there are actual parents of autistic children who still wonder about the "refrigerator parent" explanation.

I think the disability in its basic form is quite severe. If you add bullying, abuse, neglect, to the picture, it is a lot more severe for some kids.

Normal kids typically express their experience of such things differently. They have a strong Self-Concept and are able to tell you what's wrong.

Some ASD children for whatever reason have trouble with the concept of a separate self. They are more likely to repeat behaviors of which they have been the victim or recipient.

You can see why the child ends up bearing an enormously disproportionate amount of blame and pressure for his or her condition, behavior, and coping mechanisms.

Now, toss in sensory differences, brain differences, allergies and other sensitivities that go along with this.

It is a clear case of square peg being brutally forced into a round hole in way too many of our schools.

I have a caseworker assigned to the situation with my own child, and before he started avoiding me recently, he said "that school ought to have been reported to the state ombudsman", regarding actions taken to "control" my severely disabled child's behavior at a school that likely overspent on construction and literally left special ed hanging.

owie.

P.s. since all that my child's been moved to a more capable school district and home.

 

[JeannaT]

And I kind of want to add this. There's a reason why the "greatest generation" was the greatest. It's because when you had your turn, you sat down. This child had two turns - one more than other children - and he was back for a third. And instead of backing the teacher, mom posted this on facebook and everyone is so sad that this child didn't have a 3rd crack at the microphone where everyone else only got one.

In my opinion, this wasn't "bullying" after looking through the whole 12 minute video. This was a teacher ending the performance before this child took a 3rd chance at the microphone when he was entitled to one.

Sometimes, negative feedback is a good thing.

 

[Goodship_Lollipeep]

Disabled =/= spoiled
Disabled = he literally might not understand ie perceive the situation as others do



P.s. *tosses a cream pie*

 

[kaen]

I agree about negative feedback being a good thing if you can help a child learn from it. This was not the place to make a point. This was a place to be a leader and role model. While I don't think taking the microphone was a good thing, I might have made that choice myself if I had to sit through the performance. For me the issue is how do you make it the teaching moment. If we want him to learn that enough is enough, how does taking the microphone and not saying anything to him teach him anything? Maybe if she brought him to his parents afterwards and said I am sorry to do that but you had two turns already and I wanted ______ to have his turn to end the program. Or, if she had quietly spoken to him and said that she took the microphone because he was taking too many turns and it was time to be done.

I watched the whole thing,. It was painful and filled with uncomfortable kids and a horribly boring presentation to have to deliver. I am with you on the idea of talking to kids about their behavior.

I work with high schoolers with disabilities (many have ASD) and am ALWAYS talking to them about taking showers, appropriate language, and reaching high. I am not ever in favor of lowering the bar. My kids will enter college and the work world and no one will care that they have ASD--- they just need to perform at work. They have stimming behaviors that we talk about and put plans in place for as well as language to help those who become important to them know why they do what they do and what it means. I want them to date, marry, have kids and a productive life. I agree------ feedback is key but at the right place in the right time and with honor and respect.

This kids was not respected---bottomline. NO one should just leave a kid out there to be more disruptive, have no other good choice but to act out more and embarrass himself more. His mom getting a million likes and gathering the ire of her community won't help either.

 

[Ladylub]

Unpopular opinion but oh well . The only thing that could have been done different was she could have address him. Not to coddle him but to tell him you have no line go stand in your spot turn back around and do what she needed to do.


No way was this anyway bullying. The only bullies I see are those who have their pitchforks out asking for the lady's job .

 

[Woodland]

I may be the only one who has suffered through this whole awful/cute performance. It was awful, and it was time to end it. The kids were bouncing around, some were wandering about, some were standing there putting their fingers in their mouths, the noise of the parents was growing louder. This child had been up to the microphone twice, and now a third time, and it appeared to me he was only scheduled to approach the microphone once as all the other children were. Although at the end of the performance he was approaching for a 3rd time, and had not said anything anyone could understand the first two times.

I do understand what you're saying, kaen, but sometimes in a public school situation enough is enough. The performance was long past due to end, and in my opinion, this child was due some social feedback that you've participated enough.

That was social feedback? No wonder bullying is so prevalent imo.

 

[Woodland]

Unpopular opinion but oh well . The only thing that could have been done different was she could have address him. Not to coddle him but to tell him you have no line go stand in your spot turn back around and do what she needed to do.


No way was this anyway bullying. The only bullies I see are those who have their pitchforks out asking for the lady's job .

UBM - I do agree that she could have made much better choices in her actions - the video would not have been posted and we wouldn't be here discussing her if she had.

Excusing her behavior is a bad choice imo.

 

[Ladylub]

UBM - I do agree that she could have made much better choices in her actions - the video would not have been posted and we wouldn't be here discussing her if she had.

Excusing her behavior is a bad choice imo.

Could have sure but the way it was handled was also okay. This might have been the most effective way of handling him. They are with him 5 days a week so they know a bit more than what any of us, who are only watching a tiny clip of their interaction.

 

[kaen]

Could have sure but the way it was handled was also okay. This might have been the most effective way of handling him. They are with him 5 days a week so they know a bit more than what any of us, who are only watching a tiny clip of their interaction.

I work with children with disabilities. It is not the most effective way of handling a child with disabilities, in particular ASD. It is not appropriate in an unfamiliar setting to not give guidance. Maybe if you want a child to practice skills in a classroom you make a plan to not explain and give him the opportunity to think about why you do x or y. But on a stage in front of his peers, in an unfamiliar setting, you scaffold him. The way it was handled wasn't okay. There were parents laughing for a whole host of reasons, the teacher grabbed the microphone and other kids were responding. Will this make him more or less of an outcast? Will this encourage bullying? I don't know. But, when we set up educational environments we have a duty to be thinking 2 steps ahead and if we blow it, we say we are sorry for not doing it well. Kids need to see their role models accept and take responsibility because we should expect that of them---modeling at its finest.