GUILTY Yoselyn Ortega charged with 2 counts ea-1st and 2nd Degree Murder of Krim Children

[JerseyGirl]

Are we going to have a trial thread for this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I think we'll just continue here regarding updates during the trial.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

I’ve been following this trial via DM & NY Post. My heart goes out to Marina. Her pain to this day is palpable.

 

[turaj]

today sounded really rough...Marina on the stand.

 

[MsFacetious]

The mother of two tots allegedly slaughtered by their nanny six years ago lost her cool in court Friday, screaming “You’re evil!” at her former caregiver as she bolted from the courtroom.

-------------------------------

“You’re evil and you love this! You like this!” Krim screamed as she was escorted out of the courtroom by court officers after she finished testifying in the case.

----------------------------------

Earlier Friday, Krim also blasted Ortega’s lawyer, who was questioning her on cross-examination.

“You’re fishing and she’s a liar! They’re liars!” the mom shouted in front of jurors. Judge Gregory Carro told them to disregard her outburst.

--------------------------------

“She’s a narcissist — it’s all about money! It’s all about money!” Krim suddenly yelled. “My hands are numb. Can I go? Oh my God.”

https://nypost.com/2018/03/02/mom-rips-into-killer-nanny-before-bolting-out-of-courtroom/

 

[HMSHood]

'A Scream You Can't Imagine.' Mom Describes Horror of Finding Kids Slaughtered by Nanny
http://time.com/5181208/yoselyn-ortega-trial-marina-krim/

But prosecutors conceded there isn’t a clear motive.

Groves said it’s possible Ortega’s resentment and jealousy of Marina Krim, coupled with an inability to provide for her own son, sent her into a calculated rage.

“You may believe you have not heard a satisfactory answer, because there just isn’t a satisfactory answer,” Groves said. “But not knowing why the defendant slaughtered Lucia and Leo Krim does not mean that she is not responsible for those actions or for those murders. It merely means there is no good answer.”

Yoselyn Ortega is an injustice collector. Every small slighting built up over time since childhood. She has a college degree in accounting, but never worked in accounting and is a nanny and works other jobs.

Ortega had pathological envy, which is a characteristics of an injustice collector, a dangerous injustice collector. When sees the Krims, who are successful, it intensifies her envy greatly. She has an extreme entitlement mentality.

She is not angry just at the Krims, she is angry at the whole world. She sees the world as cruel and unfair. A common characteristics of injustice collectors as they are perpetual victims.

Yoselyn Ortega is similar to Jodi Arias, Betty Broderick, Lori Drew, Gertrude Baniszewski, Nikolas Cruz, Stephen Paddock, Devin Kelley, Omar Mateen, Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho, Eric Harris, Elliot Rodger, Anders Breivik, Vester Flanagan, Charles Whitman, Andrew Kehoe, 9/11 Terrorists, and Osama bin Laden. In many ways, she is them because she thinks like them.

On Wound Collectors
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201509/wound-collectors

Murderous Envy
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/keeping-kids-safe/200905/murderous-envy

Yoselyn Ortega is consumed by pathological envy. Envy is a common characteristic of injustice collectors. Her extreme envy destroyed the Krims. Other extreme envy have destroyed many lives and whole nations.

Alleged school shooter was abusive to ex-girlfriend: classmate
https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/alleged-school-shooter-was-abusive-to-ex-girlfriend-classmate/

Alleged school shooter Nikolas Cruz threatened to kill his ex girlfriend — and was expelled after fighting with her new boyfriend, classmates revealed Thursday.

“The reason he got expelled was because he was fighting with his ex-girlfriend’s new boyfriend,” Connor Dietrich, 17, a junior at Florida’s Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, told The Post.

“He stalked her and threatened her. He was like, ‘I’m going to kill you,’ and he would say awful things to her and harass her to the point I would walk her to the bus just to make sure she was OK. We all made sure she was never alone.”

The Dangerous Injustice Collector: Behaviors of Someone Who Never Forgets, Never Forgives, Never Lets Go, and Strikes Back!
http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/pdf/10.1089/vio.2014.1509

Identifying The Next Mass Murderer—Before It’s Too Late
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ntifying-the-next-mass-murderer-it-s-too-late

Revisiting Adam Lanza: The Official Sandy Hook Report
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...ing-adam-lanza-the-official-sandy-hook-report

Lanza is consumed by pathological envy. It is likely his extreme envy drove him to sever contact with his father and brother.

Elliot Rodger-My Twisted World
http://abclocal.go.com/three/kabc/kabc/My-Twisted-World.pdf

Envy is a major theme in Rodger's manifesto. Pathological envy is what makes Elliot Rodger, Elliot Rodger.

Seung Hui Cho’s Manifesto
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/cho_manifesto_1.1.pdf

Like Rodger and Lanza, envy consumes Cho. Ortega shares similar characteristics with Rodger, Lanza, Cho, and Cruz. They are pathologically envious.

Websleuth Radio Interview Tina Meier
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

Tina Meier's description of Lori Drew starts at the 20:40 mark, which is constant complainer and unhappy. Yoselyn Ortega is a bitter person who complains non-stop. Both are consumed by envy as they are very resentful and unhappy people. They are perpetual victims and live a life of resentment and grudges. They are avoided by people for their extremely negative personality. Meier's description of Lori Drew applies with Yoselyn Ortega like it does with Nikolas Cruz, Stephen Paddock, Devin Kelley, Omar Mateen, Elliot Rodger, Adam Lanza, Seung-Hui Cho, and Osama bin Laden.

People like to think injustice collectors are only mass murderers and terrorists. Yoselyn Ortega is proof that injustice collectors are not just for mass killers and terrorists. Other case in points, Gertrude Baniszewski, Michelle Carter, Dora Cisneros, Lori Drew, Jodi Arias, Betty Broderick, and Casey Anthony.

 

[weedemout]

Does anyone know where to find trial transcripts for this case?

 

[stmarysmead]

Ortega may be a “grievance collector” but she and Marina Krim seem an especially toxic combination of personalities. Back in the early days of this case, we discussed how Marina would refer to Ortega’s son as her “4th child.” This is the normal hyperbole of our times, but I wonder if Ortega actually believed that this had a deeper emotional and financial meaning than was ever intended?

After so many years apart, why did she suddenly decide to bring her son to live with her? She was only making $500 a week and trying to provide an apartment, private schooling, etc in one of the most expensive cities in the world ! Did she have unreasonable expectations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/...she-found-her-children-slain-in-bathroom.html

When she went to Marina with her problems, she was offered an hour of cleaning a day to bring her salary to $600 a week. Not what she expected, if she believed that she and her son were like “family”...as in her culture.

Marina’s story about the miscarriage struck me as odd as well. She seemed to expect her babysitter to react with great sorrow or pity. But she knew the woman was being evicted from her apartment and beset with her own issues. Sad to say, but I doubt any of Marina’s problems would seem to Ortega as meaningful as her own insolvable mess.

Clearly, Ortega hates Marina Krim. I don’t know why there is any question of motive. Sadly, Ortega is now in a place where she gets three meals a day, a warm bed and has no responsibilities...and may even think her life is better.

She should get life in prison. I pray for continued healing for the Krim family.

 

[YESorNO]

YOSELYN ORTEGA TRIAL - Opening Statements

[video=youtube;QQwlFJpA050]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQwlFJpA050[/video]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[HMSHood]

Ortega may be a “grievance collector” but she and Marina Krim seem an especially toxic combination of personalities. Back in the early days of this case, we discussed how Marina would refer to Ortega’s son as her “4th child.” This is the normal hyperbole of our times, but I wonder if Ortega actually believed that this had a deeper emotional and financial meaning than was ever intended?

After so many years apart, why did she suddenly decide to bring her son to live with her? She was only making $500 a week and trying to provide an apartment, private schooling, etc in one of the most expensive cities in the world ! Did she have unreasonable expectations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/...she-found-her-children-slain-in-bathroom.html

When she went to Marina with her problems, she was offered an hour of cleaning a day to bring her salary to $600 a week. Not what she expected, if she believed that she and her son were like “family”...as in her culture.

Marina’s story about the miscarriage struck me as odd as well. She seemed to expect her babysitter to react with great sorrow or pity. But she knew the woman was being evicted from her apartment and beset with her own issues. Sad to say, but I doubt any of Marina’s problems would seem to Ortega as meaningful as her own insolvable mess.

Clearly, Ortega hates Marina Krim. I don’t know why there is any question of motive. Sadly, Ortega is now in a place where she gets three meals a day, a warm bed and has no responsibilities...and may even think her life is better.

She should get life in prison. I pray for continued healing for the Krim family.

Injustice Collectors/Grievance Collector are by nature very toxic. They are very toxic people.

 

[weedemout]

Ortega may be a “grievance collector” but she and Marina Krim seem an especially toxic combination of personalities. Back in the early days of this case, we discussed how Marina would refer to Ortega’s son as her “4th child.” This is the normal hyperbole of our times, but I wonder if Ortega actually believed that this had a deeper emotional and financial meaning than was ever intended?

After so many years apart, why did she suddenly decide to bring her son to live with her? She was only making $500 a week and trying to provide an apartment, private schooling, etc in one of the most expensive cities in the world ! Did she have unreasonable expectations?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/01/...she-found-her-children-slain-in-bathroom.html

When she went to Marina with her problems, she was offered an hour of cleaning a day to bring her salary to $600 a week. Not what she expected, if she believed that she and her son were like “family”...as in her culture.

Marina’s story about the miscarriage struck me as odd as well. She seemed to expect her babysitter to react with great sorrow or pity. But she knew the woman was being evicted from her apartment and beset with her own issues. Sad to say, but I doubt any of Marina’s problems would seem to Ortega as meaningful as her own insolvable mess.

Clearly, Ortega hates Marina Krim. I don’t know why there is any question of motive. Sadly, Ortega is now in a place where she gets three meals a day, a warm bed and has no responsibilities...and may even think her life is better.

She should get life in prison. I pray for continued healing for the Krim family.

Thank you for your post. I think people like to break it down to jealousy and resentment because it's easier to think of it in those terms and not think about the intersection of narcissism, classism and the effects those things can have on ones mental health. Because they feel like it makes excuses for the killer.

 

[YESorNO]

7 Heartbreaking Details From The Trial Of The Nanny Who Fatally Stabbed Two Children In Her Care

"...Prosecutors are certain there is enough evidence to prove she is guilty, though Ortega pleaded insanity.

“These are the undisputed facts in this case. And these are the facts and the evidence will prove to you beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant intentionally murdered Lulu and Leo Krim on Oct. 25, 2012,” the prosecutor said. “That she knew what she was doing when she killed them and that she knew what she was doing wrong,” the prosecutor said.

Here is everything you need to know about the case against the nanny who allegedly killed two children:...

5. Ortega resented Krim.

Prosecutors said that Ortega was driven to kill the children out of pure resentment.

“[She] resented Marina Krim for everything she was and everything she had,” Groves said. “She seethed that Marina would ask her to do additional work.”

Ortega had told police that Krim asked too much of her, according to prosecutors.

“I had to do everything and take care of the kids,” Ortega said. “I worked as a babysitter only, and she wanted me to do everything. She wanted five hours of cleaning every week.”..."


https://www.yourtango.com/201831131...ails-trial-nanny-murder-stabbed-krim-children
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[stmarysmead]

In a way, I wish the type of incarceration for Ortega...mental institution or prison...could have been mediated without putting the parents through this trial.

If Ortega hates Marina Krim, then Marina is probably correct that Ortega is enjoying watching her agony. Nothing is more telling than how she waited to hurt herself, until after she had the satisfaction of seeing Marina’s horror. Remember, they said Leo’s body was cold when they put him in the ambulance. She really sat there and waited.

Something about this trial just seems to have so little positive benefit for the family. It’s excruciating to make them relive it. Ortega will go one place or the other...does she even care? But, with this trial, she’s getting another opportunity to inflict her revenge on the Krims and she’s getting to watch their pain over days not minutes.

I wish the Krims could have been spared this.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Kevin and Marina Krim, the parents of children allegedly murdered by their nanny in Manhattan in 2012, have announced they are expecting another baby boy.

http://abc7ny.com/news/parents-of-c...-by-nyc-nanny-expecting-another-baby/1025296/

 

[JerseyGirl]

Trial continues today ....

http://abc7ny.com/trial-continues-for-nanny-accused-of-murdering-children/3176592/

 

[Angelo]

I have been following this trial via twitter. (hashtag #nannytrial)

Testimony today was horrific.

I do believe Ortega resented and disliked Marina. I agree with what Marina Krim said to Ortega in court on Friday.

“You’re evil!” she shouted. “You’re evil! And you like this. You’re getting pleasure.”

Testimony from today:

“I didn’t freak out,” the super said. “You’ve got to understand, I opened the door and I see somebody staring with the eyes of the devil holding a rag to her face. Her eyes were bugging. She’s staring right at me.”

The super ran out of the apartment and blocked the door so Ortega couldn’t leave. He told Det. Brandon Gore, the first cop to arrive at the scene, who also testified Monday, that “whatever is in there is evil.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/02/...other-rages-at-nanny-during-murder-trial.html

https://nypost.com/2018/03/05/killer-nanny-had-eyes-of-the-devil-after-slaughter-super/

 

[weedemout]

does anyone know if this is streaming live?

 

[YESorNO]

In the Trial of Manhattan Nanny Yoselyn Ortega, Brutality Is the Only Clear Takeaway

"On the third day of the trial of Yoselyn Ortega, the New York City nanny who killed two of her charges, the jury was instructed to inspect a photo of the bodies of Leo Krim, 2, and Lucia “Lulu” Krim, 6. As the picture was passed from person to person, a flash of red visible from the gallery, a juror’s lip began to wobble. She wiped her nose and pulled the neck of her sweater over her mouth, shaking her head. A woman beside her gently rubbed her arm...

The prosecution argued that Ortega waited to stab herself until Krim entered the room because she wanted to see her reaction...

In late 2012, two psychiatrists at NewYork-Presbyterian/Weill Cornell hospital found that Ortega had “major depressive disorder with psychotic features.” Mental health experts are expected to testify at length for both the defense and prosecution.

The New York Times described the arduous jury selection process for this case as “a kind of lens onto the different New Yorks”—those who can afford childcare and those who cannot, or who work in childcare themselves. Ortega, a naturalized American citizen from the Dominican Republic, had been facing financial difficulties;..."

https://jezebel.com/in-the-trial-of-manhattan-nanny-yoselyn-ortega-brutali-1823530183
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

weedemout

I haven't found a link to live streaming of this trial- no tweets from the courthouse either...

There is the Ytube on the opening statements tho' that was posted previously:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQwlFJpA050
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[HMSHood]

In a way, I wish the type of incarceration for Ortega...mental institution or prison...could have been mediated without putting the parents through this trial.

If Ortega hates Marina Krim, then Marina is probably correct that Ortega is enjoying watching her agony. Nothing is more telling than how she waited to hurt herself, until after she had the satisfaction of seeing Marina’s horror. Remember, they said Leo’s body was cold when they put him in the ambulance. She really sat there and waited.

Something about this trial just seems to have so little positive benefit for the family. It’s excruciating to make them relive it. Ortega will go one place or the other...does she even care? But, with this trial, she’s getting another opportunity to inflict her revenge on the Krims and she’s getting to watch their pain over days not minutes.

I wish the Krims could have been spared this.

Yoselyn Ortega loves misery and likes to spread it. Misery she created. Injustice collectors want everyone to suffer, which is no surprise with Ortega.

Elliot Rodger: A Psychotic Psychopath?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/keeping-kids-safe/201405/elliot-rodger-psychotic-psychopath

A similar dynamic occurred with several psychotic shooters in the form of a masochistic personality. This refers to having an extreme sensitivity to emotional pain, and holding onto and exaggerating one’s suffering. Though in other writings I have used the terms “injustice collector” and “masochism” interchangeably, further reflection suggests that though similar concepts, they have a different dynamic. Psychopathic shooters rise in anger in response to what they perceive as injustice — “how dare they!” In contrast, psychotic shooters sink in anguish in response to what they perceive as cruelty — “woe is me!”

Rodger’s personality was notable for the intensity of his envy and resentment. Like masochism and injustice collecting, envy and resentment are similar concepts but they perhaps can be differentiated between psychotic and psychopathic shooters. To make this point, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold will serve as examples. Both were aware of hierarchies of status, but they had different responses for different reasons. Harris, a psychopathic shooter, looked down on people and resented those who had status in the eyes of the world because he thought he deserved to have the highest status. Klebold, a psychotic shooter, looked up to people and envied those who had status. In other words, psychotic shooters recognized that their peers were above them; this resulted in envy. Psychopathic shooters, however, refused to acknowledge that anyone was above them; this resulted in resentment toward those who thought they had, or were seen by others as having, higher status.

The Enigma of Adam Lanza’s Mind and Motivations for Murder
https://schoolshooters.info/sites/default/files/lanza_enigma_1.1_0.pdf

In other shootings, envy appears to have been a significant motivation (Langman, 2015). Knowing how difficult his childhood was, perhaps Lanza envied children in general because in his eyes they were all happy and would be successful, whereas he was depressed and a failure. He may have sought to obliterate children who represented social success and who thus highlighted the extent of his own “defectiveness.”

The story of Cain is of particular interest not only because Cain was a murderer, but because Lanza, like many other psychotic school shooters, had a sibling who was much higher functioning than he was (Langman, 2015). Unlike Lanza, his brother, Ryan, “was socially well adjusted, one of the popular kids at Newtown High” (Lysiak, 2013, p.*22). Sibling rivalry and sibling envy were issues for many psychotic shooters (Langman, 2015). Though Lanza left no record of animosity towards Ryan, he broke off contact with him two years before the attack, suggesting a hostile attitude. Thus, there may have been two reasons for Lanza to identify with Cain — sibling rivalry and murder.

His suicidal thoughts may have been a result of hopelessness about himself and what the future would hold for him. In addition, the magnitude of these failures and deficits may have caused envy and rage against those whom he perceived as succeeding where he had failed.

Henceforth, why injustice collectors can be called injustice creators.

Her kind are often seen in jealous lovers (Jodi Arias), bullies (Lori Drew), mass killers/school shooters (Nikolas Cruz, Stephen Paddock, Elliot Rodger), and terrorists (Osama bin Laden).

 

[Francesca]

Catching up on this thread... my theory has always been that Ortega wanted to frame Marina for the murders. That Marina would be found alone in an empty apartment with three dead bodies, and that her perfect life and persona would be destroyed. That's part of the reason I think she waited for Marina before attacking herself - besides of course, the fact that she enjoyed the idea of seeing Marina suffer.
But Ortega didn't count on Marina stepping out and bringing back the doorman when she sensed something was wrong.
I hope she knows that the Krims have stayed true to themselves throughout their grief and that they have won the admiration of so many people through their Choosing Creativity project. She didn't destroy them, and she didn't destroy their reputation.

 

[HMSHood]

Catching up on this thread... my theory has always been that Ortega wanted to frame Marina for the murders. That Marina would be found alone in an empty apartment with three dead bodies, and that her perfect life and persona would be destroyed. That's part of the reason I think she waited for Marina before attacking herself - besides of course, the fact that she enjoyed the idea of seeing Marina suffer.
But Ortega didn't count on Marina stepping out and bringing back the doorman when she sensed something was wrong.
I hope she knows that the Krims have stayed true to themselves throughout their grief and that they have won the admiration of so many people through their Choosing Creativity project. She didn't destroy them, and she didn't destroy their reputation.

Yoselyn Ortega destroyed herself. She was consumed by envy and resentment.